Bows are Terrible!!

[MrExpendable]

I got my bow skills up to like 250+ and i could start being lethal, yeah one single archer is fairly inaccurate, but get 10 or 20 and unarmoured people start dropping like flies.. And if you flank some heavy troops you start dealing serious damage too.

This. Archers at the time were meant to target lightly armoured infantry, and take the role of skirmishing units.

You have to take into consideration the different ways an archer can be trained. English longbowmen at the 14th-15th century fired in volleys. Volleyfire was delivered by having archers reloading an arrow and directly releasing it. This allows an archer battalion to "bombard" enemy formations with large numbers of arrows (Longbowmen delivering 12 arrows a minute). In short, the archer gained reload speed whilst having a decrease in accuracy, but it wasn't a real concern as most opposition would arranged themselves in large formations.

Most archer companies at the 7th century weren't trained to unleash volleys while standing in lines (as being said before, most achers were militia and hunters, thus they're not used to fireing like this), but to hunt men in skirmishes. They mostly tried to aim with their bows at short range, supporting the infantry. This aiming reduced their reload speed, but also increased their accuracy, especially when fireing at their used short distance.

I do agree that archers could use a buff. I think that by increasing the accuracy and damage (with the last one being only a slightly increase!), while considerably increasing their reload speeds, you will achieve a nice balance if you do it right. 

[Crossbow Joe]

I think they are weak because Idibil didn't want people overusing bows in a period when they were not really common.

[MrExpendable]

I think that the whole Warband recruiting system isn't very suitable for Brytenwalda. The recruiting/upgrade system allows the player to upgrade his men in any damn way he wishes without regards to the interests of the recruits themselves.

I thought of having a system, wereby recruiting locals into the army would apply for certain jobs. Like, when you go to a village and recruit men, a window appears saying "5 men wish to join the infantry", or "5 men wish to join the archery" with the last one being the one appearing the least. It could somehow reflect the interests asparent soldiers had during those times. Joining the shieldwall would definetly be more honourable and most importantly, you could rise really high if you had the skills. So more men would join the shieldwall rather than the archer companies.

This would however require not only some coding, but a complete revamp of the unit trees as well. I'm interested to see how this system could work out but I'm not demanding this as it's alot of work on behalf of the modder team.

[Idibil]

I think that the whole Warband recruiting system isn't very suitable for Brytenwalda. The recruiting/upgrade system allows the player to upgrade his men in any damn way he wishes without regards to the interests of the recruits themselves.

I thought of having a system, wereby recruiting locals into the army would apply for certain jobs. Like, when you go to a village and recruit men, a window appears saying "5 men wish to join the infantry", or "5 men wish to join the archery" with the last one being the one appearing the least. It could somehow reflect the interests asparent soldiers had during those times. Joining the shieldwall would definetly be more honourable and most importantly, you could rise really high if you had the skills. So more men would join the shieldwall rather than the archer companies.

This would however require not only some coding, but a complete revamp of the unit trees as well. I'm interested to see how this system could work out but I'm not demanding this as it's alot of work on behalf of the modder team.

Mm, it is a interesting idea, but I think that then you missing training factor. I mean say that a Warlord can have farmers that he training to archers, and huntmen that he training to infantry.
Actually, system let you choose that you need in second stage. You have low class recruit (gebur, petta...) that can be farmers, shepards, huntsmen, etc..., and when they win xp they can be train to infantry or archers.

Too, is important, in a time of Chaos, like was VII century, a man can do himself. You can born slave, and with luck and the strength of your arm (war) get wealth, booty etc... and thrive socially. I dont like limit this.

I think they are weak because Idibil didn't want people overusing bows in a period when they were not really common.

I think that realism should make the bow was in line with the time. 

I got my bow skills up to like 250+ and i could start being lethal, yeah one single archer is fairly inaccurate, but get 10 or 20 and unarmoured people start dropping like flies.. And if you flank some heavy troops you start dealing serious damage too.

Most archer companies at the 7th century weren't trained to unleash volleys while standing in lines (as being said before, most achers were militia and hunters, thus they're not used to fireing like this), but to hunt men in skirmishes. They mostly tried to aim with their bows at short range, supporting the infantry. This aiming reduced their reload speed, but also increased their accuracy, especially when fireing at their used short distance.

I do agree that archers could use a beef. I think that by increasing the accuracy and damage (with the last one being only a slightly increase!), while considerably increasing their reload speeds, you will achieve a nice balance if you do it right. 

Right. It is a option. Can you add it here plz:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,142381.0.html

Alls ideas are welcome, and I want improve combat system for next version.

[MrExpendable]

I think that the whole Warband recruiting system isn't very suitable for Brytenwalda. The recruiting/upgrade system allows the player to upgrade his men in any damn way he wishes without regards to the interests of the recruits themselves.

I thought of having a system, wereby recruiting locals into the army would apply for certain jobs. Like, when you go to a village and recruit men, a window appears saying "5 men wish to join the infantry", or "5 men wish to join the archery" with the last one being the one appearing the least. It could somehow reflect the interests asparent soldiers had during those times. Joining the shieldwall would definetly be more honourable and most importantly, you could rise really high if you had the skills. So more men would join the shieldwall rather than the archer companies.

