Author Topic: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post  (Read 99635 times)

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Splintert

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2160 on: April 26, 2012, 05:25:55 AM »
Not without
1: external program database system to manage syncing of the data
and
2: Warband Script Extender, which Vornne cannot work with since it is non-operational on Linux.

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Vornne

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2161 on: April 26, 2012, 06:44:50 AM »
Vornne , personally ,I am not a server hoster, but I remember ,there is a name server file that can be downloaded in the main thread.If my memory serves me ,  some1 said it could be used to store players gold ,status and faction. If that's true , player could go to different servers with their money and status transferred. And could this mean  , if,after a server crash,I joined another server with my money transferred .And later I rejoined the said reopen server , I would still gain most of my money ,status and faction there??
This is addressed in the first post of this thread. The short answer is "I'm not interested in that style of game".
2: Warband Script Extender, which Vornne cannot work with since it is non-operational on Linux.
That was formerly true, but with newer versions of wine and the WSE it does work on linux, for me; but I still want to keep PW as a plain warband mod, at least for the moment. The features that have been planned a for long time don't really require any WSE operations - though they would make some things easier or cleaner, there isn't a compelling reason to force players to use an extra download (which is not forwards compatible with new warband versions, as is the case right now). I have used the WSE to profile scripts even in the earlier versions, by borrowing my brother's computer with Windows.

hakjimmy

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2162 on: April 26, 2012, 10:01:59 AM »
Sorry , I simply used the wrong grammer  which leads to the misunderstanding , I was actually asking whether it is a fact that it is designed to save the money and status in that way,

not proposing its possibility..  Anyway, now I understand what vornne meant,  and thank u guys for the quick reply.
Welcome to China PW board on China offical MB forum.


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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2163 on: April 26, 2012, 01:32:12 PM »
Sorry , I simply used the wrong grammer  which leads to the misunderstanding , I was actually asking whether it is a fact that it is designed to save the money and status in that way,

not proposing its possibility..  Anyway, now I understand what vornne meant,  and thank u guys for the quick reply.

I actually did try to put the same question across. If I well understand. :roll:

We try to see future possibilities to develop this mod after your work (Vornne) is done. Potential here is massive. I do understand were you (Vornne) stand at the moment. Some clue about what can or can not be done (as a possibility) in that matter (money saving/server connections and so on) would be very helpfull.
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reyman

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2164 on: April 26, 2012, 02:56:14 PM »
They should really change the name of this thread to.  Bug reports and fantasies - read the first post

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2165 on: April 26, 2012, 06:54:15 PM »
Can You stick new Hall of Fame 2 if it gets popular (or now to make it popular :wink:). With previous Hall of Fame we always have a problem to keep it up. I believe that Hall of Fame as thread about players who play this Mod can be very helpfull for new players in general understanding of the mod and community who plays it.
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Aldric

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2166 on: May 02, 2012, 04:35:39 PM »
A few minors suggestions.

1. Weapons . Make long awepike, awepike and maybe glaive unable to be used on horseback
>>>  They are historically infantry weapons, and they are too cost effective when used on horseback.

- Reduce the heavy crossbow and siege crossbow loading speed by 25-30%. The output damage according to speed is too high even for the new standards. We had to remove the siege Xbow from gameplay map to avoid cheesy "oneshot"  gameplay.
OR
Make heavy and siege crossbow only usable by crossbowman. (is it possible to bind a class with a weapons ? )
 Reduce the effectiveness of spawn weapons by at least 25% . Add a cheap melee weapons to crossbow and archers class at spawn ( like a sort of knife or a club )

If possible, add stockpile for crude bow, crude crossbow ( event and  commoners self defence weapons )

2. Ships and doors. Reduce the HP of all ships by about 30%. They take too long to destroy and it's basically never happen on normal circumstance.
Can we have "dedicated" weapons to destroy ships and door, like special "siege axe" or the use of torch ?
Have a weak double door ( like town door ) with about the double of the HP of a stable door. I find no usable props for weak siege/war camps and standards doors don't fit as they are too long to destroy.

Also. A "ramming effect" when a ship crash at full speed with another ship or the coast. It's should cause a great deal of damage. Can you increase considerably the damage of the ship that happen during a crash. A low speed landing on a place will still be possible to avoid ruining the ship.

Bonus : Quick smoke and fire effect when a ship is sunk. That don't need to be long or very heavy.



