Author Topic: Some large Game suggestions  (Read 301 times)

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NightRanger

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Some large Game suggestions
« on: April 08, 2012, 06:22:18 PM »
I've been playing Mount & Blade for over 4 years. I really enjoy the improvements made by Warband and some of the MODs. I would like to suggest a few improvements though.

1. Instead of be granting a premade village be grant land and create your own Village that you can improve to a castle or town.

2. The ability to die or to kill Lords, I hate having to only be able to lock up my enemy and continually face them.

3. Allow the birth of children and allow them to grow. I know warband allows you to marry but if you could have lords having children you wouldn't be too worried about the loss of a couple of lords if their children rise up to avenge them and reclaim their lands or whatever.

4. Allow you to chose how to build a castle or town. It doesn't have to be as complex as per say stronghold. But maybe something more along the lines of Lords of the Realm II they had premade designs and you had to get the materials together and the gold to build them.

5. Instead of have premade sieges(I know others have discussed this) Make it so you have to choose what equipment you want to assault a castle like Battering rams, Siege Towers, or Ladders.

6. Allow it so you can make your own trade caravan to make you money and trade routes so you don't have to run all around the board doing trades. Like hiring a Caravan master or a merchant to lead it or even one of your companions.

Well these are just some of them. I look forward to playing this game for a long time and any expansions.

KuroiNekouPL

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 06:23:50 PM »
All of those were suggested before. Many, many times. :roll:

Troublesome_bandit

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 04:34:35 PM »
Though my suggestion is completely different than of the OP, I didn't want to make a new thread, since the title says it all.

This suggestion of mine, only concers Warband Multiplayer gameplay and balance. Most of them probably suggested in other topics as always, but if more people state the same thing, it would probably be a good bet.

1. Faction balance: Generally its mostly about some weapons that make some imbalance to the game. First of all is the great lance, which is only avaible to the swadians, and gives them an advantage in cavarly battle and also its harder to counter them with other anti cavarly weaponry. It's not undefetable but makes them stronger while not having any real drawback; the lower speed is not a big deal (comparing to "simple" lances), almost nothing since in cavarly battle it is about that one thrust rather than fencing 10 strikes back and forth.
And its prize can be cashed out with the initial standard non custom starting money, right the way, so its definietly not the high end expensive option. (As none of the weapons are... this is only true for armors.)
The simpliest way to solve this is, to give every faction a great lance option. The more complex way would be to fully revise the great lance.*

An other weapon is the great long axe, only avaible to the nords. This weapon is the less of an issue as I got more experinced in melee and scored some kill against "baseballers" with a short sword. Its not coinsidental why I call it "baseballer" as this weapon has the option to become two handed instead of polearm and a character wielding it (wierding it actually) look like handling a huge baseball with each swing chambered. While this looks ridiclous it also affects the weapon in very broken, unrealistic way; its cutting damage applies to the wooden shaft just like if it were a fully edged and sharped blade! And gives a huge weapon range which the player can swing in any mili seconds, with unreal speed.
The complete removal of the two handed option of a clearly polearm type weapon would simply do the trick. (Actually its more useful in some sort.) Meanwhile ensuring that all pole weapons doesn't cut with theri shafts.

Third thing is the Khergits missing infantry class. The Khergit lancer does the trick in some sort, but it wouldn't be that hard to make an infantry class on the same basis of other factions, would it?

2. Ranged over melee: The whole armament of ranged weaponry (bows, crossbows and throwing) seems to reload faster than is should, while the whole movement speed of melee units (both attacks and infantry movement) seems to be slower than is should be, especially when it comes to stairs, builded areas (castles) or hills.
This has caused that an archer can shoot with a minimum of twice a melee infantry while he is coming up on the stairs being only 3-4 m away from the archer. Things just get worse when you don't have a shield but even then it doesn't give a full "active" coverage and the shielder may be wounded if getting shot from the front!

