Religion Thread

[Jhessail]

No, of course not, sleep is just sleep. Sleep involves dreams and sleep is temporal. Death is kinda dreamless, innit, and eternal. To compare them is rather stupid.

Some philosophers think otherwise 

My point was that you have already experienced total loss of consciousness, whether due to alcohol, head trauma or just deep sleep. As far as science knows, death isn't any different. Thus I'm not afraid of it.

[RanGer_SLO]

To me personally, the prospect of ceasing to exist isn't troublesome in the slightest...I don't love my life very much.

People are not terrified when they ponder the fact that they have only existed for but a brief time, but most tend to fret when facing the idea of cessation of existence. Is there any difference between their non-existence before their birth and their non-existence after their death? None; it's just that while they are alive and conscious they feel strong attachment to the world and feel the urge to continue living.

Spoken like a true nihilist.

Then again, nihilism is the most logical way of looking at the world.

What I am more interested in is, why exactly don't you love your life? Don't missunderstand, I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything like that, it's just I've used to think like you once (infact I've gone from complete self-loathing and hate of life to complete apathy and indiference to death in the last 2 years). I've come to realise that if death is the end of consciousness the we have as much to fear it as the basic act of sleeping. It's basically the same thing, with 1 difference being we expect to regain consciousness when morning comes.

In the words Sir Francis Bacon
"Nothing is to be feared but fear itself. Nothing grievous but to yield to grief"

[Ambalon]

No, of course not, sleep is just sleep. Sleep involves dreams and sleep is temporal. Death is kinda dreamless, innit, and eternal. To compare them is rather stupid.

Some philosophers think otherwise 

My point was that you have already experienced total loss of consciousness, whether due to alcohol, head trauma or just deep sleep. As far as science knows, death isn't any different. Thus I'm not afraid of it.

To me it's not as much as fear as it is an anguish of knowing I won't see everything and I'll cease existing (which, again, as a narcissist, is horrible in itself).

[Moose!]

I've come to realise that if death is the end of consciousness the we have as much to fear it as the basic act of sleeping. It's basically the same thing, with 1 difference being we expect to regain consciousness when morning comes.

It's not the same thing. Sleeping is very different from the end of consciousness. Brain activity, though altered, is nonetheless occurring.

[Uther]

To me personally, the prospect of ceasing to exist isn't troublesome in the slightest...I don't love my life very much.

People are not terrified when they ponder the fact that they have only existed for but a brief time, but most tend to fret when facing the idea of cessation of existence. Is there any difference between their non-existence before their birth and their non-existence after their death? None; it's just that while they are alive and conscious they feel strong attachment to the world and feel the urge to continue living.

Spoken like a true nihilist.

Then again, nihilism is the most logical way of looking at the world.

I wouldn't call myself a nihilist.
I agree with the thesis of existential nihilism, namely that life has no inherent purpose, meaning, or value. However, a nihilist feels that because of this there can be no meaning, purpose, or value to life whatsoever. I don't feel that way. I'm more of an atheistic existentialist.

What I am more interested in is, why exactly don't you love your life? Don't missunderstand, I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything like that, it's just I've used to think like you once (infact I've gone from complete self-loathing and hate of life to complete apathy and indiference to death in the last 2 years). I've come to realise that if death is the end of consciousness the we have as much to fear it as the basic act of sleeping. It's basically the same thing, with 1 difference being we expect to regain consciousness when morning comes.

I have also had that realization, that every time we lose consciousness we essentially experience 'death' It's not scary at all.

The reasons for my attitude are not all that interesting...but since you asked: laziness, ADD, social anxiety, loneliness, lack of passion and enthusiasm for anything, as well as underwhelming achievements. In short: being a loser.

Haven't tried the medicine yet, though. Maybe that would alter my brain just enough.

It's not the same thing. Sleeping is very different from the end of consciousness. Brain activity, though altered, is nonetheless occurring.

Brain activity =/= consciousness.
Brain constantly does a ton of things you're never conscious of. Only consciousness is relevant here, I think.