3. Add in map names list
Quote
1. Naval battle.
2. Dday landing.
3. The Castle.
4. Westerns lands
5. Southern lands
6. Northern lands
7. Eastern lands
8. Dark island
9. Capital city.
10. Jerusalem
11. Crusaders ways.
12. The Battlefield
13. Unknown lands

On a side note i didn't forgot the voice acting plan, but it's harder than expected to find available people to do that. I will launch my contacts again.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 04:38:34 PM by Aldric »

Saboteur100

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2167 on: May 02, 2012, 09:46:07 PM »
From what I can tell in edit mode, the pw_tree_trunk props (the leafless, rotted-looking trees) are not destructible and aren't scripted like regular pw_tree props. Is that intentional?

eth1234567890

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2168 on: May 02, 2012, 11:59:34 PM »
Yes, Is rotted. it can't be uses.


Whalen207

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2169 on: May 03, 2012, 04:52:55 AM »
Weapons . Make long awepike, awepike and maybe glaive unable to be used on horseback

They're historically infantry weapons because the stock of the awlpike was incredibly heavy and the Glaive's curved blade made it extremely awkward to carry one-handed.

Reduce the heavy crossbow and siege crossbow loading speed by 25-30%. The output damage according to speed is too high even for the new standards. We had to remove the siege Xbow from gameplay map to avoid cheesy "oneshot"  gameplay.

Definitely going to have to agree with this. Although the crossbow doesn't require a lot of skill, the amount of strain you have to put on it just to get that goddamned thing to reload is ridiculous. Take it from a guy who knows.

Vornne

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2170 on: May 03, 2012, 11:47:59 AM »
Can You stick new Hall of Fame 2 if it gets popular (or now to make it popular :wink:).
Sorry no: for one thing, I think having many stickied threads lowers the relative importance of the main ones; also that (as explained before) the mod development is intentionally focused on neutral technical things, separate from specific groups of players or flavours of servers to avoid complicating and tangling the development with personalities and politics that change over time. If I stickied one "hall of fame" thread, in fairness a lot of other types of threads would need similar treatment, with time consuming oversight to make sure things posted are up to standard. Having worked with other projects that kept technical and interpersonal areas closer together, I think there is much less stress and likelihood of developer "burn out" if the development can keep focused on mechanics and strictly defined game rules without having to manage personality conflicts, which don't really have useful input into the programming part. I think your thread is totally fine to have as a normal one though, staying visible if people are interested to post in it; if you are worried about it being lost after nobody replies for a while, maybe it could be linked from something like the knowledge database thread. I saw this post before but forgot about replying until now.
1. Weapons . Make long awepike, awepike and maybe glaive unable to be used on horseback
I was a bit dubious about this, but after some thought it seems reasonable, so they have been changed from itp_offset_lance to itp_cant_use_on_horseback.
- Reduce the heavy crossbow and siege crossbow loading speed by 25-30%.
As I said when we discussed increasing the reload times a while ago, they can be increased some more if the effect still doesn't seem enough after large scale testing on live servers; I have reduced the reload time proportionally of more crossbows than you specified, to keep the balance with other stats consistent (light: 45 -> 42, plain: 42 -> 37, heavy: 37 -> 29, siege: 32 -> 25).
Make heavy and siege crossbow only usable by crossbowman. (is it possible to bind a class with a weapons ? )
Doesn't seem possible in a clean, robust, and well presented way, due to picking up weapons being restricted in the hard coded game engine according to fixed troop stats for different item types, and it also doesn't seem realistic.
Reduce the effectiveness of spawn weapons by at least 25% .
There are changes in the next version to that area already, so there is no point in tinkering based on experience of the current public release.
Add a cheap melee weapons to crossbow and archers class at spawn ( like a sort of knife or a club )
Each troop class is supposed to have drawbacks in exchange for advantages; but maybe the top tier classes could get a very low damage sword mainly for defence (knives are only useful for attacking, and clubs deal armor ignoring blunt damage).
If possible, add stockpile for crude bow, crude crossbow ( event and  commoners self defence weapons )
Certainly not: spawn weapons intentionally don't have corresponding stockpiles so players can't figure out tricky ways to gain money simply by dying.
2. Ships and doors. Reduce the HP of all ships by about 30%. They take too long to destroy and it's basically never happen on normal circumstance.
I have wondered about this before; so the ship hit points will be reduced by about 30% as you say, unless other people post convincing reasons not to.
Can we have "dedicated" weapons to destroy ships and door, like special "siege axe" or the use of torch ?
A "siege axe" just seems cheesy - in what way would it be physically different and more effective than the current long axe, or similar? I have previously rejected suggestions of lighting fires that cause damage as too complicated and time consuming, at least at the current stage of development.
Have a weak double door ( like town door ) with about the double of the HP of a stable door. I find no usable props for weak siege/war camps and standards doors don't fit as they are too long to destroy.
Presumably you mean double of the hit points of "pw_door_rotate_stable", which is 1000, doubled to 2000, compared with "pw_door_rotate_towngate_" at 10000; I wouldn't want to reuse the same town gate meshes for a dramatically weaker door (or break existing scenes by arbitrarily changing prop stats), so it would require making a new weaker looking town gate mesh, which I don't really have time for. It can be added to the list for possible inclusion eventually.
Also. A "ramming effect" when a ship crash at full speed with another ship or the coast. It's should cause a great deal of damage. Can you increase considerably the damage of the ship that happen during a crash. A low speed landing on a place will still be possible to avoid ruining the ship.
Not sure about "considerably" as the hit points values are already lowered: the current formula is speed * speed * 10, resulting in 360 damage at max speed of the longship; how much would you be asking? Speed2 * 100, for 3600 out of 5000 new maximum longship hit points? Or something in between?
Bonus : Quick smoke and fire effect when a ship is sunk. That don't need to be long or very heavy.
Not practical with the 1.143 and earlier module systems, but 1.150 and later include operations useful for it; I am intentionally not getting side tracked by playing with trivial new features until after the current version is released.
Add in map names list

