Prophesy of Pendor 4.0 Developer Notes

[meb2183]

is  4.0 going to be made for  both M&B and WB ?

Warband only.

PoP for Vanilla has been pretty much abandoned by the PoP team.  i think the only reason they still have it available for download is for those players who simply can't run PoP:WB.

  If that is true, that would be very saddening for the PoP fans that cannot afford to upgrade their pc's , and or for the PoP fans that preffer the Vanilla  to  WB .

[Treebeard]

The problematic thing is that MB 1.011 and WB 1.134 are using two different game engines and module systems (they are similar but not fully compatible). Since the PoP 4 code uses the PoP 3.301 code as the starting base and 3.301 is in WB format, PoP 4 will be in WB format. The WB engine has more features and is perhaps still being maintained by Taleworlds (- i.e there might be updates to the WB game engine such as AI updates, new functions to use in the module system, code updates and such).

One option to get PoP 4 in MB format would be to translate all the finished PoP 4 code back to the MB 1.011 module system which would be a hazzle. There would also be features that can't be ported back because of incompatibility. New resources like graphics that works ok in WB won't work well in MB, etc.

So (unfortunately for all who are wishing for MB compatibility), PoP 4 in MB 1.011 is not likely to happen due to lack of time and resources.

[mp84]

Greetings Everyone,

As you know I'm MP, moderator over here on these forums, but also part of the PoP Dev Team.. I was just given the OK by our Boss, Saxondragon, to start updating this thread with further pictures, concepts we may do, and all that fun stuff while the rest of the team is knee deep into the work of PoP 4.0.

So for now, let's start off this preview with some more Faction Banners. You've seen Ashenborn and the Snake Sect, but what about the Melitine Empire, Grand Duchy of Santara, and the Nosheru? Well look no further, as you're about to find out how some of their banners are going to look

Melitine Empire:


Grand Duchy of Santara:


Kingdom of Nohseru:


Now that we that cool stuff out of the way, how about some history about 2 of the major factions and the Knighthood Order associated with it:

Grand Duchy of Santara:

Two-hundred fifty years ago, the many cities and villages of Santara were invaded by the Jatu. Being armed with better weapons, faster horses, and better training, the armies of Santara were unable to contend with the Jatu raiders. Unlike most invaders, the Jatu did not plan on taking prisoners and ended up killing all in their wake. After a short amount of time, the King of Santara ordered everyone in the kingdom to quickly evacuate the area and start a mass exodus through the mountains to the west to avoid being completely annihilated. The Jatu gave chase, not wanting to let their easy prey get away.

Upon reaching the other side of the mountain range, the King of Santara was greeted by a patrolling war party of the nation of Barclay. After a quick explanation of the situation, the general leading the war party decided to aid the Santaran king and fight back against the Jatu invasion. In return for helping to save his people, the king pledged loyalty to the Empire of Barclay, claiming that if the Barclay army could help reclaim the lands, he and his people would forever be in debt. The Barclay army along with the King of Santara and his army are able to defeat the Jatu and push them back through the mountains and eventually back to their homelands in the south. The kingdom of Santara has been a portion of the Empire of Barclay ever since and is now known as the Grand Duchy of Santara, the king being known in the Barclay court as a Grand Duke, however in his own lands he is now referred to as the King in Santara. Now through better training and the backing of the rest of the Barclay Empire, Santara stands as a prominent force that is more than capable of repelling any invasion.

Order of the Leopard:

There is an old legend of this kingdom… before Barclay, before Santara itself came to be. The first tribes to break away from the great Baccus Empire were scattered and broken between the mountains. Soon after, terror was struck into the hearts of the simple nomads when invaders from the South armed with weapons forged from a different era swiftly descended on their prey. In fear of being overwhelmed and lost forever, the nomads pushed farther in towards the mountains trying to escape the relentless assaults on their lands. A wrong turn left a group of nomads cut off from the rest of the retreating allies and cornered by their enemies. The enemies took delight in the anguish and suffering of their kills. They first grabbed a small boy from his mother, her shrieks of terror were said to shake the entire mountain.

The invaders, unmoved by the cries of mercy, unsheathed their weapons and prepared to execute the boy. It was then that the ferocious roars began. As if to appear from nothing, a pack of snow leopards arrived in the pass. As if to sense the plight of the nomads, the snow leopards turned to the invaders and began to attack. Caught off guard, they had no time to react and all quickly perished. Rising to his feet, the young boy moved toward one of the snow leopards and said “Leopardo valiente!”

