Sorry to be irritating, but is this intentional?

[Calathar]

hoplites were core of greek armies, yes? Yes. Most of hoplites were mercenaries? Yes. Read your goddamn history books.

[inox_ionizer]

Any specific book you are referring to? Have you even read any relevant books? Or say, a book in general? I have of course seen plenty examples of hoplites serving as mercenaries, but nothing that would indicate that it was the norm.

[SlaughterBill]

My ancient history comes from Rome: Total War 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

this whole persian bs is rather funny, but

Dude, read a book on the Achaemenid army.

... Greeks weren't trained? Are u stupid m8? Actually all hoplites were proffesional mercenaries, fighting all around ancient world for money.

Are you ******** retarded? The Athenians actually saw training as cowardly.

Yup, militia wasn't trained, but the core of ancient greek armies were hoplites, and they were far more superior in training, tactics and equipment than Persians.

They are famous now, among idiots watching history channel. Read an actual book. The hoplites WERE the militia, moron.  Their own sources attest to that. The only regular, trained force in Greece in 480 was the Spartans. There were a few semi-regular mercenary forces as well, but those were generally veterans seeking employment.

Unlike the hoplites, the ethnic Persians are universally attested to as trained troops.

ALso, why did Alexander beat the hell out of Persians so easily if they were so superior to Greeks/Macedonians?

1. Alexander's victories relied on his cavalry. His infantry, which wasn't hoplites, was there only to hold the enemy infantry.
2. The invasion of Persia was anything but easy.


Guys, there is a lot of difference between History Channel and encyclopedia type books, and actual history books. Also, you'd do well to start looking at primary sources.

[SlaughterBill]

the invasion of Persia was indeed extremely difficult, and on top of that the empire was on its way to collapse anyways...

[Asty]

First, hello every one.
Second, every Greek citizens was trained, all major greek city states have gymnasium and palestre who was the base of education of the polites, the greek hoplites was far better than all elites persians soldiers, the history prove it. Out numbered the greek ofen manage to win. by the time of Alexander 6 years of wars was enough to break the so great persian empire Mr Roach, and don't tell me please to go read book because I have a big Bibliotheque and some of my friends are  historian and I never learn from internet, you sum up the Median War with one (Salamine) battle don't forget Platea, Mycale, the anabasis from Xenophon ect...
True the persian army was great war machine, but they meet there masters. And you forget they don't have to fight with all the greek city only a few, what will hapen if greek was unified they will crush Persian like mosqitos on a table.
So you see only what you want to see, and say only what you want to say. Be a little more honest with yourself and little more polite with the other please, don't be so fanatic with persians and so rascist with Greeks.
I wish you a good day.
Ps. sorry for my english is not my native language.

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

First, hello every one.
Second, every Greek citizens was trained, all major greek city states have gymnasium and palestre who was the base of education of the polites, the greek hoplites was far better than all elites persians soldiers, the history prove it. Out numbered the greek ofen manage to win. by the time of Alexander 6 years of wars was enough to break the so great persian empire Mr Roach, and don't tell me please to go read book because I have a big Bibliotheque and some of my friends are  historian and I never learn from internet, you sum up the Median War with one (Salamine) battle don't forget Platea, Mycale, the anabasis from Xenophon ect...
True the persian army was great war machine, but they meet there masters. And you forget they don't have to fight with all the greek city only a few, what will hapen if greek was unified they will crush Persian like mosqitos on a table.
So you see only what you want to see, and say only what you want to say. Be a little more honest with yourself and little more polite with the other please, don't be so fanatic with persians and so rascist with Greeks.
I wish you a good day.
Ps. sorry for my english is not my native language.

BS, BS, BS.
1. Richer hoplites could afford individual training, yes, but that was hardly too relevant for phalanx warfare where drill would've been much more worthwhile;
2. Any Greeks better than any Persians? Yeah, I am the racist here...
3. You have not read any of my posts.
4. If you see not believing the old tale of Greeks being outright superior to everyone else in everything (because that's what they say themselves) as racist towards you, you should pay a visit to a mental institution.

[Viking_Dane]

you guys should move this to The Sage's Guild  Historical Discussion your not even talking about the mod

[Asty]

Viking_Dane you right, and I won't spare my time on this tread. Mr Roach you can post and post again, insult, cry, but you won't change the result of history. The team tell you the mod is unfinished and unbalanced, so wait to see, they put a lots of works on it and I believe it will be one of the best mod around.Patient.

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Viking_Dane you right, and I won't spare my time on this tread. Mr Roach you can post and post again, insult, cry, but you won't change the result of history. The team tell you the mod is unfinished and unbalanced, so wait to see, they put a lots of works on it and I believe it will be one of the best mod around.Patient.

Guys, in case you haven't noticed I never said the Greeks didn't have advantages. I just dispute the claim that they were inherently better soldiers. The phalanx was the most effective infantry formation for head on engagements at the time, and there is no denying that. But that is no reason to claim they were more trained, better equipped and in any way superior overall.

[shostak]

Roach my good man, please don't start a debate and then scream BS everytime someone posts a response that doesn't correspond to your opinion. You claerly belive that you know everything there is to know about this era of history, and nothing anyone says will change that.

Gentlemen (and ladies) please don't bother posting in this thread, since it will clearly serve no purpose.

I strongly suggest that this thread is locked.

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Roach my good man, please don't start a debate and then scream BS everytime someone posts a response that doesn't correspond to your opinion. You claerly belive that you know everything there is to know about this era of history, and nothing anyone says will change that.

Gentlemen (and ladies) please don't bother posting in this thread, since it will clearly serve no purpose.

I strongly suggest that this thread is locked.

What I hate is that your "response" is just reposting one 19th century misconception after another.

[alexispao]

The only advantage the Persian armies always had was their size. Persian armies had very light gear compared to Greek soldiers, as they were trained and experienced in desert/open land battles.

In contrast, Greek armies were smaller due to high armament costs, easier to resupply and to organize, with much heavier armor/weaponry and better tactics/strategies. Plus they were mostly fighting in homeland, which gave a significant boost to morale.There must be a reason the Persians suffered one crushing defeat after the other when battling with the superior Greek military force.

However, since we got a little off-topic here, I agree that for gameplay reasons the units should be balanced, since a game that's too one-sided is boring and dull.

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Ok, is that the 20th time a new dumbass comes in and says the same thing again? Read the ******** thread.

[alexispao]

Roach my good man, please don't start a debate and then scream BS everytime someone posts a response that doesn't correspond to your opinion. You claerly belive that you know everything there is to know about this era of history, and nothing anyone says will change that.

Gentlemen (and ladies) please don't bother posting in this thread, since it will clearly serve no purpose.

I strongly suggest that this thread is locked.

This.


So many people posted their opinions and you simply choose to ignore and doubt every one that doesn't reflect your own opinion.

Your nationalist feelings do not change the fact your ancestors got their azz whooped by the Greeks repeatedly during the ancient times. Yes, the Persian Empire was great, yes, you had a great army and all that, but don't you come here like a little kid whining because you cannot comprehend that somone can actually manage to be a better soldier than a Persian one.