A Simple Qualis *Cheat*

Well CD Projekt Red claims the new Witcher - if they ever release it - is going to be much harder than the original.  And, back on topic, PoP 3 is going to be harder!

M0rdred said:

Thats how I felt with Warcraft III and WoW, comparing those to Warcraft 2 was heartbreaking.

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WoW certainly seemed like a disgrace, since it took away a lot of possible plot expansion from future (assuming there is any in the making) Warcraft RTS. As for WC3, I hated it mainly because of 1) heroes (they probably did it to diversify the Warcraft business from the Starcraft one ... I still remember early Starcraft screenshots, it was basically Warcraft 2 with reskinned units/landscapes) 2) lack of navy (naval + air battles as well as the entire oil business were one of the best WC2 features ... it felt innovative and played well) 3) dumb unit rosters (how could they even think about dissolving the horde, and removing the ogres, axe-throwing trolls, dragons and death knights !? and all of this just to add two sucky races, which added nothing to the game).

There are more sad examples, like Supreme Commander ---> ('streamlined') -----> Supreme Commander 2. Even if SC was nowhere as superb as Total Annihilation back in the days, it still felt and played great, and introduced another generation into land+air+sea sci-fi theatre of war on a massive scale, with demanding economy development (it takes a great deal of time in original SC to figure out best base building patterns, depending on what you want to achieve ... this virtually changes with every map you play and depending on match format). Now in sequel economy is dumbed down, mindless rushing with all you got to accumulate research points is encouraged, and matches last much shorter because there is really nothing to strive for past first 15 minutes in terms of base development or evolving battlefield strategy.

Most recent example is the (now infamous) Total War business, the community faced the short end of the stick with modding, because apparently releasing half-baked game every year with tons of DLC is more profitable rather than letting people produce high-quality conversions which bring back people to older titles 5+ years well after initial release.

But that is sad offtopic.

I just read the 1st page. Am I missing something? Isn't it easier to use the troop editor and put a bunch of Q gems in the Rane chest. All you have to do is pick them up. I guess people want to try out all the options with Q gems but it takes the excitement out of the game. If you are using them to get the items from the mines you can just add those items in the chest or even better, play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

Remonster6x said:

I just read the 1st page. Am I missing something? Isn't it easier to use the troop editor and put a bunch of Q gems in the Rane chest. All you have to do is pick them up. I guess people want to try out all the options with Q gems but it takes the excitement out of the game. If you are using them to get the items from the mines you can just add those items in the chest or even better, play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

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This post delivers.

Signed.

~Ãbyss

Editing of that sort might well cause bugs and crashes in PoP 3 - that was designed for PoP V 2.5 and we have not tested to see if it works in PoP 3.  People who try it do so at their own risk - we don't support problems in PoP 3 caused by either hacks or cheats.

Good for you, Remonster6x - you have the right attitude!

Remonster6x said:

I just read the 1st page. Am I missing something? Isn't it easier to use the troop editor and put a bunch of Q gems in the Rane chest.

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Yes, you are missing two things. First, if you place items in bonus chests, you have to start a new game to get them. Also this tweak allows you to get items with modifiers, unlike the troop editor.

Someone needing to justify him/herself in front of other people, about why is he/she cheating, seems to me completely irrelevant and uninteresting, but for the cheater's false peace of mind and condescendant own voice's reasons.

Enough said, some of the best game i ever played are ruined by cheats

do you get it? the Games were desogned to respond to such and such behaviour, challenging your skills or whatever.
If you change a part of it, is no longer the game as it was created, but a boring and reassuring (?) resemble of the same.
There's no challenge left, there's not an ounce of excitement, not a whisper of a thrill. This relationship has all the passion...
wait a sec , that's not my line 

instead of punishing people for cheating there should be an option in the beginning...like how it asks if you would like to be able to quit without saving or not when you create a new character there should be an option asking if you would like to be a nooby cheater or a real gamer. yes, i know i am a genius

If you are a "nooby cheater" PoP 3 is probably not a mod for you.  You already have the option to cheat or not - either do it and lose the achievement awards or don't do it and get them.

Besides the fact that you can give you whatever you want with the troop editor and this
tool is absolute moron-proof (even i use it since about one year to customize some mods, you can
create whole new troop trees with it).
Giving you 20 gems with that one is maybe easier for a "noob" char than changing files.
Not that i care that someone **** up his game files trying such things 

Excuse me for my ignorance... but how is the OP's cheat much different from using the item editor to add stuff (convenience aside)?