Thus, the order discovered its name. Orden Del Leopardo

Current Day Amala:
The Order of the Leopard was created during the rule of Grand Duke Aurelio. The Order was created as a way to have extra help against the ever present threat of the Jatu invading the kingdom and threatening the people of Santara. In addition to keeping the Jatu in check in the surrounding areas of Santara, they are also in full support of the Santaran army.

The Melitine Empire

The Melitine Empire is an old offshoot of the Baccus Empire. Hundreds of years ago, the rich and decadent Baccus Empire was overrun by an alliance of barbarian tribes - the Melitines were largely spared and used the opportunity to secede and proclaim themselves the true heir of the once proud Empire under Amorion I the Defender, who stopped the barbarian invasion at the Melitine borders. Eventually the Baccus Empire was restored, although with diminished size and prosperity, competing with its Melitine siblings for trade routes and military prestige. This resulted in minor border skirmishes and full-scale proxy wars in overseas colonies, largely by client kingdoms. The Melitine and Baccus Empires largely avoided coming to serious blows by vigorous diplomacy and the unwillingness of the military and the populace to fight their former brothers. Especially the Melitines were adept at avoiding wars and their devastation, frequently relying on bribes from their coffers filled with taxes and custom duties on trade, this income largely due to the well situated capital, placed as it is on a prominent trade route.

The national character of the Melitines was developed over the centuries by external threats. The old Empire was a fertile ground for new sects and cults, and trying to protect the cohesion of their Empire, the Melitines became fairly dogmatic and uncompromising about their true gods, treating any other beliefs as heretical - burning alleged heretics at the stake on public holidays is a common sight in the Melitine lands.

The periodic invasions from various Eastern tribes with their excellent archers and heavy cavalry forced the Melitine military to develop similar skills in their armies, moving away from the traditional heavy infantry army. Compounding this a series of brilliant general led to the Melitine Empire managing to conquer a number of their neighbours and turn them into tributary states. The size of this land to defend has forced the Melitines to develop their own defensive network based on the principle of defence in depth. Frontier garrisons are made of solid infantry who have to hold the line until the large standing cavalry forces can be alerted and deployed. These small units hold the enemy up allowing the main Melitine army to position itself and deliver the killing blow. Other Eastern influences also slowly crept in the mainstream of the Melitine society. There was increased tolerance to cruel punishments like cutting off various limbs and appendages for fairly minor crimes. Some sections of the clergy have denounced the portrayal of Gods in paintings and statues as blasphemous, which may lead to serious internal strife in the future.

Watching the onslaught of the Serpent Cult on the Baccus Empire from a relatively safe distance, the Melitine rulers are of two minds. The Melitine magnates are pleased their old trade rival is on the ropes and they say that the Cult may be reasoned with, and even cultivated into a junior trading partner. The clergy and the populace are horrified of the Cult and apprehensive - they fear that their land will be the next victim, and many in the military want to strike first.

The Order of the Rolling Thunder

Established 180 years ago by Manuel the Blessed.

When the Melitine armies encountered the Parites, another Eastern invader army, they were in for a nasty shock. The Parites charged the solid ranks of the Melitine legionnaires with heavily armored cavalry called cataphracts that trampled the men and were nearly impervious to pikes. Only a late charge by the Emperor Manuel's noble cavalry managed to drive away the cataphracts and restore order in the infantry ranks. Despite the casualties, the line was held against subsequent waves of massed infantry attacks, and the legionnaires once again proved their valour and skills - the invaders were turned away.

Manuel learned a valuable lesson and began to train some of his knights as cataphracts, breeding exceptionally large and powerful horses for the purpose. They were used to great effect against the hapless infantry of subsequent invading armies. The Emperor was wise enough to create an elite order of cataphracts, The Order of the Rolling Thunder. Only noble sons are accepted and their superior mounts and armour are paid for by their fathers, bringing them prestige and honour. To the Order's chagrin, some of their patrols in the past were successfully ambushed by Heretics and Cultists, who kept the horses and transformed them by foul magic into Netherworld Chargers. The Order today fights against heresy of any kind and colour, and is particularly eager to engage the Serpent Cult.

Well, that's all for now everyone, so hope you enjoyed what you just read and naturally as more artwork and other aspects of the mod continue to be finalized you should defiantly see more previews that showcase PoP 4.0 as we progress in its development.

[Possut]

*In awe* 

Looks and sounds great Can't wait for a even greater mod than v.3. Keep it up!

