Mount&Blade: Warband > Brytenwalda [B]

Documental: Warriors, Viking Terror

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alfrogo:

--- Quote from: Aernuss on May 05, 2012, 12:32:43 PM ---
--- Quote from: Bert Preast on January 07, 2011, 05:32:42 PM ---Genetic map of Europe, might be of interest to those arguing who's related to who:

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21358
--- End quote ---

That's funny, when reading this "debate", I thought also of showing you this map. Instead, I leave you with this illustrative statement from  Bauchet et al. (2007), "Measuring European Population Stratification using Microarray Genotype Data", The American Journal of Human Genetics 80, who said: "there is low apparent diversity in Europe, with the entire continent-wide samples only marginally more dispersed than single population samples elsewhere in the world." Obvious as it was even before any mtDNA, YDNA or Autosomal (non-gender based) DNA studies came to light (and in the end, they all agree in this); I guess you "Vikings" should keep this in mind before starting to get too inflamed about things like the "viking race"!

--- End quote ---

id understand better if you put it in layman's terms

Hypno Toad:
Ah, thanks for these links. I remember seeing that dane axe guy with his lammelar armor and was trying to find that video again.

Gonna make this request again since we're here, you really need to make it so the "Two Handed Axe" weapon can be switched to a polearm mode, like the long axes in warband.

Notice how the guy uses the axe like a polearm, putting his left hand far a the bottom and his right hand further up and thrusting with it. These dane axes were not intended to be used like a two handed weapon, they were used more like a glaive or halberd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beSDGVcmmdI&t=1m54s

Warband's weapon system allow you to press X and switch the weapon mode if the weapon has a secondary mode, so you should allow an alternate mode from the Two Handed Axe that lets it be used in the "proper" fashion or the two handed fashion

aurgelmir:

--- Quote from: Aernuss on May 05, 2012, 12:32:43 PM ---Instead, I leave you with this illustrative statement from  Bauchet et al. (2007), "Measuring European Population Stratification using Microarray Genotype Data", The American Journal of Human Genetics 80, who said: "there is low apparent diversity in Europe, with the entire continent-wide samples only marginally more dispersed than single population samples elsewhere in the world."
--- End quote ---
And by "elsewhere in the world" I'm guessing he means subsaharan-Africa? African populations are much more genetically diverse than all others but there is hardly less genetic diversity between different populations in europe than there is within comparable populations elsewhere in Eurasia and the Americas unless one was to construe "peoples in India" as one population but that would be a rather dishonest grouping.


--- Quote from: Aernuss on May 05, 2012, 12:32:43 PM ---Obvious as it was even before any mtDNA, YDNA or Autosomal (non-gender based) DNA studies came to light (and in the end, they all agree in this); I guess you "Vikings" should keep this in mind before starting to get too inflamed about things like the "viking race"!

--- End quote ---
What are you on about?

Aernuss:

--- Quote from: aurgelmir on May 11, 2012, 04:32:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: Aernuss on May 05, 2012, 12:32:43 PM ---Instead, I leave you with this illustrative statement from  Bauchet et al. (2007), "Measuring European Population Stratification using Microarray Genotype Data", The American Journal of Human Genetics 80, who said: "there is low apparent diversity in Europe, with the entire continent-wide samples only marginally more dispersed than single population samples elsewhere in the world."
--- End quote ---
And by "elsewhere in the world" I'm guessing he means subsaharan-Africa? African populations are much more genetically diverse than all others but there is hardly less genetic diversity between different populations in europe than there is within comparable populations elsewhere in Eurasia and the Americas unless one was to construe "peoples in India" as one population but that would be a rather dishonest grouping.
--- End quote ---


I guess "elsewhere in the world" means "elsewhere in the world". Means that a sample from Sweden, for instance, diverges from one sample from Spain or Moldavia not much more than two samples from the same asian village.


--- Quote from: Aernuss on May 05, 2012, 12:32:43 PM ---Obvious as it was even before any mtDNA, YDNA or Autosomal (non-gender based) DNA studies came to light (and in the end, they all agree in this); I guess you "Vikings" should keep this in mind before starting to get too inflamed about things like the "viking race"!
--- End quote ---
What are you on about?
[/quote]

...on the non-existence of "races" inside Europe, namely the non-existence of a "viking race", or "nordic race", or whatever you want to call it.

aurgelmir:

--- Quote from: Aernuss on May 12, 2012, 12:27:13 AM ---I guess "elsewhere in the world" means "elsewhere in the world". Means that a sample from Sweden, for instance, diverges from one sample from Spain or Moldavia not much more than two samples from the same asian village.
--- End quote ---

When reading the paper I noticed that the populations they compared european genetic diversity to, immediatly after the passage you quoted; were the Brahmins and the Mala, which are indian castes streching the whole lenght and width of the indian subcontinent (a subcontinent of about the same size as the subcontinent of Europe but with much higher historical populationlevels) and spanning the north/south indian genetic/language/geographical divide. While they based on the genetic maps in paper were indeed more diverse than pretty much the entire european genetic spectra I would consider it to count for rather little. Not only is castes entirely endemic to India but they also mirror significant-ish prior genetic differences between the general populations of north and southern india.


--- Quote from: Aernuss on May 05, 2012, 12:32:43 PM ---...on the non-existence of "races" inside Europe, namely the non-existence of a "viking race", or "nordic race", or whatever you want to call it.

--- End quote ---
No one even mentioned race before you showed up. But even if someone did the level of genetic diversity would have precious little to do with it, race is a qualitative judgement call whereas genetic diversity is a rather blunt quantitative measurement that really only tells of historic population levels and population bottlenecks.

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