Secondary Attacks: a how-to (with pictures!)

[Raz]

Well actually admins, this idea with a comparable presentation has already been suggested before, not a long time ago.
But I definately find it a good idea.

[Destichado]

To clarify, for Easybreath and Merentha. 

Actually, the shoulders should be much more rotated in (A), but if I drew it that way, you couldn't see much of anything.      "Thou shalt not turn thy back to thy audiance" is just as true for drawings as it is for stage, sorry to say.



I was going to go ahead and take pictures for examples instead, but all the hassle of hauling out the tripod, grabbing all the weapons I'd need, taking two or three dozen pictures and assembling them all into a collage in Photoshop just... ehn.  didn't seem worth it.  You know? 

[Merentha]

Cool, thanks for the clarification.  Okay, I like the suggestion.

Possible secondary attacks, for two-handers:
High : a kick
Left or right: the pommel strikes.
Stab : This one is a bit harder.  Two ideas:  one, step into a hangen (or is it hengen?) , which could potentially activate a block, then pommelstrike downwards.  The second is more specific to swords, where you would grab the blade with your left hand, push up and release with your right, then move the right to the blade and murderstroke.

Polearms:
Various bashes with the shaft, I don't know enough about spear combat to accurately say more.

Shielded one-handers:
Bashes, obviously. 

[Destichado]

Oh dear.   

I guess I'll go ahead and take those pictures tomorrow.    I *think* I have examples of most M&B weapons... 

[Merentha]

Well, thank you.  I'm not thinking my clearest tonight, for various reasons.   

[Paradukes]

Polearms:
Various bashes with the shaft, I don't know enough about spear combat to accurately say more.

Watch Troy 


I really like the idea of alternate attacks, simply because it'd mix mele combat up a bit. As it stands, I only ever use horse archery.

[Taka]

It might be best to run it where the left click is your attack prep, releace for the primary attack.  Then, you hit the right click to defend, but immediatly go left click for a much faster but much weaker secondary.  Just my two bits.  I love the idea, as it's historicaly acurate AND would be fun, AND would be cool to use.  My only question is wether or not it can be coded in at this point, it woudl require a new animation at least, and probobly some monkeying with the combat engine, and restatting all of the weapons. 

[Amman de Stazia]

As for the commanding, I personally would prefer a 'shift' style, that you have to HOLD a second key and press your attack button, like you need to hold shift and press 4 for the $ sign.

[Joza]

Id like the double click system more because its more logical to have all fighting things in mouse and double clicking is a little bit easier than pressing the shift.

[Amman de Stazia]

yes, easier in that it keps all your combat with one hand.  Here, though, are the advantages of involving the second hand:
You will always make a secondary attack when you want to do so, instead of sometimes discovering that your double-click wasn't fast enoughand ending up with a normal attack.   or no attack.
It allows you to forget completely what you do with the combat hand - attack or defend, thats the only choice.   The other hand makes all the other decisions.
It keeps the choices of how to attack with the 'non-mouse' hand - at the moment, if you prefer a slash to a stab, you maneouvre with the moevvement keys to be in position.  If your movement keys are ASDW, and you make Lshift the secondary attack trigger, then it is part of the same thing and all you have to do is hold your little finger on it.

And, if my player has exceptionally high weapon-speed, and wields a very fast weapon, I can get two primary attacks in with a 'slow' double-click.  I'd not want this to be impossible because slow doubleclicks were recognised as a secondary attack instead.

[Tarrak]

Cool, thanks for the clarification.  Okay, I like the suggestion.

Possible secondary attacks, for two-handers:
High : a kick
Left or right: the pommel strikes.
Stab : This one is a bit harder.  Two ideas:  one, step into a hangen (or is it hengen?) , which could potentially activate a block, then pommelstrike downwards.  The second is more specific to swords, where you would grab the blade with your left hand, push up and release with your right, then move the right to the blade and murderstroke.

Hmm... Exchange stab and high and it would be nice.

High: Downward pommelbash. The stance seems very much to indicate how easy this would be.

Stab: Kick. With the hands somewhat backwards, there is little they can do where the tip and blade isn't easier to use, but a kick could help the situation.

[Destichado]

Try a hilt strike.   
From that position you're simply rotaing the sword around its own center of mass, that means the movement is easier and faster than either thrusting or swinging.  And I can tell you from personal experience that being punched with the cross-hilt of a sword hurts like a BITCH. 

Pictures coming.



And I'm with Amman d' Stazia.  Using a "shift" style, rather than a double-click kind of thing allows you to make the decision whether or not to commit to a secondary!  Holding the Secondary Attack key by itself would do nothing.  While you're holding the attack button, you can change your mind about which attack to make as many times as you want, because it's only the RELEASE that matters.  That way you could completely ignore all secondary attacks, if you wanted.  The beauty of M&B is that It's a very simple, INTUATIVE, user-friendly system.  The last thing I want to do is complicate it.

[phbbbt107]

Perhaps you could press LMB abnd RMB at the same time for secondary attack? Or push down the MMB (middle mouse button) for the secondary attack. 3 button mice are fairly common now right?

[Eogan]

That dual-wielding pic is EXACTLY to type of dual-wielding I'd like to see.  For such a configuration, the secondary attack buttons should use the off-hand axe.  Stab= stab with spear tip, Overhand= butt-strike, L&R= punch with blade.

Perhaps you could press LMB abnd RMB at the same time for secondary attack? Or push down the MMB (middle mouse button) for the secondary attack. 3 button mice are fairly common now right?

I like the mb3 idea, but it doesn't have much support around here.  I think I like the shift key idea the best.  That way, when you prepare an attack, you don't have to commit to what kind of attack it is.  When I came up with the double-click idea I didn't remember how much I hate double-clicking.  In fact, I've got my middle mouse button reprogrammed to double click, and my double-click speed maxxed out so that, even if I try, I can only get it to work 1 in 3 times.

Stupid double-clicking.

L+RMB is currently what is used to cancel an attack.  It should NOT be messed with.

[Merentha]

Try a hilt strike.   
From that position you're simply rotaing the sword around its own center of mass, that means the movement is easier and faster than either thrusting or swinging.  And I can tell you from personal experience that being punched with the cross-hilt of a sword hurts like a BITCH. 

Pictures coming.

Hence the murder stroke idea from the ochs-esque position.

Tarrak: a downward pommelstrike like you suggest is really awkward unless the person is really close.  Do you know what hangen is?

And I'm with Amman d' Stazia.  Using a "shift" style, rather than a double-click kind of thing allows you to make the decision whether or not to commit to a secondary!  Holding the Secondary Attack key by itself would do nothing.  While you're holding the attack button, you can change your mind about which attack to make as many times as you want, because it's only the RELEASE that matters.  That way you could completely ignore all secondary attacks, if you wanted.  The beauty of M&B is that It's a very simple, INTUATIVE, user-friendly system.  The last thing I want to do is complicate it.

Thats another reason I am very enamored of this idea.