Proposition Regarding match size and Roster

[blak]

8v8 opens things up enough for a large variation in tactics yet is small enough to make a TK or lack of awareness in a situation costly...I believe it is a good and balanced format.

My opinion

[LordHasek]

Everyone, I think I have the perfect solution to this situation.

What we'll do is make it so that a country with less skilled players will be able to field more of them in every battle. This will mean that in every battle against a better country, one side will feel like they are the Spartans and the leader is actually Leonidas. This will increase how epic battles are because everyone will either be a Spartan or an Immortal, and we all know how British bad ass their teeth are by being filed to points. Also, this will be very balanced because we know that some countries don't have a lot of good players. Instead, these countries can just get a lot of bad players together and have an equal shot at winning.

I don't see why anyone would disagree with making the Nation's Cup more epic by refusing to let people be Spartans. Furthermore, the Spartans will have to use lots of tactics to win because you can't just send people to every corner of the map. Instead, you'll really have to work together as a tightly knit group of elite black ops commandos in order to win each round. Also, the Immortals will have to coordinate together in order to beat the super elite Spartans which further increases the amount of tactics involved. What I am saying is that by going to this format we will have a super epic tournament where lots and lots of elite special forces tactics are needed to win. This is on the heart of LES LordHasek and I really feel if you all look deep into your souls you know that I am right.

[Killfacer]

Was that supposed to be funny? I'm genuinely interested.

(edit) I kinda feel that maybe instead of writing something incomprehensible and presumably sarcastic, you should write your opinion.

[LordHasek]

Was that supposed to be funny? I'm genuinely interested.

(edit) I kinda feel that maybe instead of writing something incomprehensible and presumably sarcastic, you should write your opinion.

Gulatr is wrong. His arguments are so shaky that they can easily be parodied to a ridiculous degree. Adding more people just to make something more "epic" is ridiculous. Show me tactics that work at 10 vs. 10 which are impossible at 8 vs. 8. Gulatr is asserting 10vs10 has some inherent superiority to 8vs8 without presenting any examples or evidence as to why this is the case. As such, I posted an equally ludicrous response lacking the same critical thinking as Gulatr's original post.

[Orion]

It's entirely comprehensible, and it's mostly a joke on one of the higher-end American duelists (conveniently, his name is Leonidas). Quite the character.

Anyway, back to the topic. Tactics are entirely viable on a 6v6 scale. It's also more important to build your team in such a way that everyone can be flexible and fill at least two roles. I've personally played all three classes in scrims with my clan, and the team my clan usually brings to scrims consists of players that can play two roles. It's essential to have flexible players for the sake of tactics on that scale, because you cannot field a team of one-dimensional specialists. A change in your opponent's composition could render some of your players worthless in that situation. You need to know how to adapt your team's balance to defeat your opponent's.

Long story short, tactics are present at smaller scales, they just differ from tactics at larger scales (naturally).

[Z3ro]

Marnid it might be hard for US clans to gather 10 players, but I doubt it can be hard for a Nations Cup level with the cream of the crop of each US clan. If it is hard for a 300 millions inhabitants country, what about Spain (40 millions) Holland (dunno) or Poland (40 millions)?

I agree with Gultar, but at later stage of competition, once we have half of teams eliminated (almost always the small countries) we can imagine that the qualified teams can field 2  more players without having roster problems, or decreasing their average skill level by much.

This made me laugh alittle, so what your trying to say is that we have 300 million  inhabitants and that has to due with the amount of players we can field ? You got to be shitting me man, look at the player base in warband not actual country inhabitants. It will be hard for USA to field players due to us having to probably play matchs at 19 gmt or something like that. 19 gmt = 14 est = 13 cst = 11 pst. Thats very early if you ask me to be able to field a lot of players. But continue this is amusing to read.

[Cybran]

Marnid it might be hard for US clans to gather 10 players, but I doubt it can be hard for a Nations Cup level with the cream of the crop of each US clan. If it is hard for a 300 millions inhabitants country, what about Spain (40 millions) Holland (dunno) or Poland (40 millions)?

I agree with Gultar, but at later stage of competition, once we have half of teams eliminated (almost always the small countries) we can imagine that the qualified teams can field 2  more players without having roster problems, or decreasing their average skill level by much.

This made me laugh alittle, so what your trying to say is that we have 300 million  inhabitants and that has to due with the amount of players we can field ? You got to be shitting me man, look at the player base in warband not actual country inhabitants. It will be hard for USA to field players due to us having to probably play matchs at 19 gmt or something like that. 19 gmt = 14 est = 13 cst = 11 pst. Thats very early if you ask me to be able to field a lot of players. But continue this is amusing to read.

Depends on the day when you play it, if we play let's say at 20 gmt on sunday it shouldn't be that bad.

[Killfacer]

I kind of agree with the yanks. I don't think it's fair to raise it to 10v10. I know it's difficult for Russia with the amount of players they have but without the minimum it's damn hard for some countries. As long as teams are encouraged to play as many players as they can up to 16, then it will have to do. Perhaps raising the maximum to 18 could be done without risking anyone though.

