Sorry to be irritating, but is this intentional?

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Why do Persian units start with level 4, and useless equipment, but even the most basic Greek recruits are hoplites, and stronger than the top tier of Persian guards!


It is just somewhat irritating - shouldn't the first tiers be peltats or such light troops? Hoplites were the elites, after all. Also, the guardsmen are useless, since they're lvl 20 for a tier 5 unit.

[nilloc93]

i think your issue is your outright charging into greek units, remember your persan units do NOT specialize in heavy infantry tactics, hit Greek units from both sides, or run cavalry into their rear

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

i think your issue is your outright charging into greek units, remember your persan units do NOT specialize in heavy infantry tactics, hit Greek units from both sides, or run cavalry into their rear

But the level thing is just racist. There is no way a common Greek peasant was that superior to a noble Persian.

It's not like I charge headlong. In fact, I use kiting, screening, skirmishing and flanking to full extent, thus often winning with minor casualties, yet I find the stats a bit ridiculous, really. Simply way too many hoplites - the average Greek army is 90% hoplites, and not a man smaller than a Persian force, which generally consists of Persian youths.

[Gen.WH]

Read history 300 spartans killed 10 000 persians as well Alexander the great with his phalanx killed more persians then u will never belive trust me the persian men were crap they just got huge army including slaves wich even didnt wanted to fight ......

Even a group of light hoplites could oke out the persian noble.        By the way this is not racist its historyally accurate........

[crodio]

greek recruits aren't hoplites, they are just fags with spears :S

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Read history 300 spartans killed 10 000 persians

BS. In a pass 14 meters wide I'd be surprised if either side killed more than a couple dozen opponents. Also, it was 7500 Greeks.

as well Alexander the great with his phalanx killed more persians

Arguable. We will never know the true casualty figures, and it is possible the Persians were in fact often outnumbered. The side that routs always suffers heavy casualties.

Finally, don't forget the Persians conquered Lydia and their Anatolian subjects, Egypt and their Greek mercs, Cyrene and Cyprus, which were Greek, crushed the Ionian revolt and took most of the Aegean islands.

then u will never belive trust me the persian men were crap they just got huge army including slaves wich even didnt wanted to fight ......

Someone's still into 19th century bullshit, apparently.

Even a group of light hoplites could oke out the persian noble.

Well, yeah. A group of men will generally beat a single man.

       By the way this is not racist its historyally accurate........

No, it's not accurate. There were differences in equipment, but there was no physical advantage (i.e. strength, bravery, agility) to the Greeks.
[/quote]

[Gen.WH]

1st: It wasnt 7500 greeks it was 300 because at the beginning of the battle Spartans and athenians met eachother on the Thermopylae but the spartans and athenians made an agreement saying that spartans could hold the attack for a time to give the atenians the time to assemble their army.

2nd: And Persian casaulities were indeed about 10 000 men killed by the 300 some historians say it was even more like 25 000
This is because the greeks using phalanx could never tire out and work in team wich means that they were doing a killing spree with using a 1 unit battle formation able to manage a big enemy in a small field...

3rd: Persians got slaves in their armies about 60 or 70 % were slaves who fought because xerses told them too or they would get executed....

4th:What i mean with the light hoplites is that if u take 7 nobleman charging 7 light hoplites could get noked out easily by them , (and light hoplites are used the be less trained and got orse armour)

5th: It is accurate due to the fact that persians used hords , no battleformation , no unit commands, none tactical melee weapons ( wich means proper shield able to defend them self + helping in creating battleformations, ) no proper armour ( only clothes made out of wool maybe some of their infantry got leather boots and leather body proector but nothing else , as well only the highest qulaity of their men like immortals nobleman and stuff have got proper bronze or iron armour parts (wich was only about 10% of the army).

[FrisianDude]

Read history 300 spartans killed 10 000 persians

BS. In a pass 14 meters wide I'd be surprised if either side killed more than a couple dozen opponents. Also, it was 7500 Greeks.

as well Alexander the great with his phalanx killed more persians

Arguable. We will never know the true casualty figures, and it is possible the Persians were in fact often outnumbered. The side that routs always suffers heavy casualties.

Finally, don't forget the Persians conquered Lydia and their Anatolian subjects, Egypt and their Greek mercs, Cyrene and Cyprus, which were Greek, crushed the Ionian revolt and took most of the Aegean islands.

then u will never belive trust me the persian men were crap they just got huge army including slaves wich even didnt wanted to fight ......

Someone's still into 19th century bullshit, apparently.

Even a group of light hoplites could oke out the persian noble.

Well, yeah. A group of men will generally beat a single man.