[Papa Lazarou]

You may still be conscious for at least some of sleep (dreams) - you just don't usually remember it.

[Uther]

You may still be conscious for at least some of sleep (dreams) - you just don't usually remember it.

True. Still, you lose consciousness before you start dreaming.
So basically we all cease to experience the world and ourselves, temporarily, whereas upon death it's permanently. Since we lose track of time when we're unconscious, both are essentially the same from our unconscious "point of view" (so to speak).

[Magorian Aximand]

I think Twain put it best: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

About to start heading home.

[Wolfhead]

I will no longer have a conscience to feel sorry for myself. So I'll fight tooth and nail to stay alive. When I die, you'll hear no complaints from me.

[Magorian Aximand]

Home. Exhausted. Will come up with something soon.

[Nipplemelter]

Oh, what exactly consciousness is and how it develops is very much a mystery. Simply saying that consciousness is derived from a complex neurological system isn't an explanation.

I have actually been meaning to read a short paper about such a topic (link), or at least what seems to be along those lines. However, I am not sure what to think of the author, since according to his Wikipedia page, he doesn't completely reject the concept of intelligent design.

[Papa Lazarou]

You may still be conscious for at least some of sleep (dreams) - you just don't usually remember it.

True. Still, you lose consciousness before you start dreaming.
So basically we all cease to experience the world and ourselves, temporarily, whereas upon death it's permanently. Since we lose track of time when we're unconscious, both are essentially the same from our unconscious "point of view" (so to speak).

Being strict all you can really say is that you don't remember being conscious. It's possible that you are conscious during that non-remembered sleep-time.

[Magorian Aximand]

Oh, what exactly consciousness is and how it develops is very much a mystery. Simply saying that consciousness is derived from a complex neurological system isn't an explanation.

I have actually been meaning to read a short paper about such a topic (link), or at least what seems to be along those lines. However, I am not sure what to think of the author, since according to his Wikipedia page, he doesn't completely reject the concept of intelligent design.

To the best of my knowledge, Nagel is generally well respected as a philosopher. Clearly, when he strays into the realm of science he has made some blunders, but the linked paper should be an interesting read. I know that Harris quotes from it on his blog.

[RanGer_SLO]

The reasons for my attitude are not all that interesting...but since you asked: laziness, ADD, social anxiety, loneliness, lack of passion and enthusiasm for anything, as well as underwhelming achievements. In short: being a loser.

Haven't tried the medicine yet, though. Maybe that would alter my brain just enough.

Been there done that. Then I started drinking heavily and also started training ju jitsu. Since then I've stopped drinking but still training almost daily. It gives me a little purpose, a challenge in life, and it taught me self control (mind and body). Before I'd get in fights all the time. Never been in a fight since I've started training. It's kind of ironic.

You may still be conscious for at least some of sleep (dreams) - you just don't usually remember it.

True. Still, you lose consciousness before you start dreaming.
So basically we all cease to experience the world and ourselves, temporarily, whereas upon death it's permanently. Since we lose track of time when we're unconscious, both are essentially the same from our unconscious "point of view" (so to speak).

Being strict all you can really say is that you don't remember being conscious. It's possible that you are conscious during that non-remembered sleep-time.

Not remembering something is the same as if it never happened. At least for you anyway. Let's assume that reincarnation is real. Maybe I was a really rich man in my past life. I had all the money, fame, women and everything else I could imagine on the world. But I can't remember it. It's essentially like it never happened.

[FrisianDude]

Via Magorian's channel, which I decided to revisit due to this thread, one can stumble 'pon lots and lots of semi-trolls and weak minds who attempt to prove God is real/'evolutionists' are retarded.

IMPORTANT QUESTION TO ATHEISTS. Yes, think about this one.
THE GREATEST ARGUMENT AGAINST ATHEISM!!!!
Facts 'stupid scientists' can't answer.


Comedy gold, frankly. Though I'll easily admit there's bound to be damn stupid atheist youtube clips, I don't think these can be topped. They might all three be trolls though; 'least I hope so.