Having a hard time getting kills while using a shield.

[apz2488]

Yeah.. the stuns have really been messing me up, I have to let the bardiche users swing twice before I swing once.. and then I have to hit with that swing. The problem with letting bardiche and long axe users swing so much is it really does a number on my shield.. even when I pick the thickest one. I seem to do way better using my sword/shield combo against swadians or khergits.. who use 2 handed swords.

Very interesting breakdown madocomadrin. I realized getting in close was to my advantage, I figured it was just harder for them to swing that thing around when they were cramped.. but this adds a lot of insight, thanks.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Yeah.. the stuns have really been messing me up, I have to let the bardiche users swing twice before I swing once.. and then I have to hit with that swing. The problem with letting bardiche and long axe users swing so much is it really does a number on my shield.. even when I pick the thickest one. I seem to do way better using my sword/shield combo against swadians or khergits.. who use 2 handed swords.

Although the 2 hit's in a row is a guaranteed solution, like you said, it can do a number on your shield. Like Mad Dawg said, you can also tell by the animation if you've been stunned: your shield will be pushed back further than normal, and blocks will be depressed further than normal. So if you don't see this on the first hit, you'll be safe for your own attack.

Also, the two-in-a-row thing only works for one opponent in a short period of time. Just last night I was stunned twice in a row by two swings, one from each of two enemies.

 

[apz2488]

Yeah i've basically given up using the shield in any situation with more than 1 axe/bardiche being swung around me..I just get stunned too much, have my shield break.. and generally don't find it viable to run in with a shield while everybody's swinging those weapons.

I guess I'll continue using sword/shield against swadians/khergits.. but it seems a nord archer just taking random swings with his 2 hander will still kill me half the time, so against nords I think its time to pull out the bardiche.

Kind of boring when you see every player who's using a melee troop use 2 handers, but oh well.

 

[MadocComadrin]

You could also try bringing throwing weapons with you. Often just pulling them out can make some 2handers switch weapons.

 

[apz2488]

I could imagine javelins working well against nord archers.. they see you closing in.. pull out their big 2 handed axe, and I just switch to javelins and get a quick cheap shot in... maybe even kill the guy.

I say javelins because I play vaegirs most, and find myself playing against nords most often.. because it seems everyone wants to play nords.

 

[eliasW]

i usually beat the **** out of those 2 handers.... but when my shield breaks, I'm kinda ****ed

 

[FDEL]

A note on the "2-in-a-row-thing":

A lot of players will give the advice of blocking 2 in a row to prevent from getting stunned. This is not entirely accurate but somewhat reliable in practice. The reason is that there is no game mechanics that says you cannot be stunned twice (as far as I know). However, the way stun works makes it so that in practice, usually you can only force a stun once unless your opponent is especially slow and defensive.

You can force a stun by first swing your weapon, then hold it for a second, then release your swing. This is assuming you have a heavy weapon.

In practice, as two opponents approach each other, usually the very first blow comes from a heavy weapon due to them often being longer (the shorter weapon forced to block). This blow will usually create a stun because the user has plenty of time to "charge up" the weapon (hold in chambered position) as he advance towards his opponent. The opponent will block this blow and get stunned. To take advantage of the stun, the heavy weapon user needs to execute a second blow as fast as possible. Thus, the second blow from the heavy weapon will not be charged/held. Instead, it will only be a swing-release fast attack. This second fast attack will not cause stun, so after you have blocked this second attack, you will be free to retaliate.

Since the most basic use of weapon stun against your opponent is simply to stun your opponent, then follow up with a fast attack (where your opponent will not block, having not noticed the stun), most players will tell you to block twice, then attack.

However, in a fight there can be many possibilities and many situations. A player might, for instance, stun you, and then follow up with a held attack to stun you twice, and finally use a fast attack. Or, a player might, for instance, simply walk up to you without swinging the weapon and then start the fight with a quick fast attack. In the first case, you need to block 3 times before retaliating. In the second case, you only need to block once. To be safe in all situations, it is important to be able to judge when an attack will cause stun so you can react appropriately.

This is my understanding since I first learned about weapon stun, and in-game observations seem to agree. If any of this is wrong, someone please correct me.

 

[Minutus]

You can force a stun by first chambering your weapon, then hold it for a second, then release your swing. This is assuming you have a heavy weapon.

Other than that typo (afaik) you're right about stunning. There is no mechanic to prevent you getting stunned twice or three or four times in a row, stun for each hit is calculated separately. Stun is actually very simple mechanic. The reason it's hard to grasp at first is because there is no animation or sound to tell you whether you got stunned or not. (there should be, definitely, i would be very happy if tw would add at least a sound for this)

Though you don't need a "heavy weapon" for stunning, just a heavier weapon than your opponent has (it's possible to stun short sword with an armingsword, though only with a charged overhead). For sideswing stuns you need bigger weight difference. Also, blunt weapons have a stun buff in the game, and even lighter but blunt weapon can stun heavier weapon to certain limit (for example charged overhead spear hit stuns greatsword). There was also speak about "bonus against shield" weapons stunning shield blocks at some point. I haven't tested this enough to tell.

 

[narref]

my problem seems to be every player with a 2 hander swings faster than me, maybe its just my reaction time.

I've been wanting to elaborate on this for a while. In some respects, 2-handers do swing faster than 1-handers in some respects, but not in the one's that count. The speed stat that's shown determines essentially the angular velocity (ω) of the weapon (along with some other factors).  Angular velocity is what counts.

Where people are led to believe the weapons swing faster is with tangential velocity. Tangential velocity is the velocity of a point a certain radius away from the center of rotation perpendicular to the rotation itself. In Mount&Blade, you can think of it as how fast the tip of the weapon is moving from the start of the swing to the end of the swing. Tangential velocity (Vt) is found by multiplying the angular velocity by the radius (weapon length). What that means is that for any two radii with the same angular velocity, the point with the longer radius has to move through more space in the same amount of time. Due to this, people get the impression that a longer weapon is being swung faster, but it's not...

For example, the scimitar, which has a speed of 100 and a length of 97 has Vt = 9700, while the Great long bardiche, which has a sped of 88 and a length of 155 has Vt=13640.  That's a difference of about 4000 units.

HOWEVER: That's the tangential velocity at each weapon's own length. If the person with the scimitar was in striking distance, the bardiche's effective length is reduced to the length of the scimitar, 97. That means it's effective Vt=8536, slower than the scimitar's Vt.

What does this mean?
It means that once you get in range, most (if not all) 1 handers will be faster in both tangential and angular velocity, and that 2handers "swinging faster" is right in a sense (mostly the optical one), but pretty much irrelevant to gameplay.

You forgot that shields slow 1h weapons a lot, so when it's a two-handed sword against a 1h-sword+shield, the 2h will have more angular velocity.

 

[MadocComadrin]

The reason it's hard to grasp at first is because there is no animation...

There is, actually: your block is depressed more than usual.

You forgot that shields slow 1h weapons a lot, so when it's a two-handed sword against a 1h-sword+shield, the 2h will have more angular velocity.

Shields don't slow 1-handers down at all. Your blocking speed may depend on the shield speed, but your weapon's attack speed is still purely the unmodified weapon's speed. Using a 2h/1h weapon with a shield will slow it down a little bit, however.