pictures of historical accurate replicas needed (weapons, armors, etc.)

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Hi, guys!
I'm a texturer of the Brytenwalda-Team.
And as a texturer of this mod, I allways need pictures of stuff used in the 7th century as reference, or source.
I put a lot of hours into the search for some good (highres) pictures of weapons, clothes, armors, patterns, etc.

But only one person (and a person who doesn't know much about this period) is a bit lost in the abyss of the wide internet  :???:
So I thought, here should be enough people who know more about this period than me and who have/could find some nice
pictures!

So, if you're interested in this mod and its period and want to see more awesome stuff for it, I could use your help :wink:

I'm allways looking for good pictures, with a high resolution (1000 pixels and more).
So if you have some, or find anything, please post it here! Thanks!

A nice collection-thread with pictures of historical accurate replicas (the original stuff is too rusted for usage^^),
would be a great help for me  :grin:

Cheers!
 
I already mentioned the exceptional Bamburgh Sword
http://www.bamburghcastle.com/history.php
But I think the pictures here are too small/showing too little, and uneven to use as texture.

Regia Anglorum seems like as reliable site to me and they have good info,
like this about swords: http://www.regia.org/warfare/sword.htm
 
When I have more time again, I really have to make some new sword-meshes
for those nice weapons^^
Now I don't have the time for and am only able to make textures for existing meshes,
but they all have really bad UVs, or too different shapes...
 
this one?
 
IMG_0447.jpg
 
Ähm... okay^^
For items like this simple axe I don't need pictures^^
Only the metal of the axe-head is good for use, because of the dints,
but usually I would do the texture for such an axe from scratch.

Did you see the swords in the caveman-paint-thread?
They are made of pictures! Doing them from scratch would take too much time,
because they have so many patterns.

What's really important are items with special patterns, or clothes and armors.
 
Hi!

Maybe you could focus  on the leather armor (some models used are very old , already used in 0.906 mount and blade mods).
I'm just back from a long trip into Norway, and I took this picture in Borg, in the viking museum. There is no archeological evidence about leather armor in the dark ages, but this is according to historian a good vivion of what it should have been


(very high res if you click on the picture!)
 
BrustwarzenLenny said:
Ähm... okay^^
For items like this simple axe I don't need pictures^^
Only the metal of the axe-head is good for use, because of the dints,
but usually I would do the texture for such an axe from scratch.

Did you see the swords in the caveman-paint-thread?
They are made of pictures! Doing them from scratch would take too much time,
because they have so many patterns.

What's really important are items with special patterns, or clothes and armors.

fine...understood  :oops:
 
trinkof said:
Hi!

Maybe you could focus  on the leather armor (some models used are very old , already used in 0.906 mount and blade mods).
I'm just back from a long trip into Norway, and I took this picture in Borg, in the viking museum. There is no archeological evidence about leather armor in the dark ages, but this is according to historian a good vivion of what it should have been


(very high res if you click on the picture!)
There is, as you say, no historical or archaeological evidence of leather armor being used in this period at all, and as that Viking reenactor is purely hypothetical I would personally appreciate not seeing anything similar in a historical mod.
 
@ Scandinav

And of course, the only reason there is no evidence (according to medieval archelogist and scientist) is that leather doesen't last for more than 200 years... (so hell's angels jacket's will be forgotten in 200 years  :grin:).... but leather is used for body armor since neanderthal (and maybe earlier)...

This type of armor is described in every military books (osprey series  etc...)
And, military historians describe this time area, being an extension of late roman times (just like for clovis with frankish....) and latev romans knew : lamelar amors, leather amros etc....
(evidence found of leather lamelar armors in roman times)

furthermore, the picture I posted on the forum, is based (from what I read), from scandinavian archeologist....

viking saga mentioned leather armors... and the only reason we found only a few mail armor is that (arcoding to specialits), leather doesn't last for enough years for us to find it! 
 
Not at all, though leather often do not survive that long we have leather finds as old as 5000 years, and I've never doubted that leather has been used in war but I am yet to be convinced that leather armor was used in this period. There is no source for it in the Viking Age or in Medieval Europe for example.

