Item degraDion...

Yep...as it says, I think items should degrade as they are used. Weapons, armor, the whole lot...when reaching the lowest grade, there should be a chance for weapons breaking in combat, armor being cut off etc.

Reason for this little wish is severalfold:

1. Earning money in the game isn't too hard. Once you have everything you possibly want, there won't really be any major expenses around anymore.

2. Getting good items occur relatively fast too. Sure, when you make a new char, getting a decent armor may take a tiny bit of while, but once you have a good enough of an army, then that won't really be much of a problem anymore either. Item degradion would make item hunting/item maintenance a bigger priority.

3. If repairs are to be possible (and I bet a countersuggestion would be to be able to repair items as well), then they should only do partial repairs...that is, after 2-3 repairs, any further repairs won't bring the item quality back up to what it originally was, and as you keep repairing, the max quality that you can reach will drop until it reaches a point where it gets so old and used that repairs are pointless...

By that time tho, I'm pretty sure that replacement items will have been found.

And maybe shops chould have a minimum quality requirement as well: that is, they won't sell any rusty and cracked armors/weapons and such...these can only be found as loot...

*Edited for spelling *

Sorry skyrage, but I'm going to be a bit of a snot here. The word is degrade. The noun is degradation. As for the suggestion, it's been made before, but I'd tend to say it'd just be annoying. Maybe if you could fix it, and keep fixing it for as long as you had the gear, I wouldn't mind the stuff wearing out once in awhile. But as silly as it sounds, I have a somewhat sentimental attachment to some of that gear. I've had my thick Nordic helmet since very early on, and really, finding another one of equal quality is nowhere near as easy as you make it out to be. Personally, I think the better way to go would be to introduce methods of caring for the armor yourself. Over time, your armor can get rusty, so you buy a polishing kit. Your sword can get dull, so you buy a whet stone. But I wouldn't like it if my equipment broke, and there was nothing I could do about it.

Meh...sorry bout the bad word heh..."degrade" isn't really a word that I've been using much at all and english isn't exactly my first language either

And as for items breaking...the time before that happens would be quite long, at least if you make the needed repairs every now and then...I simply don't like that items are totally indestructible and can be used forever one battle after another...

Properly caring for equipment is an essential component of the warrior's life, and I would like to see this reflected in-game. I agree that it would give us something to do with all that money. Sharpening swords and polishing out rust are excellent suggestions.

Sorry Skyrage, but I like Greenknight's idea much better. The idea of losing items that I have come to love, adore, and depend on doesn't sound that great to me. But Greenknight offered a great solution for the surplus money and how to best handle it.

Just my thoughts,

Narcissus

Maybe not an across-the-board item system, but something with parry. Fights seem to drag on and on if the guy I'm after is good at parrying. Maybe a point system in place for that atleast?

I'll give a big -1 to item "maintenance" that resembles anything sort of item maintenace system that has been put in a game already. No system created (that I've seen) has done anything but add extra tedium to the game in which it has been implemented; when I want to deal with tedious time-sinks I'll play one of the MMOG's I'm subscribed to

If some system along these lines could be added that introduced something interesting to the game, then I would be all for it of course.

I would like to see new skills to equipment care like

Weapon care could require hammer, anvil, appropriate metals.
and
Armour care could require hammer, anvil, metals, leather...

I think it would be kinda cool to be able to sharpen your sword, and polish your quarterstaff. Ahem. Have like a polishing minigame, that could make your metal armor shinier, and this could make enemies close to you slower by shining in their face.

wait, did you means something like item durability?

I don't think weapon maintenance would be a good idea, it would make the ame tedious, and slow it's pace, perhaps a small amount of your money could be taken every week as a percentage of your ki just for maintenance, and your arms, and armour might degrade in their properties if you can't afford to take care of them.

I think a 'polishing mini-game' would become tedious VERY quickly. Trust me, it's not that fun polishing the real stuff

Jez XxX

If you had to polish it frequently after each battle, yes...it would become tedious. But i don't think anyone is suggesting that it be done that often. My idea is, items have a durability rating, and degrade with use. You can purchase polishing kits and whatnot, but when used only restore a certain percentage of the items' lost durability. So basically, maintaining your equipment every few battles delays its inevitable destruction. I don't really see how having to replace equipment every 30 or 40 battles is tedious, and how can you have an attachment to a piece of equipment? Its the exact same as another piece of the same type and grade. For me, it gets rather boring having the best equipment in the game, and never ever having to equip my character again.

I really like the idea, actually. It's ok to be sentimentally attached to your items, but let's face it - M&B is a game that likes to stay as far in the bounds of realism as possible; armor and weapons are not indestructible, as has already been said, and for them never to break just because one has a fondness for one's nordic helmet is silly.

Besides, it's not as if this would happen over the course of a single battle, or even 10 battles - it'd be a matter of how often that armor or weapon was struck/used, and its quality, and it could be repaired. So, really, I think it sounds like a good idea, and a nod toward realism.

Ye durability is sure an issue, i actually think that having some durability points and then repairing them again and again is tedious is boring.
I would rather keep what we have now or have it all the way realistic.