Also, game mods are themselves a result of players modifying a game to suit their playing style better, yes? So shouldn't modifying PoP files be encouraged instead? Imagine if Taleworlds penalised mod players by holding back certain features in response to us tinkering with their files.

Blackfish said:

So shouldn't modifying PoP files be encouraged instead?

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Hi Blackfish,

The quick but short answer.. No.

To explain it further so I don't sound rude, as that is not my intention.

The reason that there is no encouraging the modifying of files is because of all the unique coding done in PoP 3.  Usually someone will modify a file and then complain that their game is screwed up.  In the meantime we are trying to figure out why and on an unmodified copy.  This will lead to time wasted on chasing a bug that doesn't exist in the original mod.  This also leads to time taken away from us to explore/test/enhance an update or port.

All we ask, if someone decides to do this.  Please don't come in here complaining that their game is a total wreck, how uber leet they are with their mad skillz or complain that the game is boring because they made it easier.

I hope that helps to explain, at least in a small sense, why we don't encourage this. 

Stay Safe and enjoy the world of PoP 3.

The other problem with modifying files which have been extensively recoded is the same as modifying Native, as anyone who mods can tell you.  Every time you change something in the game, you run a high risk that a seemingly unrelated to the change bug will pop up elsewhere and have to be chased down and fixed.  That fix can cause yet another bug in another place in the game.  With the massive changes in code PoP makes, we had to run 11 betas on the Dev Forum, just to zap the most egregious bugs, and still did not get every one of them.  When people unfamiliar with the new codes start fooling about making modifications, massive problems arise.  Our two coders, MadVader and Saxondragon, had to communicate and swap files constantly just to keep their source codes the same, complicated by the fact that three others (Archangel, Abyss, Sysyphe) were adding in meshes and LOD's as well.  Missing even one updated source file would cause crashes and other bugs.

Aside from that, many bug reports we get stem from people fooling about modifying files with codes which don't work because they are designed for either Native or another mod and are incompatible with PoP 3's codes.  The Dev Team has more important work to do than chasing down bugs caused by improper file modifications.

The other part is purely aesthetic - if you had just spent months balancing troops and combat, would you like all your hard work to make the game truly exciting and challenging subverted by a cheat which makes it completely unworthwhile to fight any of the specialty enemies, as does the qualis cheat?

Aye, as a modder (though not of M&B), I suppose I can understand this. Though you could only entertain bug reports that make clear that they are running an unmodified M&B/PoP.

The aesthetic reason though... there are always going to be cheaters, anyway. Especially in a difficult mod like PoP. I myself do admit to occasionally using cheats like Ctrl-H in M&B mostly because I'm a support commander more than a fighter, and I don't like to mount a siege again just because I got knocked out in the city hall after my troops have overrun the rest of the city. Being lumped together with Qualis gem cheaters because of this preference is a sore point. 'Cheat' is fairly arbitrary in any case - Ctrl-cheating is penalized but itemeditor cheating, save-scumming and reducing player/ally damage isn't. Of course a player playing it through without cheats/exploits as intended is ideal. But given a choice between someone who cheats to get through a hard spot and see what the rest of the mod offers and someone who quits in exasperation after running out of vaseline, I would choose the former. Though that's me. 

@Blackfish - RE: Aesthetics - I was referring specifically to the qualis cheat and things like Hand of God, not cntrl+h.  In PoP 3, people are welcome to cheat all they want, in any way which enhances - to them - their gameplay.

We only do support bugs which are part of an unmodified PoP 3 and M&B 1.011, but the bug reporters don't always admit they've modified files and added mods - that's why we ask before we start bug-chasing anymore.

Here's a slightly more elegant Qualis tweak for the people who enjoy trying out cheats and tweaks. We're going to exploit one of the easter eggs in the mod.

If you have an attitude against cheats, tweaks, easter eggs etc. please stop reading now, otherwise read on.

This is your last warning, we'll be revealing one of the easter eggs in PoP 2.5.


The line of code doing this is in conversation.txt.


The tweak seems to work well, but I can't say that I've thoroughly tested it. So let me know if you think there's a problem with it.

Hydrax, please remove your posts from this thread and repost them under the stickied "Cheats" thread.

Neither of these cheats work the qual gem or the trainer.  I have imputed them both directly as you have written.  The first cheat gives me a brown tunic instead of a qualis gem and the second cheat doesn't even have the option at the trainer....

Lord Kinlar said:

Here's a slightly more elegant Qualis tweak for the people who enjoy trying out cheats and tweaks. We're going to exploit one of the easter eggs in the mod.

