Poll

Should Brazil get a rematch against Poland?

Yes! Justice!
104 (73.8%)
No! Cruelty!
37 (26.2%)

Total Members Voted: 137

Author Topic: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!  (Read 4544 times)

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Orion

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Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« on: March 05, 2012, 08:15:14 AM »
Poland 20 - 0 Brazil

(click to show/hide)

This should not be allowed! No team should have to play at such a disadvantage for an entire match. Brazil could not use the Team_USA server (located in New York) because Canada and France were already playing their match at the same time. However, there are other servers and they were not used. The match was played entirely on an EU server.

Give them a fair shot! It's a tournament, for ****'s sake! We're supposed to determine who's best, not who can beat up a team crippled by horrendous lag!

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Goker

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 08:19:47 AM »
Why wasn't the server arranged before the match time though? I also want the game to be fair, but maybe Team Brazil should have asked for an event admin and get it postponed? Shouldn't have played it at all.
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dzioOb

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 09:28:36 AM »
Where something happened, there must be AMERICAN GUY ORION, ALWAYS! or any other amrican guy... tha's so annoying... Why Brazil Captain don't have any problems? Because they know the situation. There wasn't any server, but they obligate to get one located in USA. We are waiting for them something about 40-50 minutes. (Only because our good will.) There wasn't anyone after these time. So we decide to play first map on EU server and the second on US, cause they said they will get it after first map. We agreed with that. After first map there wasn't able US server also... Again we are waiting something like 30-40 minutes, in fact there is a rule, that switching map time should last 5 minutes. So as you can see there is not our fault. Of course, it wasn't fair.. but, save our private time, cause we are living also as a normal people.

Orion

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 09:41:54 AM »
Where something happened, there must be AMERICAN GUY ORION, ALWAYS! or any other amrican guy... tha's so annoying...

I fail to see how my nationality has anything to do with it, but please, be irrelevant. Nobody here was blaming you or your team.

It's not bad enough in principle for a match to be allowed where one team is needlessly unreasonably disadvantaged? If you had to play the US team entirely on a US server, would you be content to let the results stand? Especially when there are other servers that could have been used? At the time the match was played, I'm certain captain lust/M could have provided Beast Coast. A central US server wouldn't have been absolutely terrible, and there are more of those to pick from. A more ideal server could have been found, and should have been found, because the results as they stand mean nothing.

Be reasonable, nobody can play Warband at 230+ ping. Don't say they should stand because you want to "save your private time." You signed up for a tournament, made the commitment, and you're worried it may inconvenience you to play it right? Why did you sign up in the first place? :|

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dzioOb

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 10:15:53 AM »
I was talking with Alex and Lust about server and THERE WASN'T ANYONE... They can confirm that if you want. It's not like we are doing nothing and let the Brazillian solved it on their own... no, we are trying to help them to get this server. We even was on your Team_USA server, but then somebody came and told us to leave cause there is a match. And don't speak to me about commitments,(We have our server to play on it) cause if you sign up, it should be your business to get as many official servers from US/BR/CAN as possible for this tournament. Not the one for 3 nations...


Oh, and back to your nationality... You have right, it was too offensive from my sight, and sorry for that, but you always find some problems in matches, even if it's not your :P And definitely in your matches, especially when you lost :P
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 10:24:28 AM by dzioOb »

Maynd

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 10:39:51 AM »
What I saw here was poor lack of organization. If there wasn't a NA server where the match could be done, both teams should reschedule it, having the admins/ref coordinating the situation.
That match was pure BS, taking away all the fun of it. I've been calling some attention to this issue over and over again, this would happen sooner or later and drama would pop out eventually.

@DzioOb, Team Poland did what they had to, no one its telling that it is your fault.
"but you always find some problems in matches, even if it's not your "
I don't see how can this be an issue, you believe that if a situation is somehow wrong you should just shut up?

Also, the rules are clear, match should have been played on a NA server, therefore the result its invalid.

Edit: it seem to be valide according to the rules, but far from being a fair and equal situation.
(click to show/hide)

I can also spot some lack of experience from the Brazilian captain, they should get all type of help they could. When I spoke to him he said its was normal for them to play with those pings since they are used to it, he didn't raised any concern or even tried to provide a fair server situation. Basically, the Brazilian team did nothing to improve the situation, they are ok with it. There is bunch of few people concerned with this issue, like me and Marnid but we have nothing to do with this...so I really would like to see the Brazilian captain standing out  for his team instead of random people.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 10:53:17 AM by Maynd »

Orion

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 11:38:00 AM »
but you always find some problems in matches, even if it's not your :P And definitely in your matches, especially when you lost :P

I was only here for NC2010, and only one of our matches had a problem. The other team used a referee not from their nation as a sub. :P

Personally, I think that - regardless of how the teams "feel about it" - a match should have to be played under the best possible conditions. When it's obvious to any third party that a match was not played fairly (for whatever reason), it makes one question the validity of the tournament results as a whole. How many other matches are played like this? Why is this match considered legitimate if the others are supposedly held to a higher standard? Is this an exception, or is the tournament consistently inconsistent in terms of match quality?

