Marching (lines and columns)

[hrotha]

Simple: I'm advocating making things as similar as possible to the general experience of a real linebattle, as long as we keep the fun. There may be instances when using real but uncommon tactics goes against the general experience, since some abstraction is needed.

As for that example of Highlanders lying down, well, that quote says it was highly unorthodox, doesn't it?

I'm all for using terrain to your advantage, taking cover where possible. It's both historical and fun. What I don't like is shootouts becoming a game of peek-a-boo where two regiments go slightly over a hill, showing just their heads, then fire and immediately fall back, because it renders infantry fire boring, pointless and unrealistic. That's where I think compromises should be made.

[James Stewart]

My idea seems to work most of the time you get close, in a column, charge fire at close range and mop up the rest in melee, sorted.

[Mikeyo]

My idea seems to work most of the time you get close, in a column, charge fire at close range and mop up the rest in melee, sorted.

Yeah that's what we like to do, a counter charge is even more effective, or when charging wait to the enemy have all fired then point blank them.
But it can be seen as quite unethical really, because it is not very fair considering there is no chance in a real life situation you could pull off such accurate musket fire with a charge and random shooting, when troops are scattered with the numbers, casualties wont even that heavy with volley fire when we are talking 100s and some times 1000s shooting, at a larger target.

But it terms of effectiveness it is by far the best classic MM tactic, which my oppose which is correct, because in large numbers it can be too effective, and the point of a linebattle is too shoot in a line.  But to be fair the Yorks mainly do shoot close range unless told otherwise, according to linebattle rules.

[Kator Viridian]

Simple: I'm advocating making things as similar as possible to the general experience of a real linebattle, as long as we keep the fun. There may be instances when using real but uncommon tactics goes against the general experience, since some abstraction is needed.

As for that example of Highlanders lying down, well, that quote says it was highly unorthodox, doesn't it?

I'm all for using terrain to your advantage, taking cover where possible. It's both historical and fun. What I don't like is shootouts becoming a game of peek-a-boo where two regiments go slightly over a hill, showing just their heads, then fire and immediately fall back, because it renders infantry fire boring, pointless and unrealistic. That's where I think compromises should be made.

Wether its highly unorthodox or not it was still used and very very effectively. It probably aided in the change of tactics in modern day soldiering into more hit and run tactics.

Tactics will always go against "Line battle" thinking, because the general depiction is still a "We'll meet here and fight face to face whilst the cavalry flank", so really whatever tactics a captain uses apart from face to face action will be bending or against the general depiction of a line battle ... but unfortuantly its what often sways or wins a line battle ... those that dare to try something different.

From playing Cavalry as well sneaking around enemies it is much easier to one pass through an enemy and continue the charge onto the next regiment leaving the previous completely bewildered as to what happened ... apparently that is also seen as "Not keeping formation" although as Cavlary you have to leave it to the general will of your men when combat starts. Quite a simple yet really effective tactic, just run right the way through the back or side and move onto the next target reguardless of kills.

Resulted in this:

(click to show/hide)

Its when you start chopping an changing tactics you start really doing a successful line battle, or a more fun line battle whichever you see it as ... it was a very enjoyable fight and I think 1 charge resulted in 8 kills that day.

p.s. if you ever get bored at the start of a lb ... try this out:

(click to show/hide)

[Telford]

Well.. I've glanced over the comments but this has sort of interested me - I'm rather curious to try it out with my Zug.
I do have a suggestion - as Joshly of the 19te stated, we do move in columns and march as much as possible at times...
So I guess, as an experimental  private event - everyone could try using the 'Prussian Army's double rank' means of moving
while also using the walk key...

I guess I could try it out in a training then preach it to the 1stEPI - As I said, a private event testing this would be pretty awesome.
Tally ho chaps, and sorry for skipping out the end page comments.. I might of came in at an awkward moment. ^^

Although, dulled down musket accuracy would make this even more possible and a great point for realism... perhaps an alternate
module for specific linebattles? Invite only? Eh eh?

Right, that's all.
-Telford

[Gunny]

We don't march in column, we march in a line to the the flank

[Telford]

Meh meh, pedantic whatever. 

What do you think though?

[Kieran Bilginer]

If everyone is walking? Also the Secession mod implemented a sort of "marching speed only" and it works rather well and that's with highly accurate rifles. Not saying Secession is better or worse, just saying that these sort of things can work with the right amount of effort

Ahhhh Walking under fire,
Just just  no 

The way it is now, is more realistic than the alternative, as in Walking
perhaps there may be another way but the default /speed marching works well.

[cenzila]

well my idea is better...basicly all we nigerians can run faster than you white folk...so what we tend to do is just run stab zulu style run away then come back and stab u again
muhahahah

[Kator Viridian]

well my idea is better...basicly all we nigerians can run faster than you white folk...so what we tend to do is just run stab zulu style run away then come back and stab u again
muhahahah

How did you become an admin again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g_GeQR8fJo

Because its not relevant ... but funny.