If you have an attitude against cheats, tweaks, easter eggs etc. please stop reading now, otherwise read on.

This is your last warning, we'll be revealing one of the easter eggs in PoP 2.5.

Spoiler

As most of you know, there's an easter egg in the game that involves salt, spice and training fields.

If you have salt in your inventory when you talk to a trainer, you'll see an additional button as "Tell me about Pendor.". If you have enough space in your party when you choose this dialog option you normally get the following troops.

5 x Noldor Maiden Ranger
5 x Noldor Twilight Knight
5 x Noldor Ranger
5 x Noldor Warrior
5 x Pendor Knight

Additionally, if you also have spice, you also get the following

+4 Honor
+200 renown
+100000 denars
+ 1 Qualis gem
+ 1 baggage train


This easter egg in the unmodified PoP 2.5 code works only once, as all 5 training grounds on the world map will disappear after you chose the dialog option. We're going to modify a line of code and simplify it and make it reusable.

The line of code doing this is in conversation.txt.

Spoiler

Below is the original line in conversation.txt and this is the line we're going to modify.

dlga_trainer_talk_combat:close_window 69631 768  1 150 1 288230376151711830 Tell_me_about_Pendor.  6  35 1630 3 1224979098644774912 648518346341351424 360287970189639866 1630 3 1224979098644774913 648518346341351424 360287970189639865 2105 2 1224979098644774912 1224979098644774913 1630 3 1224979098644774914 648518346341351424 360287970189639862 2105 2 1224979098644774912 1224979098644774914 1630 3 1224979098644774915 648518346341351424 360287970189639863 2105 2 1224979098644774912 1224979098644774915 1630 3 1224979098644774916 648518346341351424 360287970189639881 2105 2 1224979098644774912 1224979098644774916 1531 2 360287970189639680 288230376151711830 1531 2 360287970189639680 288230376151711830 1531 2 360287970189639680 288230376151711830 4 0 1073741974 1 288230376151712532 32 2 1224979098644774912 0 5 0 4 0 150 1 288230376151711829 1 3 936748722493063322 360287970189639680 200 1 2 936748722493063330 4 1530 3 360287970189639680 288230376151711826 0 1528 2 360287970189639680 100000 1530 3 360287970189639680 288230376151712532 0 3 0 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639865 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639866 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639862 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639863 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639881 5 1230 1 648518346341351597 1230 1 648518346341351598 1230 1 648518346341351599 1230 1 648518346341351600 1230 1 648518346341351601 3 0

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We're going to replace the original line with this line:

dlga_trainer_talk_combat:close_window 69631 768  1 150 1 288230376151711830 Tell_me_about_Pendor.  6  13 1531 2 360287970189639680 288230376151711830 150 1 288230376151711829 1 3 936748722493063322 360287970189639680 200 1 2 936748722493063330 4 1530 3 360287970189639680 288230376151711826 0 1528 2 360287970189639680 100000 1530 3 360287970189639680 288230376151712532 0 1531 2 360287970189639680 288230376151711829 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639865 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639866 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639862 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639863 5 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189639881 5

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Note that the red numbers above are the key values which you may change if you wish. Also note that the line above is just one long line, not multiple lines.

Now, save the file and start playing. You don't need to start a new game.

The tweak seems to work well, but I can't say that I've thoroughly tested it. So let me know if you think there's a problem with it.

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Because most of these tweaks apply to prior versions of Prophesy of Pendor.

The item called Qualis Gem has a certain number in the inventory list. This number, place, item ID isn´t the same anymore due to a different position in the itemkinds.txt. Same goes for the other piece of code. It´s all numbers and stuff but created by a masterfile which´s compiled and handed out as .txt´s. Since the masterfile is different as code was shifted, implemented, changed, the compiled outcome, the numbers and stuff aren´t the same anymore as well. It won´t work but magically create nice sideeffects.

So instead of the gem you´re getting the brown tunic.

It´s highly recommended not to meddle with the occult if you´re unaware of the potential hazardous dangers created by it. In your case it was only a brown tunic. In other cases, it´s a complete system meltdown and since most people aren´t cautious enough, a reinstall because they didn´t backup old files.

Just be a bit more careful in future - this forum contains threads, stuff and information from the 1.21 version till WBoP 3.2 so apply a bit more caution with threads outdating the version you actually play.

The part about revealing an Easter Egg for 2.5 printed in red could have been a clue, too.

is there a way to do this with the new version?