worst strategic decision / mistake

[Skot the Sanguine]

Ah crud, I had a nice response and the thing crashed. 

In summary:

Munich, no, what I mean is that some officials in Britain felt the country was not yet prepared for war, and I believe they were mostly right.  Often there is this idea that Churchill was the only fighter in the top echelon and only after he came into power in May 1940 were they energized.  I like Churchill, but he wasn't the infallible titan they make him out to be.  Look at Gallipoli and then the same damn thing in World War II at Anzio (which almost cost my grandfather his life).  He could be a pigheaded fool, but in 1940 when Britain was in its darkest hour, that is what was needed.

As for training with the Luftwaffe...Germany had been training pilots in Russia secretly for some time.  So even though they had officially instituted the Luftwaffe in 1935, they had plenty of manpower in 1938.  Hell, their air force was the largest in the world.  Germany had a knack for getting around the Treaty of Versaille anyway.  No rifle production?  Lets make "carbines".  No artillery?  Time to experiment with ballistic rockets.  No bombers?  Our airlines need some new aircraft with medium bomber specifications...

Finally, with Poland...never trust Polish sources for Polish history (says the man with a Teutonic Knight as his avatar).  They are notoriously nationalistic and delusional (just like ancalimon).  There is a reason that there is a standing joke that Polish Winged Hussars used to slay dragons with their penises....  Those numbers are certainly what the Poles claimed to have shot down versus their own actual losses...and anyone who knows anything about aviation combat knows that pilots always overclaimed...by a fair amount.  So if the Poles claimed to have downed 70 planes and lost 40 of their own (as an example)...most likely they actually shot down a third to a half of that (22-35).  All countries did this though, but Germany was probably the most accurate probably due to their AR efficient nature .  Nevertheless, I wouldn't trust Polish sources to be objective enough to check all sources from other countries to confirm this.

Another classic example is the story of how some Polish cavalry attacked German tanks and killed one commander.  The reality is they attacked some armored cars and slightly wounded one commander but were in turn savagely mauled.  Heroic indeed, but typical Polish flop.

[ChrisTheThird]

Hm, do you think that was worse than letting the Germans occupy Sudetenland and annex Austria? At least the Rhineland was within their own borders. Also, easy to criticize in hindsight, particularly about the orders to retreat if opposed, but what if fighting broke out and escalated? Do you think the Brits and French would have been glad they attacked and plunged Europe into a new war?

The phrase "Give them and inch and they take a mile" would be a good enough explanation of course letting Germany re-militarise the Rhineland didn't seem like such a insult to the Treaty of Versailles but if France and Britian had stopped Hitler when he marched into the Rhineland he would have been crushed and there would have never been a Second world war.(Note) If the fighting had escalated i doubt Germany would have won and the casualties of the war would have been small compared to the horrendous loss of life in the second world war

[BenKenobi]

Another classic example is the story of how some Polish cavalry attacked German tanks and killed one commander.  The reality is they attacked some armored cars and slightly wounded one commander but were in turn savagely mauled.  Heroic indeed, but typical Polish flop.

Wrong. They spotted a camping (like resting, not in defense position) group of Germans and their commander ordered charge, instead of dismounting and attacking on foot (while normaly cavalry brigades fought on foot, sort of "motorised" like infantry, if they met unorganised, unwary or unprepared enemy, charge with sabers was common tactic), which was I believe in doctrines of all the countries of that era (US used charge in 1942 at Philipines). The charge was succes and the group of 250 horsemen of 18. Pułk Ułanów Pomorskich managed to kill about 10 germans, wound also about 10 and routed the rest. In that moment, german reconaissance group with Sdkfz.222s and Sdkfz.232s appeared from the forest and begin to fire at Poles from machineguns. Poles, without any means of damaging these armored cars (rest of the group with "not so horse equipment" as tankettes, AT rifles and cannons) was holding position in the behind), started to gallop back to their own, but in open ground were easy targets and about 80 from 250 horsemen was killed. But yeah, we all enjoy picture of stupid horse ridings Poles crushed by glorious boot of allmighty Wehrmacht.

As for training with the Luftwaffe...Germany had been training pilots in Russia secretly for some time.  So even though they had officially instituted the Luftwaffe in 1935, they had plenty of manpower in 1938. 

I did not say they had not plenty of manpower, I did say that from only 54% went through whole training time, while the remaining 46% had only shortened one. But as you simply wont believe me, I dont think it is worth a discussion.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't trust Polish sources to be objective enough to check all sources from other countries to confirm this.

Sure, I also only trust Germans, Brits and Amis. All Polish air force was destroyed on ground in first hours of conflict without any fight at all, i know.

Munich, no, what I mean is that some officials in Britain felt the country was not yet prepared for war, and I believe they were mostly right.

It is nice to know what who felt, but the fact is that in 1940, Britain was in much worse position than it would have been in 1938. Just do the basic math and count the numbers of French air force + Czechoslovakian air force + RAF against Luftwaffe. And on ground there is really nothing to discuss as numbers of divisions kinda speak for themselves.

