Couch Lancing

[jros83]

selfserving OP [original post, not "overpowered"] is selferving

[Banzai!!!]

The point of lance is that it is longer then bayonet, so lance should have more range... But in this mode bayonet is a god weapon anyway.

So true but with all the lancer rage that featured in MM you aint going to find the lance getting any longer in this DLC im afraid I mean it was apparently considered so OP that in sunday LB's for MM it got banned lol

But looking back now before it got banned and to the incident that I believe got it banned from sunday LB's in MM I must say those were the glorius days 

[Talii]

Most infantry players shun the fact that lancers have  Insta-kill, unblockable offensive capablities, which I would understand, were it not becouse Couching was never Overpowered in MM, It was simply so that most Infantry players had recieved little or no training on how to effectivly counter Cavalry.

And about the Unblockable, Instant kill Attack, You can draw parallels to firing a musket. Of course, it has less accuaracy and Is not instant kill on long range, But then again, in order to couch someone, you need to get within a meter of the fellow.

[Pelgrane]

Lancers work perfect.

On horse they are devistating and hard to counter especially on foot.

Really?

They are easy kills vs. other horsemen (block down/cross the T), and they are easy kills on foot (side-shuffle, he is either forced to turn early and miss, or keep going and die). They are the worst cav choice there is right now.

A hussar with a lance on the other hand will mostly beat a hussar with a sword. The big nerf to lancers came via their bad mounts, not because the lance itself had many stat changes.

[Crayon]

Lancers are a mess now.
They went from gods of the battlefield to godawful.

Lances need to be longer or bring back blocking.

[Alma69]

I mostly kill people with one stab when galloping.And I don't remember any parameters being changed. Even the length of lance wasn't changed much ( it became much longer overall, but the length from hand to the top of the blade should be pretty much same.

It seams way much shorter now.
Seams like you guys dont know what are doing.

Lancers are a mess now.
They went from gods of the battlefield to godawful.

Lances need to be longer or bring back blocking.

This. Hundred times this.
I would gladly see overhead stab as well.

[A. Protokletos]

It is generally frowned upon to imply that a dev team "dont know what are doing" in their own subforum and in direct reply to a Moderator's post.
A simple fix would be to attack en masse using the element of surprise. Trail a group of infantry and wait until they are fighting someone else, then charge. At the scale the game is now, cavalry and artillery exist to support the infantry, not conduct independent operations. And most importantly, don't stop moving. You can't block, so your best bet would be to bowl right through the enemy, then circle around for another run like a fighter jet.

[dude24oak]

Blargalargalarg,
Lancers
Blargalargalarg,
Their perfectly fine
Blargalargalarg,
Just because you can't beat them doesn't make them OP
Blargalargalarg,
I beat them every time
Blargalargalarg,
Problem?

[Talii]

It is generally frowned upon to imply that a dev team "dont know what are doing" in their own subforum and in direct reply to a Moderator's post.
A simple fix would be to attack en masse using the element of surprise. Trail a group of infantry and wait until they are fighting someone else, then charge. At the scale the game is now, cavalry and artillery exist to support the infantry, not conduct independent operations. And most importantly, don't stop moving. You can't block, so your best bet would be to bowl right through the enemy, then circle around for another run like a fighter jet.

It's funny. I've been with a Cavalry regiment for 6-7 months now. In my Experience, acting like the Infantry's lapdog, to be sent at their will, is both bad, and annoying. Decent Cavalry, acting independent, can win rounds before the main battle is even commenced, by decimating Artillery, Cavalry and Skirmishers.

It would also appear that the length of a lance has been increased, but the distance from grip to metalpiece is still the same.
MM:


NW:

[Alma69]

Not good angle, but even here its looks for me like NW is shorter one. I mean from a grip to tip.

CAN I PLEASE GOD DAMN LANCE STATS?

It is generally frowned upon to imply that a dev team "dont know what are doing" in their own subforum and in direct reply to a Moderator's post.

Ouu my... sorry but it looks like they dont. Chaos in working? Lack of proper game tests? Who knows. They know... maybe.

[Evanovic]

Most infantry players shun the fact that lancers have  Insta-kill, unblockable offensive capablities, which I would understand, were it not becouse Couching was never Overpowered in MM, It was simply so that most Infantry players had recieved little or no training on how to effectivly counter Cavalry.

And about the Unblockable, Instant kill Attack, You can draw parallels to firing a musket. Of course, it has less accuaracy and Is not instant kill on long range, But then again, in order to couch someone, you need to get within a meter of the fellow.

This argument has already been covered in the past. Seeing as lancers are cavalry they are in direct competition with other cavalry. Other cavalry has little or no 'insta-kill' capabilities that can be used as readily and effectively as the couch. Because lancers are in direct competition with other cavalry it is illogical to compare their effectiveness vs infantry without considering other cavalry; that brings me on to state that the argument that 'lancers can be shot' is redundant as anything of significance, as lancers are just as likely to be shot as any other cavalry. If you're going to argue on a lancer vs infantry basis then you can't ignore other cavalry having similar, if not worse limitations than lancers; one of these worse limitations being the extremely close distance sword cavalry has to come within an infantryman to get a kill with his/her sword. The only way to can argue a case for lancers vs infantry is if you're claiming that lancers are far worse off against infantry than other cavalry or that cavalry in general is far worse off than infantry, both of which I believe not to be apparent at all.
 
