Become a healer yourself. Why should a great warleader also be skilled at healing? Aragorn was exceptional in that, so can the player. I will agree that the dark factions should get one, at least.
TLD ARCHIVE 1: Suggestions and Ideas (2.2.1)
- Thread starter Ancientwanker
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
- Status
Grocat
Sergeant Knight
Damien said:
Because the healer at Minas Tirith is really convenient to reach, right?
Low Wound Treatment heals party members faster than "the healer" does. The healer is more there for healing actual crippling injuries done to Heroes.
-Grocat the Anatiferous Tree Smuggler
Btw: I think that heroes, while never being truly necessary, are one of the most enjoyable parts of the game. The 21 NPC mod is my favorite right now, until The Last Days comes out. I'm just too lazy to do the self-conversion thing.
Damien
Sergeant at Arms
I don't disagree. But I think too many people would rather treat heroes as simply extra skill points on legs than as actual characters and companions who would have their own needs. It's just so cheesy. I'd rather the NPCs all have a sensible skillset that makes sense for the character, rather than something that just happens to fill in the gaps of what skills -my- character doesn't have.
Not hard to get to at all. I never have a problem getting there, at least. Wanna add a few more at places like Dol Amroth or the Corsair camp? Fine by me. I just don't think, as I state above, that NPCs should be relegated to skill monkeys for the player.
As is decently common, I agree with Damien, though adding a healer at Dol Amroth might not be a bad idea.Damien said:
The healers have (as far as I can tell) nothing to do with normal healing (which is fairly quick). They just give a chance of fixing crippling injuries quicker than they normally would. So, they really have nothing to do with whether one of the 'heros' should have a decent healing skill. It doesn't seem that unreasonable for the town leaders in particular, to have various skills, which would allow the player to choose which is best in his circumstance.
that's fair enough. but you're swinging from one extremity toward another. heroes as they are now are just killing machines otherwise absolutely useless out of battle. why do you think that all that heroes need is to be better warriors? can't they be eager healers, seasoned rangers (like mablung), veteran trainers as well as fighters? just look at their skills, does it look like skillset of a normal person? looks more like terminator.
Damien
Sergeant at Arms
Don't get me wrong - I do agree that they shouldn't simply be combat machines. But a hero in a world of death -is- primarily going to be a warrior, at least when lacking the ability to be an Elrond-ish scholar type. The choices are really war-machine, super-merchant, or healer. Of the three, war-machine makes the most sense for a hero of an age of war.
At least, a hero who is -riding around with you-. I'm not opposed to healers (as should be obvious from my posts before), I'm opposed to healing-intensive party-members. Why? Because healers are not warriors, they'd be staying where they're needed to tend the wounded and ill, not risking their own lives (and therefore the lives of many others who should be in their care) to gallavant around with a war party.
I'm rambling, I think. To put a finer point on it: Anyone with more skill at healing than fighting shouldn't be in the party, he/she should be a fixed character in a town, and those who are likely to join your war party should be those who would -actually- be likely to join a war party; namely, warriors.
It's definitely a good idea to toss in some non-combat skills like Trading or what-have-you, but not too much. The skills already don't cover a broad enough range of things to say "a real person would have more varied skills." Because a real person might not have any of the non-combat skills listed, but might have a ton of knowledge on cave complexes of the Far North, or what-have-you. Ya know?
At least, a hero who is -riding around with you-. I'm not opposed to healers (as should be obvious from my posts before), I'm opposed to healing-intensive party-members. Why? Because healers are not warriors, they'd be staying where they're needed to tend the wounded and ill, not risking their own lives (and therefore the lives of many others who should be in their care) to gallavant around with a war party.
I'm rambling, I think. To put a finer point on it: Anyone with more skill at healing than fighting shouldn't be in the party, he/she should be a fixed character in a town, and those who are likely to join your war party should be those who would -actually- be likely to join a war party; namely, warriors.
It's definitely a good idea to toss in some non-combat skills like Trading or what-have-you, but not too much. The skills already don't cover a broad enough range of things to say "a real person would have more varied skills." Because a real person might not have any of the non-combat skills listed, but might have a ton of knowledge on cave complexes of the Far North, or what-have-you. Ya know?
Oghier
Sergeant at Arms
Damien,
It's reasonable to think that healers have no place in a war party. However, you are free to leave them behind if you like. It's fairly clear that the game is designed to support such characters, though. The skills exist. If you think it's illogical that NPC's would possess them, yet still travel to fight, then I'd ask whether it's sensible that the player should do so. If no doctors ride to war, why support a design decision that encourages the player to do just that? A larger variety of NPC's gives the player a bit more freedom to develop the character he wishes to play. That's good.