A kenjutsu shidoshi i had the privilage of studying under for short period said that people would go into battle with one weapon and then exit with another - that was reffering to the low grade weapons and the amount of impact a weapon would recieve in unskilled hands. (for example when you perry with a katana you need to make sure the opponent weapon hit the side of the blade, for less risk of breaking or damaging the blade)

Quote "spears were often designed such that the spear tip broke off upon impact with the target", this refers mostly to hitting a moving target, breaking the tip would save you from being totally slammed with the target (for example hitting a cavalier), and also keeping some sort of weapon meanwhile. (this may seem odd for a spearman, but keep in mind spears were also vastly used by archers as a backup weapon, so it would mostly serve as a defense weapon against charging opponents)

A lot about battle those days was what you had and what would work .
First time i played m&b i actually found myself using crossbows because -they worked- (and i rarely use ranged weapons in games), and also used a weapon which i had bad skill at and didn't plan to even try using because it was all i could afford.
Realistic durability make you respect better weapons, know your limits, and prepare that the next day your best weapon may break and you'll need to live with that. (which would make you grow a lot more attached to the more reliable high grade weapons, that you can keep in better shape)

That goes hand in hand with picking up weapons from the battlefield, and also other things which i'm too tired to mention (need Zzz) - just having durability system which makes you go to the blacksmith each time is tedious and pointless imo, but one that makes your weapons/armors show the wear (ala ultima underworld), actually function worse on lower durability, break depending on weapon would bring immersion instead of annoyance for me, and would be a hardcore experience if done right.

I'm with you, Svart. I like the idea of equipment becoming old and worn as time passes. Perhaps you could use a system something like Betrayal at Krondor, where you can if you are skilled, and feel like investing the time, slow your equipment's decline (maybe at 10 skill, you could even keep it in like-new form *shrug*). But, inevitably, weapons break, armor can only be dented and bent back so many times before becoming too brittle to really help anymore, horses get old and worn down from nicks and scrapes in battle. Maybe, if the player can eventually gain a holding, like a castle or something, he could interact with the mantle, and other hangers about the place, each with a single inventory slot. Thus, your cherished sentimental pieces could become items of reference for and atmosphere. But most weapons would be sold for scrap (way less than purchase price, mostly based on weight) or left on the field where they broke, and you drew your back-up short-sword and forged onward, farewell, Sword of War, I shall remember you *ques sad bagpipe music and stands reverently on a hill*

Forget the earlier post (the one this was going to be). I decided in the end that, looking at how shields are done in this game, item durability would not fit M&B very well. The only thing that could be suggested is that weapons can break in combat in the same way shields can. However, they can break while being used to attack and not only when blocking.

Even so, the only cases it would really be "fun" are these:

When swords clash with swords
When couched lances clash with APPROACHING enemy riders
When set spears clash with APPROACHING enemy riders

Other than these, I don't really care for items breaking all over the place.

=$= Big J Money =$=

I'd like it. No, I'd love it. I do tend to get attached to a certain peice of gear in games where it is static. However, I find that I enjoy the experience of a system where things can fail me, and I may have to improvise.

On the keep wielding broken weapon idea: What if a broken weapon stayed in your hand, and was basically a punch weapon with damage equivalent to 1/4 of the original item's weight? Also, hitting the "switch weapon" key would drop the broken weapon.

I know shields gain the 'battered' characteristic over time, why not have weapons lose stats as well? It would have to take a long time, but 'rusty' could be picked up by not having a whetstone, and 'bent' if it gets used very often without a high skill. (a more skilled person can keep his sword better). The one exception is lances. personally, i feel that they should be cheaper, and far less durable, especially the great and jousting lances. In battle, after the first couched hit (unless your skill, either the weapon skill or a new weapon maintanence skill, is really high), it should get the 'bent' characteristic. after a few more, the 'cracked' characteristic. after about 10 hits, it should break completely. This would be more realistic, first of all, and decreases the incredibly awesome power of a lancer. I mean, jousting lances were designed to shatter on the first blow...So, it adds balance and realism.

I don't think shields become "battered" over time. It's the same as your horse: whenever a shield breaks in combat it has a %chance of becoming battered. It's armagan's abstract way of doing exactly what we're asking for without sacrificing gameplay. I really like your lance idea, but it just doesn't fit with the system. If you wanted to make it match M&B style, it would work a little more like this:

After several hits with a lance, it would break. This would probably be handled in a way similar to shields, except that it happens every time the lance DEALS damage, not when it receives it. When it breaks, you still get it back after the fight, but there is a chance it will become bent, or cracked, or whatever.

That's a bit more like what we could expect to see, I think.

Lethandis said:

I do tend to get attached to a certain peice of gear in games where it is static. However, I find that I enjoy the experience of a system where things can fail me, and I may have to improvise.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. I think that's the essence of what armagan's implementation of "breakable shields" is all about. Makes you kind of feel like you're he hero of your own war movie. If armagan ever switches genres on us, I hope he does a High Seas Pirate game. Surely not until after M&B II, of course!!

=$=

PS -- It's also the same thing I just said above, but I didn't go into all this detail.

Yes, that would work, but i also feel that arrows and bolts should be used up, and that eventually a lance should break. A bent lance isnt that much worse than a normal one when you can couch for over 100 points consistently (thats with a cracked lance) Swords and axes should be fine, but arrows and lances should be disposable commodities (this ties into the 'too much $' thread as well)