Lancers - Observations, Conclusions and Solutions

[Kator Viridian]

There seems to be an elitist attitude amongst many of the pro-lancers. The pro-lancer argument consists pretty much of, "well the skilled players have no problem killing lancers so all players should be able to kill them easily" if you just watch lancers at work in an average game you'll see how hard it is for an average player to beat them. I don't really care about how well skilled players can handle lancers because we all know they can handle lancers, I'm worried about the average player or new players and how they will most likely be turned off of MM by the presence of such a dominate class.

Sorry when the 52nd was at its height and taking on new recruits we had no problems fighting cavalry in general (Hussar, dragoons, lancers), both 1v1 and group v group ... this was when we had more new players than oldies, and I have to say that it was not average skill base that allowed people to win against lancers ... it was the fact of grasping the concept of "Your going to loose, do the msot amount of damage you can" which infact really ended up with them beating the crap out of lancers.

It dosn't come down to stats in MM at all because every weapon can kill you no matter what you are ... its how you approach the scenario. A lancer dosn't expect you to chamber block his lance and go nuts at his horse (You can happily get chambers with bayonete vs bayonete as much as you can lance vs bayonete, and if you spam enough you'll chamber lots), nor does a lancer except you to headbut his horse so his lance dosn't hit you.

Approach it with a kamakazi attitude ... like most situations ... stats count for nothing most of the time with this mod, something to remember.

[MaHuD]

I think that people are more afraid of the couched lance than the stab really.

I myself am usually armed with a butterknife and I can tell you that its impossible to kill a lancer with it who is only couching all the time.
(Even with a bayonet it's hard because of being outreached, and there is no time to reload. But that's why you should safe some bullets to protect reloaders :3)

[crazyboy11]

I myself am usually armed with a butterknife and I can tell you that its impossible to kill a lancer with it who is only couching all the time.

well then you shouldn't bring a knife to a gun fight...

[MaHuD]

I am not the one complaining O:

[Kator Viridian]

I think that people are more afraid of the couched lance than the stab really.

I myself am usually armed with a butterknife and I can tell you that its impossible to kill a lancer with it who is only couching all the time.
(Even with a bayonet it's hard because of being outreached, and there is no time to reload. But that's why you should safe some bullets to protect reloaders :3)

Mleh seen ranger kill a lancer with a opelgyene knife ... thats hard to do ... but still possible, quite funny how it happened really, I'd already wounded the guy quite badly with a bayonete and he finished him off on his second run into us.

[WaffleBorn]

Not every player that comes out of native is skilled and with MM it's a different ballgame than native, new weapons with new speeds and damages and reaches. So you can't expect everyone who comes from native and (where there are long pikes, spears, bows and crossbow to defeat them as well as the factor of armor) to come to MM and be able to start beating down lancers , this is exactly what I'm pointing out here, the elitist attitude against average or less skilled players is so thick it's like syrup.

And Tader I am actually worried about the less skilled players because I've been in their shoes, and it's hardly for my own purposes considering I'm quite skilled at killing lancers now (unless they gangbang me from all sides which they tend to try and do)

[Kator Viridian]

Not every player that comes out of native is skilled and with MM it's a different ballgame than native, new weapons with new speeds and damages and reaches. So you can't expect everyone who comes from native and (where there are long pikes, spears, bows and crossbow to defeat them as well as the factor of armor) to come to MM and be able to start beating down lancers , this is exactly what I'm pointing out here, the elitist attitude against average or less skilled players is so thick it's like syrup.

And Tader I am actually worried about the less skilled players because I've been in their shoes, and it's hardly for my own purposes considering I'm quite skilled at killing lancers now (unless they gangbang me from all sides which they tend to try and do)

Tbh Mongoose I don't even rate myself as an Experianced or brilliant player, my tactics of fighting consist of don't block and charge until your dead, still do in native too. And I still don't find lancers that difficult, since I started playing MM I didn't find lancers that difficult, and considering the first time I played MM was playing as a dragoon in the Wavre event which consisted of a lot of new and exciting things including cannons, the lancers yes were hard and people had played lancers before but fighting them was not too difficult as a dragoon even with no shot (Considering i'd hardly used a sword on horseback in native anyway except against AI when I got bored).

I think a lot of it is building up the lancers into this invincible figure over the past year, and a lot of it is psycological, going at a lancer with the "Their powerful" mentality usually gets you killed than going at it with a "I can kill this" mentality.

The Elitist attitude has been in MM for so long and its not something one person will get out of it, trust me i've tried.

Considering i've spent most of my time on foot mongoose I know quite happily the problem with people taking on lancers, whenever they think of them its immdiatly "Oh no we've lost", you ask anyone would they rather fight a man with bayonete or a lancers, i'd say 100% of the time it would be a man with bayonete just because they think lancers are really really stupidly overpowered because its been drilled into their brains that they are hard to kill if your new.