[MIHAI]

sounds nice but the santara flags look bad to me, because of the anachronistically stylized style the lepard is drawn on the flag. It has no medieval feel but rather a 21 century gansta' symbol or tattoos. The medieval times (I know this is not Europe or eath, but still) the game tries to emulate was not capable of such creation of art. (the same goes tot he second nosheru flag) It just does not have a medieval feel, but taher a modern one

[dulahan]

sounds nice but the santara flags look bad to me, because of the anachronistically stylized style the lepard is drawn on the flag. It has no medieval feel but rather a 21 century gansta' symbol or tattoos. The medieval times (I know this is not Europe or eath, but still) the game tries to emulate was not capable of such creation of art. (the same goes tot he second nosheru flag) It just does not have a medieval feel, but taher a modern one

Look into Chinese animal art.  It certainly could be done back then.  Just because it wasn't in Europe doesn't mean it couldn't be.  Especially since this is a fictional fantasy realm to begin with.,

[MIHAI]

I agree, you could say it looks asian (but by a huge margin), but the game feeling, in 3.0 was not asian at all, but european, and I would not expect to much of a change in pop4.

[mp84]

I agree, you could say it looks asian (but by a huge margin), but the game feeling, in 3.0 was not asian at all, but european, and I would not expect to much of a change in pop4.

You do realize the setting of PoP 4.0 Legacy is Amala right? Which, in turn, is an entirely different continent then where PoP 3 took place .. Not saying your wrong or right, just throwing that out there.. We naturally have more then 6 banners per faction, I just posted some of them, in fact Santara has over 20, and while we are still in the development cycle some concepts could change down the line.. One thing I can tell you that's definite so far, are the Colors, what you see on the banners are pretty much the Colors we intend each faction to have, and that will probably not change.

regards,

MP

[MIHAI]

I understand, the color aspect is very nice, though I would imagine lords can defect, so it will get messed up in time, regarding the flags, but beyond that, the graphic in some of them is hugely anachronical, by any margin. if such a new artistic stile would have been invented, used and accepted by the traditional nobility in Amala, more simple looking flags would not exist, not to mention that the back-layer of the flags is a traditional one, so weird mix, that would have an effect on the immersion of the game.

edit, also using the symbol of the Sikh Empire is kind of bizzare and unoriginall

[M0rdred]

And using the Lion Rampant (Holland and England) or the Fleur de Lis (France) is not?

I take your point on the images used, but we have already significantly toned them down, before the artists were using colour fades and other gimmicks like that. So long as it is simple colour, then designs are all possible. A lot of time and effort went in to making banners back then, and they had some extremely talented seamstresses working on them - just look at the Bayeux Tapestry! If they can make that in 1066, they can make these banners set 3-400 years later.

[MIHAI]

of course they can make them, tehnically (and yes color fading is more crazy). I am just saying that the mindset and the artistic current was not prepared at that time (13-14-15th centuries) to stylize in this manner. Hell, they had the first tries at perspective during Renaissance, and that was it; late 18th century realism began painting in these kind of perspective, and only the early 20th century pop art reached this kind of stylizing and line-work.

And the french and English symbols are somewhat all over Europe at that time Along with the eagle in it's many forms.
Anyway the Pop work is great it has been the second game as time spent playing after Europa universalis 3. The team is nice, I am just making some points about the feel of the game, as I want it to turn out the best
I can even make some banners myself, if they wish, as I know photoshop and studies heraldry in my second year in history university.

Also the forth melitine flag, should have the squares equal

[pesadelo]

I love the  new banners , good work .And i'am loving the updates

[Scotterius]

I have been checking regularly for updates, loved the flags particularly the Nosheru.  Excellent job.  I do agree with Mihai that the santara flags are a little out of place. I redrew the one that bothered me the most.  It could now be sewn on fabric and painted with a stencil on shields.

I think its still clearly a leopard and is more dangerous looking.

Edit: Linked wrong picture!  Whew...that could have been weird for everyone

[MIHAI]

The perspective is stil anachronical. it is either front or profile

[Scotterius]

I didn't think that the anachronism is what bothered me, it was the fragile nature of the design to be duplicated across infantry heraldry, nobles and shields. But if its silk laminated on shields...eh, maybe.  I do kinda like the leopard, and the tiger isn't a bad start to me.

Dang it, it is the anachronism.

Edit:  Completely redrew Tiger.



A little off center, but for a test...I kind of like it.  Maybe you can only push the anachronism so far with some people.  I think the Gothic style tongue helps more than it seems.