[B] Combat Animation Enhancement - Fifth Release with Trailer 15/11/10

[Merlkir]

Here's the second draft of the one-handed attack from the right - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZaxzdAxvs

I think I might need a third draft to tidy up the actual cutting part and change some hand positions, but I think I've solved the robot problem, and I'm quite happy with the overall feel of this one.

Compare how much the attack stretches to the side and how much the backhand does. If you're attacking someone right in front of you, it'll work. If you want to use it for someone more to the side, it's impossible.

[Papa Lazarou]

Thrust animation is good (mention to trunk,legs,and feet motion : very natural)
But the sword placement is way too high, ...

Thanks for the comment. Do you mean the sword is too high in the starting pose, or during the attack? When the arm is fully extended, the swordhand is directly in front of the shoulder in this animation, but maybe it doesn't get in front of the shoulder early enough. I'll definitely take this on board for the next draft.

Wouldn't it make more sense to thrust from the centre?

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I chose a high position so it would be easy to see coming, and would blend smoothly with the other attacks. Though now that I think about it, I might test out a lower position when I get to animating the one-handed spear thrusts - I can just copy them over to the sword to see how the blending looks, and then animate a proper low thrust for the sword if I decide that's a good idea.

Compare how much the attack stretches to the side and how much the backhand does. If you're attacking someone right in front of you, it'll work. If you want to use it for someone more to the side, it's impossible.

Yeah, I think so too. For the next draft I'll try a much shallower angle for the cut, and make it longer.

[Aeon]

Thanks for the comment. Do you mean the sword is too high in the starting pose, or during the attack? When the arm is fully extended, the swordhand is directly in front of the shoulder in this animation, but maybe it doesn't get in front of the shoulder early enough. I'll definitely take this on board for the next draft.

Ideally, the blade tip should match with sight. Because this is an accurate attack wich require to aim.
So yes I meant starting pose, assuming the extension strike follow it : with arm/elbow/shoulder (almost) on the same line.



But I don't know if it might cause too trouble to interpolate such pose with previous slash (high) ones ?
Just try your best

[ares007]

This looks great!

Here's the second draft of the one-handed attack from the right - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZaxzdAxvs

I think I might need a third draft to tidy up the actual cutting part and change some hand positions, but I think I've solved the robot problem, and I'm quite happy with the overall feel of this one.

Compare how much the attack stretches to the side and how much the backhand does. If you're attacking someone right in front of you, it'll work. If you want to use it for someone more to the side, it's impossible.

Personally, I would prefer a more forward-focused attack. It would require more precision in duels (and duelists are generally more elitist and prefer more "advanced" gameplay), but also make group fighting more natural so you don't cut into people to the sides you didn't want to.

[Papa Lazarou]

Thanks, ares. I think it will still be more forward-focused than the attacks in Native, because the weapon won't move far out to the sides. Even when I make it shallower and longer, the main part of the cut will still start and end well in front of the character (unlike the Native animation, which starts and ends beside the character). That's the hope anyway.

Ideally, the blade tip should match with sight. Because this is an accurate attack wich require to aim.
So yes I meant starting pose, assuming the extension strike follow it : with arm/elbow/shoulder (almost) on the same line.

At this point I'd say I plan to keep the high starting pose, because I want it to look like a position one could stand in for a good while (like a fencing guard). I might try revising the technique for the actual attack though, so that the sword drops into the shoulder line earlier in the movement. I think that might actually help the blending to look more natural as well. Thanks a lot for the feedback on this - good food for thought.

[ares007]

You could make the stabbing position an "ochs" (essentially what you have, but with the sword closer to head level). This is a guard in Renaissance fencing and can be held for a long period of time.


Oh, and another thing to consider: how will these chambers and end positions look with chamber blocking?

[Papa Lazarou]

Yeah I was going for an ochs-esque position, and I think I will move the sword a bit closer to the head in the next draft.

As for chamber-blocking, I expect most of the ready positions will be pretty much alright if you chamber-block from the neutral position. If instead you attack, miss, and then immediately circle into another attack which is a chamber-block, it will quite probably look ridiculous (the attack would bounce off thin air). At least for one-handed weapons. I don't really think that will be a big problem though, since I expect it's very rare for someone to make a chamber-block immediately after missing another attack.

I have some vague ideas for it, but in the end chamber-blocking might end up looking a bit worse in my mod than it does in Native. With the current mechanics, I'm not sure there's any way to have both sequential attacks and chamber-blocking look nice. But who knows - it might end up looking fine, from the neutral position at least.

[Papa Lazarou]

New One-handed Block Positions

Here they are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgssTkg-GfY

Just single-frame positions at the moment. I'm mostly happy with them, apart from the low block. God only knows how to make that look any good (so if you are amongst my watchers, Lord, feel free to make suggestions). The idea for that low block position is that I'd animate a short, rising punch-like movement which would play when an incoming thrust was blocked. I've considered putting in similar movements for all the blocks, but I won't be attempting that for a while.

