Fiefs as Marshall

[haplo888]

So beating and capturing very friendly lords is working and allowing me to pick up Lords quickly.

It's just not quick enough to cover all my territory before the Empire start walloping me.  I do have it somewhat grouped together, but it's a good quarter of the map that starts with 0 lords.  I even tried assigning some companions as Lords.  In any case, my 12 Right to Rule is going to end up being an issue in this game, so I'll go back to my 3.42 newer game and try to more carefully re-create this scenario.

A question about Right to Rule though.  Having completely destroyed 2 of the 4 opposing factions in the game, shouldn't I have been given more than 12 Right to Rule?

People like victories, and having such successes have got to be one of the biggest determinants throughout history of mens' claims to rule.

[ttgg]

have you read the wiki on the subject of Right to Rule?

Marry a lady. This will give you some right to rule, as it will make you more 'Calradian' to vassals and ensures your heirs will have the blood of Calradic nobility.
Dominate a faction, then take their desperate cease-fire. Making peace does the same job.
Send an emissary and be recognized as a legitimate lord by any faction.
Send out companions to speak highly of you.
Slaughter peasants and raze towns. To be feared is better than to be loved.
Convince a lord to join your faction.

What I find most annoying about being King, is that my lords are total assholes even though I reward them highly. They get so jealous when I give fiefs to new Lords (which is necessary), that their Rep with me drops like a cannonball in the sea. Then, as a King, I have to stroke their willy without upsetting the other Lords, which is almost impossible in itself and depends entirely on random events, like me saving them from a beatdown or them having appropriate quest available for me.

[krisslanza]

No one ever said being a ruler was an easy job, after all.

Also, I'm fairly certain that village thing is incorrect. My friend said he raided a village before and didn't get Right to Rule from it at all.

[haplo888]

Marry a lady. This will give you some right to rule, as it will make you more 'Calradian' to vassals and ensures your heirs will have the blood of Calradic nobility.
Dominate a faction, then take their desperate cease-fire. Making peace does the same job.
Send an emissary and be recognized as a legitimate lord by any faction.
Send out companions to speak highly of you.
Slaughter peasants and raze towns. To be feared is better than to be loved.
Convince a lord to join your faction.

That's kinda my point.

"Dominate a faction" I have fully conquered 2.  I made peace by winning.

"Send out Emissary/companions"  I have these 2 enemy Kings in my Dungeon.  They are sure to be far more persuasive than a companion spreading rumors about me for a couple weeks.

"To be feared is better than to be loved."  This was virtually Alexander the Great's entire strategy for ruling Persia.  Win so decisively that no force dares to stand against you, then capture King Darius and force him to legitimize his claim to rule.

To all of the above, nothing causes people to gravitate to a leader more than successes.  There was good reason for Roman Emperors to fear a General that was too successful and too popular.  Many people play the mod as a Mercenary Captain rather than go the Vassal/Marshall route.  Adding a couple methods to gain Right to Rule may help to make the Vassal/Marshall route more viable.

1.  Small amount of Right to Rule for leading an successful assault on and conquering a Castle or Town.  And/Or for convincing other Lords/Your King to award the land to you.
2.  Small amount Right to Rule by gaining popularity with other Lords during your Vassalage/Marshallship.
3.  Medium amount of Right to Rule for capturing an enemy King.  (Perhaps an option on his capture menu to 'Declare your Rule Legitimate')
4.  Large amount of Right to Rule for fully conquering an enemy Faction.

Haplo

[krisslanza]

Marry a lady. This will give you some right to rule, as it will make you more 'Calradian' to vassals and ensures your heirs will have the blood of Calradic nobility.
Dominate a faction, then take their desperate cease-fire. Making peace does the same job.
Send an emissary and be recognized as a legitimate lord by any faction.
Send out companions to speak highly of you.
Slaughter peasants and raze towns. To be feared is better than to be loved.
Convince a lord to join your faction.

That's kinda my point.

"Dominate a faction" I have fully conquered 2.  I made peace by winning.

"Send out Emissary/companions"  I have these 2 enemy Kings in my Dungeon.  They are sure to be far more persuasive than a companion spreading rumors about me for a couple weeks.

"To be feared is better than to be loved."  This was virtually Alexander the Great's entire strategy for ruling Persia.  Win so decisively that no force dares to stand against you, then capture King Darius and force him to legitimize his claim to rule.