For cavarly the ranged weapons become very frustrating option of counter. No matter if you have a shield a range unit can calmly await a cavarly approaching and shoot him in a head before the lance connects into the scum. One can say the why don't you actively raise your shield, but then how to kill the archer if you don't attack him?
The couched lance suffers the same thing, no matter the character holds his shield while couching his lance at the same time, he still can be hit with ranged weapon frontally! (Also if I'm not mistaken the couched lance get disrupted if the "passive" shield takes a hit, further denying the cavarly charge in a VERY unrealistic way.)

One of the most annoying problem is the shooting into melee fight. This completely ruins the greatest part of Mount & blade. You are tighted up in a fierce close combat and are about to win it, when suddenly you got shot and die. (Even worse when your teammate landed it.) It has connection to the statements above: the infantry movement is too slow, thus making them very predictable target, while the ranged weapons reload too fast, and so can be fired quickly, increasing the chance to finish off the melee fighter before he can win the combat.
I don't mind if I get headshotted in a sudden moment when simply walking / running, or riding somewhere, but it is very dissapointing when I "dance around" my foe in melee combat, trying to be completely unpredictable and most of it I got killed by ranged weaponry instead of melee one... (This one stands for AI in singleplayer aswell!)

Andressing this I suggest that the complete set of ranged weaponry reload time shall be decreased from the veteran / Legolas level to an average decent archer level.
For infantry idk what could be done with the raw infantry movement speed as it is very largely scaling with the weight of equipment, thus if you increase it, slightly equipped guys will run with horses. But if we look into speed modifiers, like hills, stairs, so all steep ground, I think they should less affect infantry, or there should be a level where there are almost no effect while overstepping that level a huge movement speed decreasment would start. This could do the work for horses, so that little bumps in the terrain wouldn't make a difference, but taking a high ground definietly would. (Instead of slowing back randomly when walking on a bit steepy terrain...)

3. Server side stuff Set Melee and Ranged friendly fire to Yes, and damage to teammate 0%, damage to self 100%.
Most fair.
Some other games uses similar methods.
Solves the zergling overwhelming situtation thus giving chance to players who are fighting outnumbered to do something even if not surviving at all. (The most epic melee part of M&B I think.)
Don't even think any other settings to force players, especially newbies to NOT ATTACK if there are risks hitting friendly troop. So forget friendly fire hurting friendlies and / or not doing 100% dmg.

*Great lance in a different way: Increase it's lenght, so that only a pike could outrange it (If we are at it, give pike to every faction infantry class, including the Khergit :D ). Remove it's ability to attack. But it can still be couched, which is the point! Voilá! We now share a weapon that has great opportunities and strenghts while having some disadvantage, making "simple" lances a tactical choice, even if great lances are also avaible to buy.
Note that this also requires the removal of "shield stun" after connecting a successful couched lance hit, making the knight completely vulnerable!!!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 04:44:40 PM by Troublesome_bandit »

KuroiNekouPL

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2012, 05:01:03 PM »
I disagree with you.
1. The only good way to balance great lance would be in making it one time use weapon. You kill one enemy and it breaks. Or eventually, inability to hide it. When you want to take sword, you have to drop your lance.
Giving every faction a great lance would be very "unrealistic" and boring. Factions are supposed to be different from each other.

2. ranged units are fine. They lack melee skills, so they must have something to be good at. If you make them shoot slower, and infantry move faster then they will be under powered.
Also I see no reason to make infantry faster, they are ok as they are.

