Author Topic: Religion Thread  (Read 41474 times)

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FrisianDude

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #855 on: March 01, 2012, 08:09:24 PM »
Fact that it was depicted often by a multitude of artists and writers does suggest it was common, though.
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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #856 on: March 01, 2012, 08:10:50 PM »
I'm kind of curious now about what God thinks about pedophilia, I remember a lot of laws concerning property rights and bull burning but child molesting didn't even make it into the top ten commandments.

Maybe He, like many other people who lived in ancient times didn't see much wrong with it so unless there is something in the scriptures condemning this behavior the priests could simply argue that they are being persecuted through the use of false laws, laws that are wrong because they were written by men and not by God. Man, I wish they would do that. :lol:
Since most pedophiles have sex outside of marriage, God is most probably against it. And no, pedophilia was not normal in ancient times.
...
Uhhh it;s depicted in art in several countries in serveral other time frames. =/
Japan and Greece are prime examples.
And, if you want to go into biased hearsay, such acts were commited by both Christians and North German/Scandinavian pagans during the crusade for the north.
The fact that such acts were comitted or depicted, doesn't actually mean it was accepted by other people.

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Agreeing with Fris here
Art generally reflects public opinion, especially if it depits high borne lords playing with little boys...else such art would have been destroyed and the artist killed.= /
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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #857 on: March 01, 2012, 08:18:06 PM »
Don't know about japan and whatnot but Greek and Roman men sure loved their boys.
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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #858 on: March 01, 2012, 10:24:08 PM »
As I've highlighted, the same system means we should fear communism (Stalin and Mao!), democracy, centralised government, democratic election, etc. etc. because all those systems have been exploited by people too.
And again, that assumes we just completely ignore magnitude. Religion, when in power, has pretty much always led to genocide. Democracy not so much. We might get rich people fiddling their expense claims, reporters bribing the police and the like, but there's an awful lot less explosions and people dying. So y'know, given the choice between a system which when corrupted tends to depopulate a country quite effectively, and one which when corrupted tends to mean rich people get richer, I'm thinking the second is going to be a safer option. Especially if you're rich.


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Danik

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #859 on: March 02, 2012, 12:01:02 AM »
As I've highlighted, the same system means we should fear communism (Stalin and Mao!), democracy, centralised government, democratic election, etc. etc. because all those systems have been exploited by people too.
Religion, when in power, has pretty much always led to genocide. Democracy not so much. We might get rich people fiddling their expense claims, reporters bribing the police and the like, but there's an awful lot less explosions and people dying.
What about all the countries which have been ruined by people bringing democracy (and exchanging it with oil)? What is the difference between the invasion of Libya and a medieval Crusade?

Mage246

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #860 on: March 02, 2012, 12:49:14 AM »
They have nothing in common, for starters. Also, WHAT invasion of Libya? The Italo-Turkish war? I hope for your sake the answer to that is yes, even though that had nothing to do with democracy.
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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #861 on: March 02, 2012, 01:23:34 AM »
Don't know about japan and whatnot but Greek and Roman men sure loved their boys.

Japan loves their squids. :U

Swadius 2.0

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #862 on: March 02, 2012, 01:38:10 AM »
What about all the countries which have been ruined by people bringing democracy (and exchanging it with oil)? What is the difference between the invasion of Libya and a medieval Crusade?

Is the Libya intervention not justified?
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reTARDIS

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #863 on: March 02, 2012, 03:42:19 AM »
Is anyone here a Mormon or acquainted with one? It was reported (recently)that a Mormon temple and its congregation posthumously baptized Anne Frank and a score of other Jews who died in the Holocaust. It is a common practice in the Church of Latter Day Saints to baptize people who are still alive or have passed on, including yourself. What do you guys think?


Nipplemelter

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #864 on: March 02, 2012, 03:52:52 AM »
Yeah, some Mormons will do that, and I couldn't give any ****s about it since it ultimately makes no difference to what will happen to you when you die.
Yea, I just imagine the dude in your avatar constantly casting some spell upon the angel in your sig, rendering him unable to fly.
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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #865 on: March 02, 2012, 04:11:56 AM »
Is anyone here a Mormon or acquainted with one? It was reported (recently)that a Mormon temple and its congregation posthumously baptized Anne Frank and a score of other Jews who died in the Holocaust. It is a common practice in the Church of Latter Day Saints to baptize people who are still alive or have passed on, including yourself. What do you guys think?
I'd object to it purely on the grounds that I don't like people claiming any kind of ownership of others, and this just feels like a (completely unintentional, I would imagine) attempt to claim those people as their own, almost using them as branding without their permission, if you will. I can appreciate that's probably not what they thought about it, though, and by and large I therefore agree with Nipplemelter.