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Greatest mistake? Hmm. That's a big one. How about the rash Achaemenid admiralty at Salamis? Had they opted for starving the Athenians out rather than charging headlong into envelopment, we might still live in the stone age.

[Skot the Sanguine]

Sure, I also only trust Germans, Brits and Amis. All Polish air force was destroyed on ground in first hours of conflict without any fight at all, i know.

None of the sources I have read from all three of those countries said anything of the like.

As for your percentages of German training and shortened training, I want to see your sources before I believe it.  It just doesn't add up from the books I have read.

With regards to the Polish against the armored cars, that sounds like it makes sense, so I believe it.  It probably somehow became a symbol of the valiant futility of Polish resistance.

[BenKenobi]

It probably somehow became a symbol of the valiant futility of Polish resistance.

Mainly because of movie Lotna by Anrzej Wajda. And germans were making a reconstruction for their weekly newsreels I believe.

As for your percentages of German training and shortened training, I want to see your sources before I believe it.  It just doesn't add up from the books I have read.

JOHN, Miloslav. Září 1938 1. díl, Přípravy nacistického Německa na přepadení Československa v roce 1938 .  Brno: Bonus A, 1997. ISBN 80-85914-44-1.

Although there are some mistakes in that book (he is describing Czechoslovak fortification in less completed state than it really was, has some issues with german tanks numbers in 1938/1939, describing some CZE divisions as motorised even though they were not, and some other minor problems), he is pretty confident in regard to air forces (i do believe he used lists of trainings of crew types to finish number of German planes in 1/10/1938 as a lot of numbers were missing or not clear, even in German archives).

[Skot the Sanguine]

Unfortunately I don't speak Czech, so right now it is a dead end for me to check it.  Maybe I will be able to find a translation somewhere.  Thanks for the source though.

[Rubberduck]

Greatest mistake? Hmm. That's a big one. How about the rash Achaemenid admiralty at Salamis? Had they opted for starving the Athenians out rather than charging headlong into envelopment, we might still live in the stone age.

So Persians were like...Cro-Magnon?

[Skot the Sanguine]

So Persians were like...Cro-Magnon?

Maybe...

[Rubberduck]

So Persians were like...Cro-Magnon?

Maybe...

Ok, I agree it´s bit hard to argue with that....

[Agovic]

Attack on Yugoslavia, due that this action done personally by Hitler on 6 April 1941 has slowed down the invasion of the USSR, bringing the top moment of the invasion into winter,instead of autumn like it was planned, and the final defeat of the Nazis.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Yugoslavia

[Captured Joe]

Or, still better:
Attack Russia at all.

BTW, great new avatar, Skot!

[Sir Hitson Winsler]

Attack on Yugoslavia, due that this action done personally by Hitler on 6 April 1941 has slowed down the invasion of the USSR, bringing the top moment of the invasion into winter,instead of autumn like it was planned, and the final defeat of the Nazis.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Yugoslavia

Yugoslavia was attacked along with Greece, it was the start of the Nazis aiding the Italians, it didn't slow down the invasion of Russia, Italy's incompetence and utter inability to defeat much smaller numbers is what slowed down the Nazis, not because 'They picked on tough old Yugoslavia'

[Skot the Sanguine]

Attack on Yugoslavia, due that this action done personally by Hitler on 6 April 1941 has slowed down the invasion of the USSR, bringing the top moment of the invasion into winter,instead of autumn like it was planned, and the final defeat of the Nazis.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Yugoslavia

Yugoslavia was attacked along with Greece, it was the start of the Nazis aiding the Italians, it didn't slow down the invasion of Russia, Italy's incompetence and utter inability to defeat much smaller numbers is what slowed down the Nazis, not because 'They picked on tough old Yugoslavia'

That is true, though the invasion of the Balkans and Greece did push the invasion back from May to the end of June...the difference of which might have had a large impact on the taking of Moscow.  That being said, as Sir Winsler mentioned it was done to aid the Italians after a debacle of an invasion of Greece from Italian Albania.  The Germans stomped right through Yugoslavia and even Greece (despite some good defense)...but the time it took to do so, even relatively quickly, put the Russian invasion behind schedule.  Yugoslavia later proved tough to hold with some excellent resistance movements, but that doesn't factor into the invasion in 1941.

[Agovic]

Attack on Yugoslavia, due that this action done personally by Hitler on 6 April 1941 has slowed down the invasion of the USSR, bringing the top moment of the invasion into winter,instead of autumn like it was planned, and the final defeat of the Nazis.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Yugoslavia

Yugoslavia was attacked along with Greece, it was the start of the Nazis aiding the Italians, it didn't slow down the invasion of Russia, Italy's incompetence and utter inability to defeat much smaller numbers is what slowed down the Nazis, not because 'They picked on tough old Yugoslavia'

Yugoslavia at that time was a lot of things except for tough and powerfull....... Following the coup de etat just 2 weeks before, and the switch of sides, Yugoslavia was destroyed, the armies that were supposed to attack Russia and be in Moscow by 15th November had been diverted to attack Yugoslavia, those 20 days were what brought the Russians and allies the victory in WW2.... Hitler was so.... Stupid with that decision..