2. Dday landing.
10. Jerusalem
11. Crusaders ways.
The other names are fine, but "D-day landing" is a modern phrase which doesn't fit the medieval setting; it would have to be changed to something like "Beach Assault" to be included. "Jerusalem" might be alright, but it seems a bit specific and not descriptive of various generic event scenes - without having a concrete released scene, with screen shots and download link, that has some coherence with the actual historical place; if you really want it could be added - just asking for alternative proposals. "Crusaders ways" doesn't make grammatical sense in English; a sensible naming phrase involving "crusaders" would be acceptable though ("Way of the Crusader"? "Crusading Ways"? "The Crusade"?)
From what I can tell in edit mode, the pw_tree_trunk props (the leafless, rotted-looking trees) are not destructible and aren't scripted like regular pw_tree props. Is that intentional?
Those props are useless leftovers from very early development of the tree cutting scripts, that I forgot to remove; they are left in just for scene compatibility.

Splintert

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2171 on: May 04, 2012, 02:02:52 AM »
Please do not reduce the crossbow's speed further. They are already awkwardly slow to use compared to Native, much alike the flintlock rifles used in some mods. Plus with the classes reduced proficiency I think Aldric is just trying to buff the 2h-spammers, which as you said, you don't like to meddle with Native's detailed balancing system.

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Suspicious Pilgrim

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2172 on: May 04, 2012, 07:33:18 AM »
Quote
A "siege axe" just seems cheesy - in what way would it be physically different and more effective than the current long axe, or similar? I have previously rejected suggestions of lighting fires that cause damage as too complicated and time consuming, at least at the current stage of development.


Well, an alternative could be a "battering ram" which requires 4 branches to make, has the appearance of an oversized tree branch, and works very slowly.

Vornne

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2173 on: May 04, 2012, 10:19:50 AM »
Please do not reduce the crossbow's speed further. They are already awkwardly slow to use compared to Native, much alike the flintlock rifles used in some mods. Plus with the classes reduced proficiency I think Aldric is just trying to buff the 2h-spammers, which as you said, you don't like to meddle with Native's detailed balancing system.
This mod has a few basic differences from native modes to try account for, like any strong troop being able to access and use crossbows, not just the specialized crossbow troops; longer reload times would mainly just mean that players would have to work together more rather than keep a steady hail of fire by themselves alone, but not affecting what armor can be effectively pierced with each crossbow type. After more thought, maybe the reload times could be left as currently for the next release, and then in the release after that when various new features in warband 1.150+ can be introduced, the agent_set_reload_speed_modifier operation might work for adjusting reload speed based on crossbow skill (I haven't tested to see how it works yet).

If other people have opinions on whether crossbow reload time should be increased again, now is the time to say it; try to give examples of actual game situations that you think should have worked out differently, or give detailed testing results: these things are more likely to convince me than bare statements of opinion.
Well, an alternative could be a "battering ram" which requires 4 branches to make, has the appearance of an oversized tree branch, and works very slowly.
A battering ram seems a bit ineffective for damaging ships - they would just float away in the water. Siege weapons for attacking walls or doors have been on the list of ideas since very early days (with some fairly detailed implementation methods dreamed up) as listed in the first post here; but it hasn't seemed important and central to the game play compared to many other features - which have been and are being done first.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 10:34:10 AM by Vornne »

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Re: Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post
« Reply #2174 on: May 04, 2012, 11:25:43 PM »
Thank you for reply. I do understand why not and I respect that. Looking at the thread it self I am not so sure myself if this project is worth of my time (not to mention your time)
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