EDITED during Kator's post.

[Kator Viridian]

Most infantry players shun the fact that lancers have  Insta-kill, unblockable offensive capablities, which I would understand, were it not becouse Couching was never Overpowered in MM, It was simply so that most Infantry players had recieved little or no training on how to effectivly counter Cavalry.

And about the Unblockable, Instant kill Attack, You can draw parallels to firing a musket. Of course, it has less accuaracy and Is not instant kill on long range, But then again, in order to couch someone, you need to get within a meter of the fellow.

This argument has already been covered in the past. Seeing as Lancers are cavalry they are in direct competition with other cavalry. Other cavalry has little or no 'insta-kill' capabilities that can be used as readily and effectively as the couch. The argument that 'lancers can be shot' is redundant as lancers are just as likely to be shot as any other cavalry. If you're going to argue on a lancer vs infantry basis then you can't ignore other cavalry having similar, if not worse limitations than lancers.

Evanovic what the lacers now lack in speed other cavalry make up for, including heavy cavalry ... insta-kills are quite a lot easier to get now with a sword at full pelt with a sword ... but the lance with thrusting on the other hands seems to be weaker even with a full charging thrust. I think the lancer actually needs the couch to compete with other cavlary and keep ontop of the game against infantry when it has a chance to ambush ... also note with lower speed the now increasing likelyhood to survive a couched lance ... i've done it twice already since the release of NW and find myself going "WTF???? ... I should be on the floor dead" as much as the lancer is probably going "Useless pole!!!".

[Pelgrane]

This argument has already been covered in the past. Seeing as lancers are cavalry they are in direct competition with other cavalry. Other cavalry has little or no 'insta-kill' capabilities that can be used as readily and effectively as the couch.

Couch is anything but effective. As soon as that animation goes on, you're dead. Anyone who's any good will sidestep it.

How do they perform vs. other cav - well, I was trading kill for kill vs. Disgruntld without even trying very much today, and he is one of the best lancers that ever rode an MM horse. I'd feel pretty confident taking even on Brick, given what I've seen today. They're only remotely dangerous when there's multiples of them, but that's true for any combat class.

The only way to can argue a case for lancers vs infantry is if you're claiming that lancers are far worse off against infantry than other cavalry or that cavalry in general is far worse off than infantry, both of which I believe not to be apparent at all.
 

Both are self-evidently true. Lancers have one neat trick (outreach an eager bayonet on a really slow spin) that's easily made up for by one of the worst mounts (fragile, lacking agility, AND slow), making them MORE likely to get shot than hussars. In addition, they cannot block either on horse or dismounted so any stoppage = death, making them worse than heavies. And the carabine/musketoon is a lance that outreaches lances, making them worse than dragoons.

Cavalry is also worse against infantry in general compared to MM, where it was already the weaker of the two. You can't seriously argue the reverse?

[Talii]

Most infantry players shun the fact that lancers have  Insta-kill, unblockable offensive capablities, which I would understand, were it not becouse Couching was never Overpowered in MM, It was simply so that most Infantry players had recieved little or no training on how to effectivly counter Cavalry.

And about the Unblockable, Instant kill Attack, You can draw parallels to firing a musket. Of course, it has less accuaracy and Is not instant kill on long range, But then again, in order to couch someone, you need to get within a meter of the fellow.

This argument has already been covered in the past. Seeing as lancers are cavalry they are in direct competition with other cavalry. Other cavalry has little or no 'insta-kill' capabilities that can be used as readily and effectively as the couch. Because lancers are in direct competition with other cavalry it is illogical to compare their effectiveness vs infantry without considering other cavalry; that brings me on to state that the argument that 'lancers can be shot' is redundant as anything of significance, as lancers are just as likely to be shot as any other cavalry. If you're going to argue on a lancer vs infantry basis then you can't ignore other cavalry having similar, if not worse limitations than lancers; one of these worse limitations being the extremely close distance sword cavalry has to come within an infantryman to get a kill with his/her sword. The only way to can argue a case for lancers vs infantry is if you're claiming that lancers are far worse off against infantry than other cavalry or that cavalry in general is far worse off than infantry, both of which I believe not to be apparent at all.
 
EDITED during Kator's post.

In Cavalry on Cavalry, where the speedbonus counts for both your speed and the one accelerating towards you, a sword slash will almost always kill an enemy, or his/hers horse. Really, even if your victim is stationary, your speedbonus will help you land 1-hit kills with swords.

[Bisounours]

I agree with Evanovic. Indeed, the lancers can be shot, but other cav units as well.

And I don't think other cav are better than lancers, in Cav vs Cav or Cav vs Inf.
The fact that you can't block with a lance made the game more interesting IMO.
Maybe lancers could have their stats increased slightly, though, because they're very bad in melee when they're on foot.