[Gulatr]

I played quite a bit of Warband, and I do know what I am talking about, if you do not agree with my proposition that is fine, but do share your own arguments to support as I did. My proposition has supporters as well as people that disagree, I have no problem with people disagreeing with my point of view, but please keep it civil.

This matter should be raised for a vote by the captains of NC, Alex to your consideration.

[arsenic_vengeur]

Marnid it might be hard for US clans to gather 10 players, but I doubt it can be hard for a Nations Cup level with the cream of the crop of each US clan. If it is hard for a 300 millions inhabitants country, what about Spain (40 millions) Holland (dunno) or Poland (40 millions)?

I agree with Gultar, but at later stage of competition, once we have half of teams eliminated (almost always the small countries) we can imagine that the qualified teams can field 2  more players without having roster problems, or decreasing their average skill level by much.

This made me laugh alittle, so what your trying to say is that we have 300 million  inhabitants and that has to due with the amount of players we can field ? You got to be shitting me man, look at the player base in warband not actual country inhabitants. It will be hard for USA to field players due to us having to probably play matchs at 19 gmt or something like that. 19 gmt = 14 est = 13 cst = 11 pst. Thats very early if you ask me to be able to field a lot of players. But continue this is amusing to read.

Depends on the day when you play it, if we play let's say at 20 gmt on sunday it shouldn't be that bad.

Yeah, weekend afternoons (USA time) seem the best for US team. And Z3ro there is no point in saying that you cant gather 10 players because of time difference between east and west coast. Alright I know there is much less players in US (300 millions inhabitants) than UE (350 million inhabitants) because the game is not famous on your side of the ocean, but I doubt you dont have a basis of 30-40 active players to pick from.

[Z3ro]

Marnid it might be hard for US clans to gather 10 players, but I doubt it can be hard for a Nations Cup level with the cream of the crop of each US clan. If it is hard for a 300 millions inhabitants country, what about Spain (40 millions) Holland (dunno) or Poland (40 millions)?

I agree with Gultar, but at later stage of competition, once we have half of teams eliminated (almost always the small countries) we can imagine that the qualified teams can field 2  more players without having roster problems, or decreasing their average skill level by much.

This made me laugh alittle, so what your trying to say is that we have 300 million  inhabitants and that has to due with the amount of players we can field ? You got to be shitting me man, look at the player base in warband not actual country inhabitants. It will be hard for USA to field players due to us having to probably play matchs at 19 gmt or something like that. 19 gmt = 14 est = 13 cst = 11 pst. Thats very early if you ask me to be able to field a lot of players. But continue this is amusing to read.

Depends on the day when you play it, if we play let's say at 20 gmt on sunday it shouldn't be that bad.

Yeah, weekend afternoons (USA time) seem the best for US team. And Z3ro there is no point in saying that you cant gather 10 players because of time difference between east and west coast. Alright I know there is much less players in US (300 millions inhabitants) than UE (350 million inhabitants) because the game is not famous on your side of the ocean, but I doubt you dont have a basis of 30-40 active players to pick from.

We do, but are they Nations Cup level of players ? I would say no but maybe in eu you guys got that. But I can say in NA it will be hard if you ask me. Time difference does play a little effect on how many people show up too.

[Maynd]

Their point its pretty simple...Its hard for the Americans to fill 10 players in order to play against EU teams because of the time difference + their internal East/West coast time difference also.

We normally play around 18:00/19:00 GMT, its 13:00/14:00 for them. Are we Europeans able to field a team with 10 guys at 13:00/14:00? I cant and I believe most of the other Nations cant as well.
Even if USA moved the match to 18:00/19:00 according their time zone, it would be 23:00/00:00 for EU players. Again, are we Europeans able to field a team with 10 guys at 23:00/00:00? I cant and I believe most of the other Nations cant as well, maybe on the weekend but its hard.

Having this in mind I believe that 8 vs 8 its easier to handle for them and also for other Nations with a small community's, like Portugal. Raising the player number to 10 its creating more difficulties to this small teams and after all bigger Nations wont suffer as much with this change has we do.

[sammac]

Sorry but...

If the size was increased to 10v10 and the roster was proportionaly increased, the only difference to the Americans would be... having a larger and worse selection of players(less available @ dodgy hours of the day) not that much of a problem for you. Although I would support 10-a-side, I understand this would be not be possible for smaller countries and their inclusion is more important(imo).

[pro.faiL]

I'd prefer 8v8.

[Rhade]

Sorry but...

If the size was increased to 10v10 and the roster was proportionaly increased, the only difference to the Americans would be... having a larger and worse selection of players(less available @ dodgy hours of the day) not that much of a problem for you. Although I would support 10-a-side, I understand this would be not be possible for smaller countries and their inclusion is more important(imo).

Again -- There's no valid reason to justify moving it to 10v10, or 12v12, or 50v50. The status quo in NA is 6v6, but we understand we're coming into a European tournament so we must accept the way you guys play -- however, I'm led to believe that the ENL has 8v8 matches? There's literally no reason to further convolude matches with more unnecessary bodies because some people want it to be more "epic." If you want to watch epic fight scenes, go watch 300 or Troy, because I'm not here to watch, I'm here to compete, and adding bodies does nothing to further that end other than add headaches.