I run a seasonal North American ladder, and I know it's important for matches to be played as fairly as possible at all times. I've had matches replayed because 1/3rd of a team had unreasonably high pings. The outcome of the replay was completely different from the original match. Was it a popular decision? Not really, but the rematch was played under better circumstances and thus its results were more accurate. I'm not saying Poland wouldn't win in a rematch against Brazil, but Brazil stands a better chance of winning some rounds if they could play under better conditions.

If Alex agrees, I'm completely willing to offer Team_USA for a rematch. I'll go so far as to schedule around your rematch, so that it can be played without complications. I could also help you guys get alternate servers (such as Balion War Room or Central Wappaw) if necessary.

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BaronDeMoroz

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 12:40:31 PM »
1. Fairness and justice is good. But I want first of all, the captain of the Brazilian team the opinion in this thread.

2. Allowing you to replay the match, we create a precedent, which did not exist before. The solution should be well thought out and not to violate existing rules no matter how it is.

3. I recall that was violated not only the rule choice for a game server from a remote country.

Quote
In the event of a home/away system being in place, the advised system to use is a 4-4-4-4 system; this would mean that a team plays four rounds on an away server as the map 'defenders' (second spawn), then plays four rounds on a home server as the map 'attackers' (first spawn), then plays four rounds on an away server as the next map's 'defenders' and finally plays four more rounds on a home server as the map's 'attackers'. If both teams agree, they may deviate from this system.

Quote
No servers outside of Europe/North America will be used. Against Brazil, more Western-European countries might be able to use an NA server as a middle-ground, I'd expect for teams such as Poland, Turkey and Russia etc. a UK/France server will have to be used.

 It was also violated a rule governing the time break between round legs.

Quote
A two-minute break between four-round sets for substitutions and such is officially sanctioned by the rules and if either team requests one, the other team must let them have it. This break is allowed to continue for two minutes, if it extends past this, either team may request that the match re-commence. A team which refuses to begin after these two minutes will face sanctions. Any break longer than five minutes is purely a courtesy from one team to the other. If you feel that you're likely to have problems with this rule in your match, you are advised to request an event admin to referee the match.

Quote
There wasn't any server, but they obligate to get one located in USA. We are waiting for them something about 40-50 minutes. (Only because our good will.) There wasn't anyone after these time. So we decide to play first map on EU server and the second on US, cause they said they will get it after first map. We agreed with that. After first map there wasn't able US server also... Again we are waiting something like 30-40 minutes, in fact there is a rule, that switching map time should last 5 minutes. So as you can see there is not our fault. Of course, it wasn't fair.. but, save our private time, cause we are living also as a normal people.

Thus we see that both teams have suffered.

There are official tournament judges. And I think that they should give opinion on the matter.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,213348.0.html

Voting is good. But we have not democracy, it is an official tournament.
If all questions were decided by voting. I already know the winner:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,216643.0.html

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Balion Zero

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 12:51:03 PM »
I agree with marnid. I am willing and going to work with Brasil captain to explain to him more of how NC is and etc. I am part brasilian, I speak, write, and read portuguese. ( yay dual citizenship. Does that may wonder I was born and reside in the us. ).

BaronDeMoroz

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 01:00:49 PM »
I agree that the match should be replayed. But this decision should take the judge. Do not we.

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pro.faiL

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2012, 01:09:34 PM »
(click to show/hide)
Leave Floms alone, it's obvious he's just used to making microscopic movements with his hands.
finally i get sota. hes shit. lol

ProjectAngel

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2012, 01:10:38 PM »
They should play again.

Blackitt

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2012, 02:06:07 PM »
I'm ok with this after all matches. But i got only one request Orion would be there all the time watching match as spec , i won't WASTE my time alone. Because this home away matches are always uneven and you will never know who is better. Non-EU teams part in all ncups wasting both sides time ;/

Alex_C

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2012, 02:18:40 PM »
The first I - and presumably any event admin - heard of this match was yesterday evening, when apparently the teams had tried to last-minute book Team_USA even though it was already in use. There were also no other servers available for use (Beast Coast is 14 slots, 8 v 8  tournament). I managed to squeeze the teams in to use Team_USA for some time, and was later informed by Zero (about 40mins-1hour later) that they still hadn't begun their match there, and were just standing around tking.

One of the teams should have contacted an event admin well before yesterday, and they certainly should have been booking servers in advance.

Regardless, Brazil is offered the opportunity for a re-match, with a dead-line extended till the end of the group stage should they choose to take it. If they don't manage to get the server choice right in any future matches however, it's their own problem.

Chaingun

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Re: Save Brazil! Promote Fair Play!
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2012, 02:40:21 PM »
I'm not expecting a much different result BTW, Poland has a bad ass team.
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