       By the way this is not racist its historyally accurate........

No, it's not accurate. There were differences in equipment, but there was no physical advantage (i.e. strength, bravery, agility) to the Greeks.

[/quote]

[AWdeV]

even the most basic Greek recruits are hoplites

That's not true in-game by a long shot. If you run into the cities that have a hoplite-unit named after them, then yes. But they're not "the most basic greek units" by far. Those would be, for example, pelopponesian youths, armed with some shitty spear and a loose-fitting toga-like thing.

[DoctorPringles]

Holy God this thread is full of misinformation.

To the OP, I have no idea what "basic greek unit" you're talking about, but the most basic ones are the "Youth" units, ex. "Peloponnesian Youth" which are equipped with spears and tunics. No shields, no armor. Those are the very bottom tiered units.

Also, the Persian army was made up primarily of "disposable" soldiers equipped with wicker shields and little to no armor. There's no way they could have assembled an army of several hundred thousand professional soldiers, though there certainly were very elite units. Persians were also never trained in Hoplite tactics, and so would almost certainly experience heavy losses when charging head-first into a Phalanx, hence why around 6,000 Greeks managed to destroy 20,000 Persians in the 3 days of actual battle at Thermopylae. Tactics. Plain and simple.

[nilloc93]

ok srsly stop using Thermopylae as an example of hoplite tactics, it was like the only point in history when you HAD to charge headlong into them.

the Persians were always weaker than Greek troops man to man, the Persians almost always won based on numbers alone.

furthermore unless you are recruiting from towns, your teir 1 greek unit is a guy with a funny spear who has a bad habit of dying before i can level him up.

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Holy God this thread is full of misinformation.

To the OP, I have no idea what "basic greek unit" you're talking about, but the most basic ones are the "Youth" units, ex. "Peloponnesian Youth" which are equipped with spears and tunics. No shields, no armor. Those are the very bottom tiered units.

Yet they never appear in any armies. All Delian armies I have encountered are around 90% hoplites. Also, if I go to a city, it gives hoplites not youths.

Also, the Persian army was made up primarily of "disposable" soldiers equipped with wicker shields and little to no armor.

BS. The "Persian" army was made up of a large variety of different troop types. The Ethnic Persians fought as a combined force of spearmen and archers, the spearmen being trained and equipped with large wicker shields (a heavy wicker shield is equal to a wooden one, really), spears and armor. The archers were unarmored, but they weren't meant to fight. Then there were the heavy cavalry. As far as auxiliaries go there were different types, like Egyptian hoplites, Assyrian heavy infantry, Saka cavalry and countless others. There were no untrained disposable soldiers there, really. Light troops =/= disposable, untrained weaklings.

There's no way they could have assembled an army of several hundred thousand professional soldiers, though there certainly were very elite units. Persians were also never trained in Hoplite tactics, and so would almost certainly experience heavy losses when charging head-first into a Phalanx, hence why around 6,000 Greeks managed to destroy 20,000 Persians in the 3 days of actual battle at Thermopylae. Tactics. Plain and simple.

Again, bullshit. At Thermopylae there was no way they could physically lose 20 thousand men. 20 thousand men was the total number of men sent at them!
Day 1 - Mede sparabara sent to attack the pass. No progress made. Recalled.
Day 2 - Persians sent against the hoplites. No progress made. Recalled. Another pass discovered.
Day 3 - Persians sent against the force guarding the second pass. Breaks through, cuts off the rear. Attack against the front and rear of the hoplites. Victory.



The point is, the game is rather unbalanced. There is no way you can field more hoplites than light troops.

[manekemaan]

your tekst here

the cities give elite units, thats the same for persian cities if i'm not mistaken, the villages give youths, the recruits that is. The people running around with a whole lot of those elites are most of the time people who own cities that give elites.

i'm not going in on the historic thingies because i know to few of it. Others should take my example tough.

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

your tekst here

the cities give elite units, thats the same for persian cities if i'm not mistaken, the villages give youths, the recruits that is. The people running around with a whole lot of those elites are most of the time people who own cities that give elites.

i'm not going in on the historic thingies because i know to few of it. Others should take my example tough.

Persian cities only offer Persian youths. Also, the lowest tier of hoplite is level 20, IIRC, while the highest level of any Persian troops is 20, save for the kinsmen.


About AI army composition - if a Greek lord has 200 troops, no less than 150 will be hoplites, many of whom of the lowest tier. The average Persian army of 200 will generally have about 40 cav, 60 recruits, 60 retainers and very few troops of value other than the cav.

[QuickDagger]

Roach is right.

Instead of equipments stats should be similar (although not the same).