Author Topic: The Aleph  (Read 2198 times)

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xenoargh

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The Aleph
« on: January 15, 2012, 09:26:04 AM »
Leonardo's Aleph

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Still WIP; open the spoiler for backstory and big pictures.

Dorrin

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 04:57:10 PM »
Neat new toy.. Will we get to drive one? Or is it meant to be more like a hired soldier?

Marmz

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 08:03:37 PM »
Oh wow. I like!
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Epicrules

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 07:22:48 AM »
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You weren't kidding about those walking cannons, were you? ._.

I suppose this is the end to hand-cannons as we know them :/
James, there is no question you use Smithy-Seeking Ammunition (SSA).  That Carbine has never failed to hit me right in the face as you're going full speed on horseback.
Epicrules your avatar hurts my mind >.<

Hallegra

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 08:44:00 AM »
How would this work? I mean, in terms of vs. cannon troops? What would it have over a regular guy with a cannon or w/e?
And for God's sake if a horse is just milling about don't shoot it. It had hope, it had dreams. I used to ride this bay who aspired to play the role of Sarah Jessica Parker in her documentary.

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trueten

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 06:54:56 PM »
I'd really like to see its' walking animation.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 08:20:07 PM by trueten »

Specialist

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 08:04:24 PM »
Is this a troop? A prop? I mean, how do you plan to make it work Xeno?

Sayd Ûthman

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 10:09:24 PM »
jaw dropping stuff, seems like it's properly animatied/rigged whatever... i guess it's a new race ? or an armor ?

Epicrules

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 10:15:10 PM »
It's the new walking cannon idea meant to replace hand cannons. :/
James, there is no question you use Smithy-Seeking Ammunition (SSA).  That Carbine has never failed to hit me right in the face as you're going full speed on horseback.
Epicrules your avatar hurts my mind >.<

nilloc93

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 11:07:24 PM »
still dislike this  :evil:
Kinda seems a bit misleading to label this mod (B) for both Multi and Single player if it doesn't do multiplayer yet.

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Hallegra

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 11:32:24 PM »
Personally, I feel like this would take away from the general feel of B&S, kind of like adding tanks into modern warfare. People tend to not notice anything but the tanks... So if there were a vote as to whether or not to add this, I'd have to vote no...
And for God's sake if a horse is just milling about don't shoot it. It had hope, it had dreams. I used to ride this bay who aspired to play the role of Sarah Jessica Parker in her documentary.

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Caba`drin

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 01:46:38 AM »
In xeno I trust.



Epicrules

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 03:16:17 AM »
As much as we would all love giant walking cannons- mayhaps keeping the hand cannons as well would be nice? ._. They're really... like, attached to us. That would be like taking away our Mourn bows.
James, there is no question you use Smithy-Seeking Ammunition (SSA).  That Carbine has never failed to hit me right in the face as you're going full speed on horseback.
Epicrules your avatar hurts my mind >.<

xenoargh

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 03:53:31 AM »
Well, it's a tricky game-design issue, but usually it all works out in the end. 

There are already so many, erm, experimental things in this build that adding one more controversial nugget to the pile doesn't seem too dangerous.  I mean, wait until people get to see what Lord armies are like now that they aren't just giant waves of fodder, but are mirrors of what players can build, albeit dumber and with less variety  :lol:

At worst, nobody likes it and everybody quits playing it; oh well, it was a good run while it lasted :-)

The issue at hand is that cannons, at least the high-explosive variety, have remained one of the sore points in the game design; they're both not powerful enough in the hands of the AI in most of the scenarios they were designed for, yet very powerful in the hands of players.  They are also one of the few reliable ways to steamroller the Kingdoms once one passes into this period of gameplay.

It irks me that a lot of high-end play basically comes down to scenarios where seeking a field engagement is basically impractical, if not entirely impossible, as the player simply cannot expect to fight it out vs. 10,000 enemy troops; even if they have the intestinal fortitude to get through a battle that size, which takes literally hours to play out, due to Warband's quirks, the game may lock up at any time. 

One thing I think I need to address about that issue is to see if there is a convenient way to save during a battle, instead of being forced to leave it; I'm not quite sure if that's possible or not yet. 

The other issue is to address how field and siege battles work, so that giant numbers aren't really necessary any more. 

The Champions are going a long way towards fixing this problem, but having a new system for Cannons is almost certainly necessary; it's been on the agenda for quite some time now. 

Now I have to look at what's technically possible and what would look cool and work well, and while this certainly breaks the medieval mold a bit, it gives the game a certain flavor that's not necessarily a bad thing.

As for them being "tanks"... well, that's not really the intention, but we'll see how it works in practice. 

Think of them more as troops that remain vulnerable to a wide variety of weapons, are fairly slow and have a really effective but slow-firing long-range weapon at their disposal.  Mobile artillery, basically.

They won't be invincible giant robots.  If that's what I wanted, I'd have gone more of a steampunk-mecha route, and human combat would just become a minor sideshow, which I certainly agree is not desirable, given the overall feel of the mod (not saying that a mod about being a steampunk mecha pilot with hordes of disposable infantry in a fantasy RPG setting wouldn't be awesome, mind you; that would be awesome... but it wouldn't be Blood and Steel).

But, like the Champions, it's going to be a new twist on the mod's basic themes; I will keep looking at this as it goes from being theoretically possible to practical and adjust accordingly.  At worst, it's a time-waster and ends up on the cutting-room floor, but I'm fairly confident it will work and be fun  :)


Oh, and as for hand cannons... they'll stay in, but with some nerfs where it would be helpful.  I don't mind people building a force of handgonners; I do mind that they've bounced back and forth every balance update, either being so powerful that they're the best way to blitzkrieg across the map or so weak that nobody wants to use them. 

My thought is that in field battles, they're probably the best counter to these things, as well as being very effective anti-personnel weapons, but their AOE goes down enough to make them much less attractive as castle killers.  Then with a bit more ammo and perhaps slightly better ROF, they're powerful and useful but not ubiquitous killers-of-everything.

Anyhow, that is the current state of my brain on this stuff; we'll see how it all turns out as the idea develops into something practical.

Hatonastick

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Re: The Aleph
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 04:00:18 AM »
I think they're brilliant.  Looking forward to seeing them in your mod. :)

My first mod idea for Warband was originally going to be loosely based upon an Atlantis style faction with advanced (slightly steam punk-ish technology) attempting to invade, and wandering the countryside was going to be some (giant, but using the race system) automatons I'd designed but not actually modeled.  Unfortunately when it appeared I couldn't change their blood or remove it without affecting everyone else I lost interest in it all.

Your idea looks many times better.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 04:05:25 AM by Hatonastick »