I'd also note that many real-world armies have, and still transport medical help right to the battlefield. There are fictional examples, as well. "Croaker," from Glen Cook's "The Black Company" series presents one such. I cannot recall any examples from Tolkein's work, but my Middle-Earth-Fu is admittedly weak.
It's reasonable to think that healers have no place in a war party. However, you are free to leave them behind if you like. It's fairly clear that the game is designed to support such characters, though. The skills exist. If you think it's illogical that NPC's would possess them, yet still travel to fight, then I'd ask whether it's sensible that the player should do so. If no doctors ride to war, why support a design decision that encourages the player to do just that?
A larger variety of NPC's gives the player a bit more freedom to develop the character he wishes to play. That's good.I'd also note that many real-world armies have, and still transport medical help right to the battlefield. There are fictional examples, as well. "Croaker," from Glen Cook's "The Black Company" series presents one such. I cannot recall any examples from Tolkein's work, but my Middle-Earth-Fu is admittedly weak.
If elven heroes had some measure of healing skill, I wouldn't mind. As it stands, though, the only noncombat skill the other heroes really should have would be training.
dstemmer
Knight at Arms
Just a small suggestion: for balancing and realism purposes, some kinds of polearms, such as pikes, shouldn't be able to be couched. I can't imagine a weapon like the Dunnish Long Pike could handle the shock force of being used as a couching weapon without shattering. I know that the people in the 1066 were able to make their spears un-couchable by making them into 1h or 2h weapons. Would that be possible to implement in this mod? It's a small issue I know, since it only really affects heroes and the player character, but I'm neurotic and it just bothers me.
Damien
Sergeant at Arms
I'm talking about the books. You realize there's more than four books, right? Yeah. And who the hell is Mark Fisher? The only one I'm aware of is a member of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
I don't particularly care if he's Christopher Tolkien's alter ego. He's not John Ronald Reuel Tolkien - who happens to be the only man who could answer any Middle-earth question with facts rather than conjecture. Christopher may be privvy to a bit more information than us, but he is still not his father. Nor is a man who just happens to know Chrissy-boy.
Bull****. The only -facts- are those laid down by John Tolkien himself. And it's clear from his work that he never decided where Orcs came from at all. End of discussion, this cannot be disputed.
I'd like your source on that one.sencer said:
Grocat
Sergeant Knight
So, speaking of SUGGESTIONS, I'd like it if the people around the Lonely Mountain were somehow implemented, not as part of the map necessarily, but I did rather recall liking them as a whole. Wasn't there a race descended from Beorn, or something like that? It'd be pretty awesome to have some hero who was part bear. (He wouldn't have to look like a bear, just be mighty in combat).
Note: I haven't read the LOTR books in seven ages, so I am only talking about something that I vaguely recall existing. But I thought I'd suggest it.
Anyhow, how about discussing the origin or Orcs(Orks) and Uruk-Hai in the Tolkien Factoid House? Or just dropping it altogether, as it hardly seems important. Unless we're sugesting that there be an Historian in the Bandit Fort who you can ask about the History of Middle Earth. Maybe he'll give you quests to help him in his studies. (Since he's at an age where adventuring simply wouldn't complement his good health)
-Grocat the Portly Pope Pursuer
Note: I haven't read the LOTR books in seven ages, so I am only talking about something that I vaguely recall existing. But I thought I'd suggest it.
Anyhow, how about discussing the origin or Orcs(Orks) and Uruk-Hai in the Tolkien Factoid House? Or just dropping it altogether, as it hardly seems important. Unless we're sugesting that there be an Historian in the Bandit Fort who you can ask about the History of Middle Earth. Maybe he'll give you quests to help him in his studies. (Since he's at an age where adventuring simply wouldn't complement his good health)
-Grocat the Portly Pope Pursuer
speaking of bandit camp.. it doesn't look like it emerged from tolkien's books. maybe we should erase it altogether? wtf those bandits have to do with tolkien's middlearth? they're just sore in my eye.
would be better if a different starting point for each faction will be created.
would be better if a different starting point for each faction will be created.
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
Grocat said:
I think they played a role in one of the battles of the hobbit, but I can't say for sure. It would be cool to see a beoring hero, but I wouldn't see it as useful until we can alter physical build (I don't see them as bear-like at all, except that they'd be broad shouldered, tall as can be norsemen of a sort)
Speaking of that - were numenorean's taller than the 'modern' gondorian?
- Status