I'm also not quite sure how suitable these block positions are for things like maces and axes. I think they work tolerably and it might not matter too much since those weapons are rarely used without a shield, but maybe there are other positions that would work for all one-handers.

I also made a video which shows most of my recent animations in a fight. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CIOXJgCrJI

Next I plan to animate a one-handed cut from the left, another draft of the one-handed cut from the right, and maybe some blocks for the two-handed swords.

[Night Ninja]

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I chose a high position so it would be easy to see coming, and would blend smoothly with the other attacks. Though now that I think about it, I might test out a lower position when I get to animating the one-handed spear thrusts - I can just copy them over to the sword to see how the blending looks, and then animate a proper low thrust for the sword if I decide that's a good idea.

I was thinking more of a 'pflug'-esque position that thrusts into langort. The high thrust is suboptimal for range.

Though yeah, the high thrust does blend in a lot better with the current animations.

EDIT: Also, new blocks look great, they look a lot like sabre guards. I especially like the left block, resembles a hanging guard.

EDIT 2: Would it be possible to animate a beat to the sword for the low block?

[Longshaft]

Wow dude, this looks amazing, especially the second draft.

[Merlkir]

Papa, could you also add additional blocking for left and right? (the animation used to be picked at random iirc if you had more than one)

You have a block point down for the left and point up for the right, there could be reverse ones for both. (ie - left block point up and right block point down - I like the point down ones especially, because they more like deflect the sword down and let you attack immediately.)

[Kovas]

Nice!

[Papa Lazarou]

Thanks, Kovas!

I was thinking more of a 'pflug'-esque position that thrusts into langort. The high thrust is suboptimal for range.

I think I'll keep the high ready position for now, and experiment with a low ready position when I animate one-handed spears. If it blends well and is readable (not hopeful on either count) I might change the sword thrusts to start low.

This thrust was supposed to have the arm fully extended with the hand in line with the shoulder (a position similar to langort I suppose), but it didn't quite come through. Like I said before, I'll probably have the hand drop into the shoulder line earlier in the movement, and make sure the arm really gets fully straight in the next draft.

EDIT: Also, new blocks look great, they look a lot like sabre guards. I especially like the left block, resembles a hanging guard.

Thanks! I hope that doesn't make them anachronistic 

Other issues here are the skill-level and, as I mentioned before, equipment of different characters. Arguably a river pirate with a falchion shouldn't use the same blocks as a Swadian knight with an arming sword or Nord huscarl with a one-handed axe. (And arguably none of them should use techniques that I half plagiarised and half made up, but we won't go into that.)

EDIT 2: Would it be possible to animate a beat to the sword for the low block?

Possibly. I was hoping for something similar to a beat (if I understand the term) for a later draft of the low block (and possibly the other blocks as well for that matter). The idea was that the weapon would lie in wait, and then move up and across to deflect the thrust when it made contact. The game has animations that play when the block is struck (mostly the blocking weapon gives slightly), so the hope is that I can replace those with something like a beat, when it comes to the thrust attack. Good chance it will look terrible of course, but we'll see.

Papa, could you also add additional blocking for left and right? (the animation used to be picked at random iirc if you had more than one)

I think so, yes. I've had randomly selected animations working in the original M&B anyway. Normally I'm against random animations, unless the differences are small, since I like to have direct control over what the character does, but I think for blocks it might be a good thing. The block positions are very quick to make and implement, so I'll probably make point-up and point-down versions (and point-left/-right for upward blocks) wherever they seem to make sense, and see how I feel about them.


Which reminds me - I hope to get feedback from some kind of beta-like process in the future. That way I can hear other opinions on things like randomised animations, readability of attacks and general aesthetics, as well as having more eyes to spot problems with the mesh or with blending. There's only so much you can tell from stills and videos after all.

I'm (supposed to be) a bit busy at the moment, but I hope to have another attack animation done in the next few days. If not, should have one out by next Tuesday or so.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, everyone!

[Outlawed]

Absolutely gorgeous, this.
I can't endorse it more!

Now for some CC =p

The everything overhand idea is quite a breakthrough I must say. It makes things look so much smoother and more realistic.
I think the thrust animation however needs to be lowered a bit to match the shoulder, it doesn't make much sense I think for the fighter to try and bring the thrust 'down' on their opponent unless said opponent has a shield. Which is sometimes the case in Warband.

The blocks:
I think the blocks look rather nice, but I also think they might require parry animations after the block is made. If someone can have a mace in that left block position, block a two-handed long axe swing and keep the hand there I would be impressed =p, but since this is Warband and things much more ridiculous occur, I guess its fine, just an idea.

[Papa Lazarou]

Yep, I'm planning to make most of those changes. Thanks for the support!


New One-handed Cut from the Left

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsMKhIZSKNI

I think it's my best so far, but I might add a frame or two at the end to improve the blending (though I think it actually looks smoother in-game than in the video). Blending from the other cut will improve when I do another draft of that one. I was pretty happy with the angle and height of the cut in this one, especially the fact that the weapon is actually aligned properly this time =P

Next up is another draft of the one-handed cut from the right, or maybe some two-handed blocks.