This would however require not only some coding, but a complete revamp of the unit trees as well. I'm interested to see how this system could work out but I'm not demanding this as it's alot of work on behalf of the modder team.

Mm, it is a interesting idea, but I think that then you missing training factor. I mean say that a Warlord can have farmers that he training to archers, and huntmen that he training to infantry.
Actually, system let you choose that you need in second stage. You have low class recruit (gebur, petta...) that can be farmers, shepards, huntsmen, etc..., and when they win xp they can be train to infantry or archers.

Too, is important, in a time of Chaos, like was VII century, a man can do himself. You can born slave, and with luck and the strength of your arm (war) get wealth, booty etc... and thrive socially. I dont like limit this.

I think that recruits themselves would've liked to make their own choices. It's a bit like joining the army nowadays. You sign in to join whatever branch you wish (be it the airforce, marines, navy etc.). It's a free choice you make. And I think that in the 7th century, most unforced recruits would have had their preference on which branch they they wanted to join. Like you said, a man can do himself, make the choices he wishes. The infantry was probably the most popular choice (save for some Welsh tribes favouring the longbow).

I'm giving an example here. You're going to a certain village, and click "find recruits". Then a next window appears, saying "4 men wish to join the infantry". These men resemble the men who were interested in joining the shieldwall, a popular choice especially for many young Saxon men. The 4 infantry recruits are recruited to your ranks. They will then be trained to be seasoned infantry.

Same thing applies to archers. If a window appears saying "2 men wish to join the archery", then 2 archer recuits are recruited among your ranks. These recruits resemble men who like to be trained into good archers (there background mostly being hunters etc.)

If you can't find enough archers (or infantry, or cavalry), then you're forced to lay your hands on more expensive mercenaries to fill out that role. The idea is, to give the player a sense that archers were hard to come by, because most men wanted to join the infantry.

[Idibil]

are You talk of delete archers in troop tree and guard them like speacial troops? You could recruit them sometimes (8%, or 15% if they are welsh) for your army. But then, archers should be strong unit or player dont worry by it.

Mm, the best, if you wish, is do a poll. If players like this system, we can change it.

[Crossbow Joe]

If players like this system, we can change it.

I get your point and I always liked this approach from the brytenwalda team. Trial and error is actually a good way to test new things

[MrExpendable]

are You talk of delete archers in troop tree and guard them like speacial troops? You could recruit them sometimes (8%, or 15% if they are welsh) for your army. But then, archers should be strong unit or player dont worry by it.

Mm, the best, if you wish, is do a poll. If players like this system, we can change it.

What I'm talking about, is having the troop tree of each faction devided into 3. The infantry, the archers, and the cavalry. When you recruit men from villages, they will apply for a certain troop tree.

Troop trees can be like this:

archery: hunter -> skirmisher -> marksman -> expert marksman
infantry: infantry recruit -> infantry regular -> veteran warrior -> theign
cavalry: hobilar -> retainer -> ridire 

Just to give an example. Then you go to a village, click on "recruit men", wereby a window appears saying "2 men wish to join the archery". when clicking "take them" 2 hunters will join your army.
Same goes for other branches. When a window appears saying "3 men wish to join the cavalry", 3 hobilars will join your party.

It could also be done in a different way. If you click the "recruit men" button in the village, a party window appears. This party window contains infantry recruits, hunters, and hobilars to be recruited (with infantry recruits being the most available and the others having the highest chance of being absent). This allows you to code it so you can get men to fullfill different roles from the same village.

I don't know if you get it. If not, I'll try to make myself clearer by showing a better example, with screenshots from the game.

[Idibil]

yes, I understand you. With system of Brytenwalda it will be:

Option 1: Recruit (archer)
Option 2: Recruit infantry (that you will can add horse in future and do cavalry)

[MrExpendable]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Might be good to have the infantry have an option to upgrade to cavalry like you said. I'd like to see how this could work out. It could be worth a shot imo.

And I agree with Crossbow Joe, I'm very glad as well that you're open to suggestions.

[Idibil]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Might be good to have the infantry have an option to upgrade to cavalry like you said. I'd like to see how this could work out. It could be worth a shot imo.

And I agree with Crossbow Joe, I'm very glad as well that you're open to suggestions.

Mm, I was look code. I can add that some villages you can recruit archers. By example, villages near of forests
 (not all villages were hunters), it can be 11 villages in map (2 ireland, 3 Pictland and north britons, 3 welsh, and 1 dunmonia, 1 saxons kingdoms, 1 angle kingdoms)

With this system you can get archers in this villages or mercenaries only.

Before work in it, It is necesary a poll MrExpendable, if people like you idea, We can do it. I think that if you add poll today (for 3-4 days), and you get more of 20 votes positives, we can try add it for 1.31 version.

[MrExpendable]

Okay, I'm starting a poll in a new thread to see if people will like the idea.

Edit: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=143661.0