This type of armor is not described in every military book as you say, I know some Osprey books have speculated without historical or archaeological basis but this wouldn't be the first time and Osprey books aren't always serious sources ( except for their primary source references of course ).

Also is there nowhere in the saga material mentioned leather armor, only some reindeer clothes are mentioned and this were enchanted with protective capabilities not armor in its own right.
And certainly, the picture you posted may be based on what a Scandinavian archaeologist thinks, but again it is no more than mere speculation on his part; there isn't a single mention of it anywhere, nothing in the historical record nor any finds or anything in iconography to support it.

Which Roman leather armors are you referring to I wonder ? You know the Greek linothorax was most likely linen, right ?

The leather armor discussion is an old one; there will always be people for or against and mostly these discussions end up in circle arguments over illustrations or statues of uncolored or badly colored lamellar which one part argues is leather the other metal.. But any serious reenactors I've seen voice their opinions on the matter ( for example in MyArmoury.com ) all seem to agree that leather is poor protection and that cloth is much preferable.
And please show me real proof ( that isn't a modern rendition based on absolutely nothing ) of leather lamellar or any other period leather armor as though archaeology hasn't come up with anything historical sources or illustrations likely would if it was used at all.
 
Okay, I agree with you in most part :

_no archeological evidence
_in saga, that was enchanted clothes
_(I know linthorax  :grin: and I talked about leather in roman times)
_ .... and this is an endless debate!  :grin:
_leather lasts long, but in my mind wasn't found, cause most items found were funeral armors from chief and warlords etc.... and leather could has been worn by regular soldiers  .

But... if we only refere to archeology, we put 10 chainmail 30 helmet, 80 swords and 200 spears on the game area .... and that's it.

The picture I submited is not from med-fan etc... it's not archeology, but for my part, it's not insane to think about it
 
I would say, build a time-machine, travel back into the british 7th century, take some pictures and come back, so we
can do a 100% proofed, historical mod.
Or see a game and a mod as a game and a mod and think about playability, satisfying gameplay, eyecandy
and variety!

You'll never find a game which is 100% historical accurate!
First, because we'll never know how the times were and all the stuff they really used
and second, because it wouldn't make sense for games!

Games are for fun!
For History you have books and some TV-channels.
That's my opinion!

We can try to reconstruct this period, but we shouldn't call us ourself all knowing scientists and forget that this is just a game!
And I, as an artist, prefer variety in a game, instead of only tons of different tunics and some mailshirts.
For me, it's enough if it is possible that they used a specific armor, but we don't have any evidence.

And why shouldn't they've used lamellar-armor? Leather was available, the technic was known for ages and it's a cheap, but
usefull equipment.

But if you want to only see historical known armors, not just tunics, than give me some advice!
Send me pictures of all the various armors we know they really used!
I'm a bit tired of allways seeing all troops in the same tunics and mailshirts  :wink:
 
I think that the leather lamellar looks great and would certainly enhance the variety of armours on the field, and as such make it a more satisfying game. A mod can have a historical grounding without being 100% accurate, I mean every creative thing wether it be film game or novel will take small liberties and assumptions, we will never know exactly what those periods were like, so its better to take some creative license and make it a really cool game than have a game thats boring and 100% accurate.
 
BrustwarzenLenny said:
I would say, build a time-machine, travel back into the british 7th century, take some pictures and come back, so we
can do a 100% proofed, historical mod.
Or see a game and a mod as a game and a mod and think about playability, satisfying gameplay, eyecandy
and variety!

You'll never find a game which is 100% historical accurate!
First, because we'll never know how the times were and all the stuff they really used
and second, because it wouldn't make sense for games!

Games are for fun!
For History you have books and some TV-channels.
That's my opinion!

We can try to reconstruct this period, but we shouldn't call us ourself all knowing scientists and forget that this is just a game!
And I, as an artist, prefer variety in a game, instead of only tons of different tunics and some mailshirts.
For me, it's enough if it is possible that they used a specific armor, but we don't have any evidence.

And why shouldn't they've used lamellar-armor? Leather was available, the technic was known for ages and it's a cheap, but
usefull equipment.