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #866 on: March 02, 2012, 05:54:33 AM »
What about all the countries which have been ruined by people bringing democracy (and exchanging it with oil)?
Can't think of any that were ruined, no.
Quote
What is the difference between the invasion of Libya and a medieval Crusade?
Why the hell would we invade Libya?

Is anyone here a Mormon or acquainted with one? It was reported (recently)that a Mormon temple and its congregation posthumously baptized Anne Frank and a score of other Jews who died in the Holocaust. It is a common practice in the Church of Latter Day Saints to baptize people who are still alive or have passed on, including yourself. What do you guys think?
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Blackthorn

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #867 on: March 02, 2012, 09:03:23 AM »
Religion, when in power, has pretty much always led to genocide. Democracy not so much.

Baseless claims Ahoy!

Let's begin with a fun challenge- find me a major world-playing country with democratic elections that HASN'T commited genocide- on some scale- or promoted it or sanctioned it.
Then we run into when 'Religion' has been 'In Power'- that's a fun one with about a dozen definitions, and plenty of wiggle-room to manipulate any figures. America- poster-boy of Democracy, has had a hand in a good few genocidal projects. But we've got a get-out clause! They're religious! So THAT must be the underlying cause. Not human nature, not the concept that 'power corrupts', nope- because they believe a C1st Jew told them to stop hacking each other and try and help other people, regardless of the social stigma or percieved 'wrongness' of their ways, that's what motivates them to do bad things. It's all so clear now...

 Again, we can blame it on 'religion', but the fun fact that you're still ignoring is that even governments with claims to be as secular as possible STILL commit genocide. A more accurate claim would be, "governments always commit genocide, sooner or later- whatever their power base, and those with pretensions of religious-ness use that as an excuse". But that unfortunately misses out the important 'religion' bit, and we're trying to pin genocide on that... so we'll just use the generalisation.

Equally fun is that those non-religious governments who commit suicide usually cite science! (Ubermensch, racial purity, 'evidence' of inferiority of ''subspecies'', 'cleaning up the gene pool'- evidence 'd'em black folk can't think like us', etc. etc.) Does that mean that science is to blame? No- because everyone realises it's just a kind of BS quasi-science that thinly justifies amorality. The same as the quasi-religion- but because it serves an anti-religion argument, we neatly ignore that bit too.

 For most of the 'two millenia' we keep rolling out, genocides were considered a normal tool of statecraft- frankly, everyone did it. What did 'religious rulership' do? They bent their religion to fit the values of the time, and hunted desperately through texts to find bits that allowed them to behave how they always wanted to behave, and threw out the odd passage of Leviticus as an excuse. That's not religion- that's known as a religious gloss. A state leader who is religious is still a leader first, and a leading religious figure second. Hence why the most ideal religious figures who typify 'religious behaviour' are rarely secular leaders at the same time. The two don't gel well. Leaders generally have to be b*stards. It's hard to try and be a saint at the same time.

Equally, we could cite the fact that the pressure group who finally pushed slavery into 'unacceptable' within the UK were almost universally religious. So all non-religious types are (by the black-and-white ridiculous method of argument) pro-slavery. ((But that neatly ignores the bit where previous religious leaders cited slavery in the bible as good precedent for doing it. Ignore the bits where it leads to boundless suffering, and is presented negatively- it's in the Old Testament! Carte Blanche!)), but given that we can omit facts as it strengthens our position, I can drop the second bit, right? And claim all religious types are saints?

And we're on about twelve back 'n' forths without a single quote from Jesus promoting immorality. Still waitin'. ;)

And as for the COLDS thing? Baptising someone without their consent is both meaningless and insulting- as well as neatly degrading the ceremony to 'MAGIC WARTER LOL|Z!" instead of a symbolic marker. Religion is like sex- if one person isn't consenting, something's gone HORRIBLY wrong...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 09:15:25 AM by Blackthorn »
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FrisianDude

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #868 on: March 02, 2012, 09:36:22 AM »
Why the hell would we invade Libya?
'çause they shot Doc Brown.
Nords ruled by King Ragnar, Khergits ruled by Sanjar Khan, Rhodoks ruled by King Graveth, Swadians ruled by King Harlaus, Vaegirs ruled by King Yaroglek. All those peoples live, fight, and die in the continent of Calradia. The Nords and Rhodoks field solely infantry and archers, the Swadians and Vaegirs have infantry, archers and cavalry and the Khergit field almost exclusively cavalry. No such things as "infarty" or "calvary" exist. Play Vikingr!

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Re: Religion Thread
« Reply #869 on: March 02, 2012, 10:44:32 AM »
Do you think behaviour of any kind can be in any way attributed to religion, Blackthorn?

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