To all of the above, nothing causes people to gravitate to a leader more than successes.  There was good reason for Roman Emperors to fear a General that was too successful and too popular.  Many people play the mod as a Mercenary Captain rather than go the Vassal/Marshall route.  Adding a couple methods to gain Right to Rule may help to make the Vassal/Marshall route more viable.

1.  Small amount of Right to Rule for leading an successful assault on and conquering a Castle or Town.  And/Or for convincing other Lords/Your King to award the land to you.
2.  Small amount Right to Rule by gaining popularity with other Lords during your Vassalage/Marshallship.
3.  Medium amount of Right to Rule for capturing an enemy King.  (Perhaps an option on his capture menu to 'Declare your Rule Legitimate')
4.  Large amount of Right to Rule for fully conquering an enemy Faction.

Haplo

Except it doesn't work like that. There isn't any "offensive" way to gain Right to Rule - it's all about acting like a ruler, not a warlord. You don't really NEED Right to Rule if you're a powerful warlord anyway...

[haplo888]

Except it doesn't work like that. There isn't any "offensive" way to gain Right to Rule - it's all about acting like a ruler, not a warlord. You don't really NEED Right to Rule if you're a powerful warlord anyway...

Except people do work that way, as history shows us.  A Roman General that had great successes in the field gained political power back in Rome.  He didn't have to use troops to enforce it.  He was not a Warlord, he was a Leader.

Nobody feared Alexander's army of only 40 thousand men.  They feared Alexander's ability to command them.

Men follow leaders that are being successful.  The only mechanism in our game that can represent this is Right to Rule.

The AI won't fear a faction with relatively small, albeit powerful, troops.  But through Right to Rule it can:
1.  Recognize that a General has been very successful in the past with past Conquers and with intra-faction diplomacy.
2.  Recognize the popularity of a General among other Nobles/Ruling Class.
3.  Accept a conquered King's Declaration that a Leader's Rule is Legitimate.
4.  Factor in the results of a power vacuum after a Faction is destroyed, and the results of a General's role in its' conquer.

Haplo

[krisslanza]

Except it doesn't work like that. There isn't any "offensive" way to gain Right to Rule - it's all about acting like a ruler, not a warlord. You don't really NEED Right to Rule if you're a powerful warlord anyway...

Except people do work that way, as history shows us.  A Roman General that had great successes in the field gained political power back in Rome.  He didn't have to use troops to enforce it.  He was not a Warlord, he was a Leader.

Nobody feared Alexander's army of only 40 thousand men.  They feared Alexander's ability to command them.

Men follow leaders that are being successful.  The only mechanism in our game that can represent this is Right to Rule.

The AI won't fear a faction with relatively small, albeit powerful, troops.  But through Right to Rule it can:
1.  Recognize that a General has been very successful in the past with past Conquers and with intra-faction diplomacy.
2.  Recognize the popularity of a General among other Nobles/Ruling Class.
3.  Accept a conquered King's Declaration that a Leader's Rule is Legitimate.
4.  Factor in the results of a power vacuum after a Faction is destroyed, and the results of a General's role in its' conquer.

Haplo

Except Warband isn't history. Just because it worked like that in reality, doesn't mean it worked like that in Warband. In Warband, Right to Rule is how other's view you as a ruler - not as a warlord.

[haplo888]

[Except Warband isn't history. Just because it worked like that in reality, doesn't mean it worked like that in Warband. In Warband, Right to Rule is how other's view you as a ruler - not as a warlord.

Well that's the whole purpose of modding isn't it?  To improve features in a game and make it even more enjoyable.  It's not about following any historical kingdom or dateline.  The history is only to demonstrate human nature to support proposals to improve the viability of the Vassal / Marshal route.

Many people play as Mercenary Captains, which is great.  But these minor additions to Right to Rule would help to give people a whole new way to enjoy the game as a Vassal / Marshal.
By gaining support for your Rule, as Leaders throughout history always have: successes in the field, popularity with other nobles, recognition from conquered Kings, and eliminating your enemies.

Haplo

[krisslanza]

[Except Warband isn't history. Just because it worked like that in reality, doesn't mean it worked like that in Warband. In Warband, Right to Rule is how other's view you as a ruler - not as a warlord.