[Evanovic]

I've been thinking about this problem of 'fire, retreat behind hill, reload, move forward, fire, retreat etc'. There ought to be some incentive for an infantryman to stand still, and I was thinking perhaps one of these could be in the form a the following implementation: for those who stand still the firing reticle gets smaller, slowly but surely and to advantageous effect. By staying still and being a little patient (carrying the risk of being shot) you get an accuracy bonus. This would hopefully balance the 'fire, retreat, reload' tactic a bit more, so that it could be re-introduced.

I'm pretty sure this would give some incentive to staying still in line, as well as actually make shooting more skill-based in general; careful, patient judgement of a player could result in a more accurate shot, in the same way that a moving player sacrifices accuracy of shot for maneuverability. The more that player judgement affects the result the more skill-oriented the game will be.
 
Another idea is to make one situation contra to reality, for the sake of balance: make firing whilst standing slightly, but noticeably more accurate than whilst crouching. This would once again encourage standing lines more and perhaps enable crouch to be reintroduced into LBs, it now having a downside.
 
What do you think? Rules aren't the only solution you know. This mod isn't near finished yet and modding changed are definitely a potential way of balancing aspects of LBs or giving them more variety.

[Kator Viridian]

I've been thinking about this problem of 'fire, retreat behind hill, reload, move forward, fire, retreat etc'. There ought to be some incentive for an infantryman to stand still, and I was thinking perhaps one of these could be in the form a the following implementation: for those who stand still the firing reticle gets smaller, slowly but surely and to advantageous effect. By staying still and being a little patient (carrying the risk of being shot) you get an accuracy bonus. This would hopefully balance the 'fire, retreat, reload' tactic a bit more, so that it could be re-introduced.

I'm pretty sure this would give some incentive to staying still in line, as well as actually make shooting more skill-based in general; careful, patient judgement of a player could result in a more accurate shot, in the same way that a moving player sacrifices accuracy of shot for maneuverability. The more that player judgement affects the result the more skill-oriented the game will be.
 
Another idea is to make one situation contra to reality, for the sake of balance: make firing whilst standing slightly, but noticeably more accurate than whilst crouching. This would once again encourage standing lines more and perhaps enable crouch to be reintroduced into LBs, it now having a downside.
 
What do you think? Rules aren't the only solution you know. This mod isn't near finished yet and modding changed are definitely a potential way of balancing aspects of LBs or giving them more variety.

One major flaw ... dosn't stop people hiding behind hills ... I can happily shoot over it only showing half of my body. All the bonuses and half the risk.

Also this promotes shoot outs ... and I havn't really met anyone who has really enjoyed shooting over melee 100%.

[The Magnificent Bastard]

well my idea is better...basicly all we nigerians can run faster than you white folk...so what we tend to do is just run stab zulu style run away then come back and stab u again
muhahahah

 

It's racism! Shoot him!

[Evanovic]

I've been thinking about this problem of 'fire, retreat behind hill, reload, move forward, fire, retreat etc'. There ought to be some incentive for an infantryman to stand still, and I was thinking perhaps one of these could be in the form a the following implementation: for those who stand still the firing reticle gets smaller, slowly but surely and to advantageous effect. By staying still and being a little patient (carrying the risk of being shot) you get an accuracy bonus. This would hopefully balance the 'fire, retreat, reload' tactic a bit more, so that it could be re-introduced.

I'm pretty sure this would give some incentive to staying still in line, as well as actually make shooting more skill-based in general; careful, patient judgement of a player could result in a more accurate shot, in the same way that a moving player sacrifices accuracy of shot for maneuverability. The more that player judgement affects the result the more skill-oriented the game will be.
 
Another idea is to make one situation contra to reality, for the sake of balance: make firing whilst standing slightly, but noticeably more accurate than whilst crouching. This would once again encourage standing lines more and perhaps enable crouch to be reintroduced into LBs, it now having a downside.
 
What do you think? Rules aren't the only solution you know. This mod isn't near finished yet and modding changed are definitely a potential way of balancing aspects of LBs or giving them more variety.

One major flaw ... dosn't stop people hiding behind hills ... I can happily shoot over it only showing half of my body. All the bonuses and half the risk.

Also this promotes shoot outs ... and I havn't really met anyone who has really enjoyed shooting over melee 100%.

People hiding partially behind hills is fine. It was a tactic during the Napoleonic Wars (E.g. Wellington at Waterloo) and shows some tactical initiative. I only saw the 'fire, retreat, reload' as a problem because of its rather unhistorical and non-line formation nature.
 
I don't see the point in Line Battles without people turning up for a shootout. I'm just trying to make shootouts more tactical and varied so that people might enjoy them more. I don't think melee will decease after such changes, if anything melee happens a bit too often and too fast.

[Das Knecht]

I like how it is right now. IMO it is annoying when some 51st/91st regiments come and shoots the shit out of everyone while out of the line, but I won't do anything to stop that - I do whine about it, but what can we do, just try to get on their side on lb's i guess 

Also, kator, you support close-range skirmish shooting charges but not shooting from behind a hill?