Troublesome_bandit

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2012, 05:27:31 PM »
KuroiNekouPL: A one time used great lance would be far too limited though real in some sort, (well idk... they shouldn't always break by one hit) but with the inability to "hide" it, and the players are forced to drop it to change weapons is good, I like that idea. So we are actually agreed that there could be done something about only swadians having great lance? :)

How ranged units lack melee skills? Are there single player proficiency and stuff built in the multiplayer classes, differing them? I only thought this was only stood for horses, so that non-cavarly class can only ride saddle horse. Yet if there are different built-in skills I haven't noticed them, I could fight in melee with the same efficiency with ranged class too. Only the armor and weaponry made a difference, but I can always loot the battlefield for the latter. ;)
In range combat, range units are fine. My problem is that they often interact into "others" melee combat with quite high efficiency, which is very frustrating, especially beacuse the latter. If it would be around 50-50% wheter I hit the friendly unit or the enemy, it would be a lot better, but currently its 20-80% chance to hit enemy unit engaged in close combat.

KuroiNekouPL

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 08:09:23 PM »
I'd like to notice, that ranged units are supposed to be support for infantry, so the fact, that they interfere in ones fights is just fine. Well, as long, as its done by people who think instead of just pursuing frags. Battlefield is not a place for duels, so teamplay is an important part of game, people should remember about it.

brognar

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 02:53:13 AM »
The great lance isn't at all overpowered, and neither are ranged weapons. The great lance is a niche weapon that can only be useful in certain situations and is easily countered by anyone who actually brought a spear with them (more spears, less tears).

For ranged weapons, bring a shield or just zig-zag. 

poop poop poop

Federick421

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 03:09:17 AM »
I think the Rhodoks should be overhauled so that their infantry are spilt between two lines, one is board shield and hammer equipped troops who are balanced and the other lines are pole armed troops that eventually end up with pikemen who are the counter to heavy cavalry

Troublesome_bandit

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 07:00:33 PM »
KuroiNekouPL: Yes thats right, it's a game mechanic atm for having classes and each has a role, and archer class in particular has a role to interfere in melee combat. This is what I started to argue with as this happening many time and usually decides the result of that combat. (not just "duel" but even multiple combatants clash.) So as a player you get into the fight against enemy forces and many times you just get hit by ranged attack from either enemy or friendly one afar, which is definietly frustrating. This is a large scale game design, thats why I suggested to change it somehow, as it is also unrealistic to shoot into close combat AND pick out enemy units with quite high effeciency. Archers are meant to take out enemies that are not engaged in a fight, in other words lonely targets. (even if we talk about an entire company of men.). Of course there are some circumstances when the archer can pick the enemy easily without risk, shooting his teammate, but those are rare, and environment specific.

Brognar: Two similar horsemen battling against each other. One of them having a great lance, the other dont. At similar player skill, the great lancer has far more chance to win. Also the longer weapon reach gives more chance to the great lancer to fight back against anti cavarly armed units like polearm. Probably the polearmer is in better situtation, but I saw sometimes the great lancer taking down pikemen riding to the left while thrusting to the right.
As I mentioned the great lancer can be defeated, but the weapon is far more stronger than other lance types than it should be, thus powering the only faction, where it is avaible.
For ranged weapons, the problem is not the general "overpowered" state. The problem is more complex as more small details accumulation cause it; slow and a bit cumbersome movement, fast reloading speed for ranged weapons. Dogding is very limited, the jump action hardly works or even makes the situation worse. Some kind of fast leaning, or a fast crouching could be a real help.
The only useful choiches atm are those, which you mentioned: shield and zig-zag. Shield is fine for most of the time, it only "fails" you when you are engaged in melee combat and cannot direct your block against the ranged attack...
For zig-zag, it works fine until you get around medium range and start getting injured as you take hits and cannot charge up to the enemy but slowly crawl into while he shoots you two-three times or more.

So all in all, I don't mind having powerful ranged units that tear apart everyone. (I also play with archers too) I don't mind getting a headshot in a sudden when just walking somewhere. The problem is when I'm crowded in melee, I still remain an almost clear target, no matter how many guys hack n slash around, AND when I'm about to rush up to force melee combat against a ranged unit I just keep receving too many shots from almost no distance.

groopo

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Re: Some large Game suggestions
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 10:00:28 PM »
Idk about you guys, but a regular spear can outreach a great lance if used with a shield