Well that's the whole purpose of modding isn't it?  To improve features in a game and make it even more enjoyable.  It's not about following any historical kingdom or dateline.  The history is only to demonstrate human nature to support proposals to improve the viability of the Vassal / Marshal route.

Many people play as Mercenary Captains, which is great.  But these minor additions to Right to Rule would help to give people a whole new way to enjoy the game as a Vassal / Marshal.
By gaining support for your Rule, as Leaders throughout history always have: successes in the field, popularity with other nobles, recognition from conquered Kings, and eliminating your enemies.

Haplo

I think this is outside the scope of modding, at least if it wasn't, I haven't seen any mods that gives you more ways to increase Right to Rule. I'm no modder so I may be wrong, but it might be hardcoded how you gain, and lose, Right to Rule.

[haplo888]

I think most of these could be done, and would go a long way to making it more viable to transition from a successful Marshall into your own Kingdom.

1.  Small amount Right to Rule by gaining popularity with other Lords during your Vassalage/Marshallship.

2.  Small amount of Right to Rule for leading a successful conquer of a Castle or Town.  And/Or for convincing other Lords to award the land to you.

3.  Medium amount of Right to Rule for capturing an enemy King.  (Perhaps an option on his capture menu to 'Declare your Rule Legitimate')

4.  Large amount of Right to Rule for fully conquering an enemy Faction.

[CrymsonChaos]

What confuses me to no end is the amount of people who say their factions control a huge section of the map.  Mine rarely leave their normal borders, except for when it's D'shar against the Fierdsvain, then Singal becomes Fierdy.

I've even been a vassal for the Ravenstern, and we barely left our borders.  That's also because I was manipulating everyone, but whatever.  XD

I usually play as a merc and keep factions from getting too strong anyway.  It's hard for most lords to handle a force of 50 H.A.s, they overrun them so fast, I basically get a ton of kill notificiations, and the battle is over, even against Kings with their huge amounts of Knighthood troops.

[krisslanza]

What confuses me to no end is the amount of people who say their factions control a huge section of the map.  Mine rarely leave their normal borders, except for when it's D'shar against the Fierdsvain, then Singal becomes Fierdy.

I've even been a vassal for the Ravenstern, and we barely left our borders.  That's also because I was manipulating everyone, but whatever.  XD

I usually play as a merc and keep factions from getting too strong anyway.  It's hard for most lords to handle a force of 50 H.A.s, they overrun them so fast, I basically get a ton of kill notificiations, and the battle is over, even against Kings with their huge amounts of Knighthood troops.

The game's rarely play the same. At least in mine, Fierdsvain is curbstomping everywhere, while as everyone else has barely done anything. Seven Cross Keep has changed hands from D'Shar to Empire and back a few times, but thats really about it. Just Sarleon getting beaten up all the time.

[CrymsonChaos]

What confuses me to no end is the amount of people who say their factions control a huge section of the map.  Mine rarely leave their normal borders, except for when it's D'shar against the Fierdsvain, then Singal becomes Fierdy.

I've even been a vassal for the Ravenstern, and we barely left our borders.  That's also because I was manipulating everyone, but whatever.  XD

I usually play as a merc and keep factions from getting too strong anyway.  It's hard for most lords to handle a force of 50 H.A.s, they overrun them so fast, I basically get a ton of kill notificiations, and the battle is over, even against Kings with their huge amounts of Knighthood troops.

The game's rarely play the same. At least in mine, Fierdsvain is curbstomping everywhere, while as everyone else has barely done anything. Seven Cross Keep has changed hands from D'Shar to Empire and back a few times, but thats really about it. Just Sarleon getting beaten up all the time.

Well for me, it's almost always similar, until I unravel the fabric and things get CRAZY.  I mean, I started my own faction, captured three castles and a town, and the Ravenstern suddenly began gobbling up the Fierdsvain, then the Fierdsvain are capturing D'Shar lands, while the Empire attacks Sarleon.  It gets NUTSO.

In mine, the Fierdsvain tend to do well against their neighbors, but the empire crushes them because of their Crossbows.  I usually obliterate them too, they just can't stand up against Silvermists, although I hate Vanskerry Jarls, those guys irk me to no end.

But it's consistent, the borders never really shift.  I usually keep things in line though, if one faction gets to strong, I'll either merc, or declare a little personal war on them and flatten their lords like pancakes.

I recently got WFAS, the borders are ALWAYS moving.