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I like where it's heading but it's a bit of 6 steps forward, 1 step back. I really, really miss being able to assign units by type to various groups. I definitely support letting us select troop types instead of just Infantry, Ranged, Cavalry, Horse Archer, Infantry/Ranged & Cavalry/Horse Archer.

I'd prefer to have the formations be just I ~ X / 1 ~ 10. No need to make them Infantry or Archers. Let me decide the troop mix.

e.g. put Formations back in the Party Screen but let us assign each troop type by %, i.e. 50% of Sharpshooters to Formation 2, 30% to formation 3 and 20% to formation 4. That way, you still get the benefit of the troop % working to keep unit numbers under the Battle Size / reinforcement waves / etc.

Currently, every time I promote/recruit troops or suffer troop losses (changing what troop numbers I have), I have to finetune OOB.

e.g. I have Aserai Recruits (Infantry). Four promotions later, they are now Mameluke Heavy Cavalry (horse archers / Heavy Armor). Previously they were Infantry / Shield / Polearm, then Cavalry and finally Horse Archers then Horse Archers / Heavy Armor.

Having OOB assign troops base on a % is a good thing. Keeps things simple as far as Battle Size / reinforcement waves / etc. but it may frustrate players who have to redo OOB after each troop promotion.

Also... would be nice if the formation assignments are synched across all events, i.e. battles, bandit hideouts. - minor issue ^_^.

... now I really want to find Fawzia's female VO replacement pack...

Another twist you can do is to change the stats of your companions.

I usually pick the same bunch of saps to be my permanent torture dummies. So for the past few months or so, I changed the starting level, stats and gear for them all, to about level 1 (I just copied Leslie, than zeroed out anything but power strike/draw/riding/horse archery). I also changed their gear to something like leather armor and a dagger.

I should change that elfie's name to Nonlethaldrin.

Dr.Q said:

I tried to use your code for Pop 3.6 but when I click on import/export npc it opens the cheat menu....

Click to expand...

You kinda need to dig around a bit, just try the various options/back out/etc and you'll find it. 'Import/Export'

Tuco said:

Note that for me in PoP 3.6 the starting id was 59 instead of 154. For posterity the way I found it out was to see what character was present in the menu and then use Morgh's editor to find its ID. (ex: when I used 154 I got Lord Hraven the Bold, whose id was 494. Adonja, the first companion, has an ID of 399, which is 95 less than 494. I subtracted 95 from 154 to get 59 and it worked.)

Click to expand...

Yep, mine was for 3.51, thanks for doing the legwork for 3.6, I never got around to it since I had to start a new game and I just zeroed out the character stats with Morgh's ^-^ That's how I did all the 3.x, using Morgh to look for 'NPC' and deducing the ID# that way.

bigtoebubby said:

In a comparison with what's different in menus.txt for 1.112 and the one for your character export, I've found what has txt has been added. Do you really need to edit quick_strings.txt and scripts.txt for this? or are those two files changed for the banner repicker?

edit: sweet!!! ive found a temp way for it to work in 1.112 as well. it's all in menus.txt but i moved things around. will post in a sec

WARNING: This text change is not ready-playable as you won't be able to enter towns. You can use it temporarily to export/import your companions as necessary but be sure to restore your menus.txt file to ithe original once you're done.

Change these values for menus.txt
First Add 2 to the number at the top of this file. So if it's 217, change it to 219

Search for menu_camp_action
Add 1 to the last number in this short line. So if it is 6, change it to 7

Search for mno_action_rename_kingdom
Paste this right before it. Be mindful of spacing so that it's even like the other strings in the same line

mno_action_export_import  0  Export/import_NPCs.  1 2060 1 864691128455135260  . 

Click to expand...