I would gurentee also Mongoose the first thing you heard about lancers is them being "Oped" and "Easy to play".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNY376o2XMY

Bit of light heartedness never goes a miss

[WaffleBorn]

I actually used to play lancers, it was how I realized how easy they were  and still are to play.

[Kator Viridian]

I actually used to play lancers, it was how I realized how easy they were  and still are to play.

Everything is easy to play ... its just how you view it.

[WaffleBorn]

Fair enough but when I first picked up lancer in MM, and keep in mind I had no prior experience with cavalry - in Native I always played archer mostly - I would consistently get scores up to 11-1 or 10-0, etc. And when I tried Dragoon or Hussar or heavy cavalry it was a totally different ballgame. So for a while I just played Lancer because quite frankly I didn't like going at infantry or other cavalry with just a saber, I even argued for lancers for a while but I started to see how easy being a lancer was and I felt unsportsmanlike. So I pledged myself to the saber.

[Evanovic]

I've noticed something ... Hussars will never go against lancers ... unless you plan on doing French vs French in a training game or duel, in any line battle or battle game there will never be lancer Vs Hussar, and people will pick their favourite anyway ... so thus a comparison is pretty useless ... would you not agree?

I've only just thought of this and can't beleive its taken me so long.

Prussia, France and Russia all have Hussar units. The french one is just the exemplar one to use when making the comparisons. They very much do meet in battle and both being cav, they are directly competing with each other. Even if you want to go down such a route I think it'd be hard to argue that Lancers do not also have an easier time taking down infantry.
 
Evan

[Kator Viridian]

I've noticed something ... Hussars will never go against lancers ... unless you plan on doing French vs French in a training game or duel, in any line battle or battle game there will never be lancer Vs Hussar, and people will pick their favourite anyway ... so thus a comparison is pretty useless ... would you not agree?

I've only just thought of this and can't beleive its taken me so long.

Prussia, France and Russia all have Hussar units. The french one is just the exemplar one to use when making the comparisons. They very much do meet in battle and both being cav, they are directly competing with each other. Even if you want to go down such a route I think it'd be hard to argue that Lancers do not also have an easier time taking down infantry.
 
Evan

Sorry just had a look and only the Russians and French have "hussars", the Prussians just plain don't have hussars so that you can remove. The french and Russian hussars have the same thing but a choice between the Russian lancer, dragoon and heavy cavalry they have to offer I doubt you'll see many on the field.

[WaffleBorn]

I find Hussars and Heavy Cavalry to be the best for anti-lancering. Hussars can speed ahead and catch up to a retreating lancer or swoop in on his side before he even sees you and the light saber is devastating in the hands of a hussar. Heavy Cavalry is good because the heavy horse may be slowest but it turns fastest making it good for "juking" a lancer and the heavy saber is perfect for when you just want to reach out and touch somebody  plus the horse can soak up damage which helps against more spam oriented players.

I think something that sounds agreeable is at the very least to make all lancers have the medium horse, as it stands some lancer units have light horses, I can't remember which but I believe the Russian lancers do. I think if they all had medium horses it'd even the playing field a little. Then they can't run away from me when I'm playing Hussar

[Kator Viridian]

I find Hussars and Heavy Cavalry to be the best for anti-lancering. Hussars can speed ahead and catch up to a retreating lancer or swoop in on his side before he even sees you and the light saber is devastating in the hands of a hussar. Heavy Cavalry is good because the heavy horse may be slowest but it turns fastest making it good for "juking" a lancer and the heavy saber is perfect for when you just want to reach out and touch somebody  plus the horse can soak up damage which helps against more spam oriented players.

I think something that sounds agreeable is at the very least to make all lancers have the medium horse, as it stands some lancer units have light horses, I can't remember which but I believe the Russian lancers do. I think if they all had medium horses it'd even the playing field a little. Then they can't run away from me when I'm playing Hussar

Funny you should say that ... Prussians already have a "medium"(Dragoons have these) slower horse.

So really the prussian lancers are already specced to that and should not be classified oped?

Every other lancers have "Light horses", where as the 2 hussar classes of the Russian and French have "Super light"  (I classified these as super light due to them having higher speed but still being seen as "Light horses").

French Hussar and Russian hussar: 50 speed, 48 manouvering  (Light horse)
French lancer and Russian lancer: 47 speed, 46 manouvering (Light horse)
Prussian lancer: 45 speed, 44 manouvering (Medium horse)

I mean ... if you think Lancer vs Hussar was unbalanced what about Prussian vs French/Russian Lancers ...

[JeanChristophe]

hey uhh...lancers OP