But if you want to only see historical known armors, not just tunics, than give me some advice!
Send me pictures of all the various armors we know they really used!
I'm a bit tired of allways seeing all troops in the same tunics and mailshirts  :wink:

A kinda hard finding some of those images
Leather Jerkins was said to be used as well.
Maybe some old Roman armor and weapons?
Romans left around the 6th century, so the left over armor
and weapons could of been of use
 
Here some pictures, from osprey series




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Sorry Idibil, I was fighting with internet and imageshak... I made my post and didn't see yours... and I see we read the same books  :grin:
 
BrustwarzenLenny said:
I would say, build a time-machine, travel back into the british 7th century, take some pictures and come back, so we
can do a 100% proofed, historical mod.
Or see a game and a mod as a game and a mod and think about playability, satisfying gameplay, eyecandy
and variety!

You'll never find a game which is 100% historical accurate!
First, because we'll never know how the times were and all the stuff they really used
and second, because it wouldn't make sense for games!

Games are for fun!
For History you have books and some TV-channels.
That's my opinion!

We can try to reconstruct this period, but we shouldn't call us ourself all knowing scientists and forget that this is just a game!
And I, as an artist, prefer variety in a game, instead of only tons of different tunics and some mailshirts.
For me, it's enough if it is possible that they used a specific armor, but we don't have any evidence.

And why shouldn't they've used lamellar-armor? Leather was available, the technic was known for ages and it's a cheap, but
usefull equipment.

But if you want to only see historical known armors, not just tunics, than give me some advice!
Send me pictures of all the various armors we know they really used!
I'm a bit tired of allways seeing all troops in the same tunics and mailshirts  :wink:
There is of course the so-called Rule of Cool ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool ) which most mainstream games, movies and books ( not real history books of course ) adhere to and I may be rigid about these things but I personally think that historical accuracy is cooler and that going by a hypothesis only is a dangerous road to travel.
There is also the off-chance that people might learn some history by playing the mod.

It does not necessarily have to be dull or very limiting whatsoever to stay with absolute historical proof. We have done this in AD1257, ( almost ) nothing there is thesis ( not even when it was most alluring ) and I think this, in the context of historical mods, adds a level of immersion and accountability to the game world.
That said, I know of course that sources on these things are long in between in the Dark Ages and much is shrouded in myth and legend, but that doesn't mean high research standards shouldn't be kept - or strived for - of course, and I really think that at least some kind of evidence should be put forward not only Weasel Words like "some say" or "many historians agree that" etc. etc. lest it becomes a fantasy mod.

But of course some degree of conjecture might be applied within reason, for example that scale armor ( metal, not leather ) was used on the continent in the period, and earlier in the British Isles, but the reason should in my humble opinion not be just to have more variety in armors.
Tunics and mail was definitely the predominant type of armor in the period and I do not see how this would limit eventual modelers and texturers, as frankly unlimited beautiful variants could be made and add to that helmets, shields and numerous other armaments. The craftsmanship of this period is generally very exquisite and stylished, and offers as such great possibilities for creative souls.
And for those odd items that could be included for eye-candy only, and with little or no historical basis, they could for example be present but at the same time be very scarce - perhaps only available at a town vendor somewhere or worn by some obscure or foreign NPC or another.

And I still don't agree with the leather arguments, would any please prove to me that it was even used here earlier ? For anything else than backing or as surcoats for protection against the elements, that is.

But in thread with the above approach of conjecture, Vendel period ( Swedish culture in the mod's years ) armaments might be appropriate for the Jutes. Some examples ( many of these helmets are already made by Dejawolf or Rath0s for the Vikingr mod, formerly known as the Einherjar mod ) :

estrella3070.jpg
A9DesktopResolution3.jpg
as2.jpg
halfdan.jpg
Valsgardewarrior.jpg
Helm03.jpg
Image119.jpg
MHandV72_pct14a_26.jpg
MHandV72_pct15a_26.jpg
NewV6.jpg
periodhelms.jpg
v5.jpg
valsgarde_museum_gustavianum_medium.jpg
ValsgardeV_right.jpg
vendelhelmet1.jpg
VendelXIV_front.jpg

An interesting discussion on equipment of the Vendel Period : http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=12914&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=lorica+squamata&start=0
 
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