It should look something like this:

menu_camp_action 0 Choose_an_action: none 0 7
mno_camp_recruit_prisoners  10 105 1 1 2270 1 1224979098644774912 2106 2 1224979098644774912 24 32 2 1224979098644774912 144115188075856187 4 0 32 2 144115188075856187 0 2133 2 144115188075856185 0 2133 2 144115188075856186 0 2133 2 144115188075856187 0 3 0  Recruit_some_of_your_prisoners_to_your_party.  1 2060 1 864691128455135262  .  mno_action_read_book  0  Select_a_book_to_read.  1 2060 1 864691128455135264  .  mno_action_export_import  0  Export/import_NPCs.  1 2060 1 864691128455135260  .  mno_action_rename_kingdom  1 31 2 144115188075856576 1  Rename_your_kingdom.  1 900 1 1513209474796486683  .  mno_action_modify_banner  1 31 2 144115188075856163 1  {!}Cheat:_Modify_your_banner.  1 900 1 1513209474796486684  .  mno_action_retire  0  Retire_from_adventuring.  1 2060 1 864691128455135266  .  mno_camp_action_4  0  Back_to_camp_menu.  1 2060 1 864691128455135255  .

Click to expand...

Blue is the first change we did
Green is what you need to add
Red: Replace this with "0" to unlock modifying banner (already scripted in the game via cheat menu, but now freely accessible)
Orange: Delete this if you so desire


Finally paste this code above the line for menu_camp_recruit_prisoners

Code:

menu_export_import_npcs 256 Please_choose_an_NPC,_then_press_key_C_to_view_and_export/import_this_character.^^You_choose_{reg0?{s0}:none}. none 2 2133 2 72057594037927936 144115188075856169 2322 2 0 144115188075856169 10
 mno_export_import_back  0  Go_back  3 2133 2 144115188075856169 360287970189639680 47 1 144115188075856169 2060 1 864691128455135259  .  mno_export_import_npc1  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 0 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 0 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc2  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 1 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 1 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc3  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 2 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 2 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc4  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 3 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 3 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc5  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 4 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 4 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc6  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 5 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 5 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc7  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 6 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 6 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc8  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 7 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 7 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_next  0  Next_page  1 2060 1 864691128455135261  . 
menu_export_import_npcs_2 256 Please_choose_an_NPC,_then_press_key_C_to_view_and_export/import_this_character.^^You_choose_{reg0?{s0}:none}. none 2 2133 2 72057594037927936 144115188075856169 2322 2 0 144115188075856169 9
 mno_export_import_prev  0  Previous_page  1 2060 1 864691128455135260  .  mno_export_import_npc9  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 8 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 8 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc10  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 9 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 9 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc11  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 10 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 10 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc12  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 11 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 11 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc13  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 12 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 12 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc14  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 13 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 13 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc15  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 14 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 14 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .  mno_export_import_npc16  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 15 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 15 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .

Click to expand...

If someone is doing this for POP 3.51, add 154 to the npc troop ID number in the last section of code from bigtoebubby's above post.

You have to make the changes in 3 spots.

i) npcX (X = 1 to 16, you can increase the range to fit. POP has 20 npcs, so you might want to add npc17, npc18, npc19 and npc20)
ii) the troopID just in front of '2322' and '2133'

original Warband
mno_export_import_npc1  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 0 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 0 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .

POP 3.51 version
mno_export_import_npc1  2 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 154 2322 2 0 1224979098644774912  {s0}  3 2120 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639874 154 2133 2 144115188075856169 1224979098644774912 47 1 144115188075856169  .

npc2 => 155, npc3 => 156 and so on.

I found this useful so I could drop back all my companion level/stats back to 1 ^-^

PS If you're using plain Windows notepad, don't forget to turn off word-wrap before editing

In general, you gain more than you lose when you do this. Making bandits your friends (and also having the Red Brotherhood in your cities) can help as a form of additional militia.

I've done this with all the minor factions like the Jatu and various bandits/etc... As your tyran... empire expands, it's nice knowing that all your inden... civilian caravans can travel unmolested booting prosperity and revenue.

But it takes time, effort and removes one source of easy exp/training for your troops. I find it best to only intervene during times of war, e.g. I'd aid the Snakes when they are fighting the Empire. I don't want to aid the Snakes when they are fighting some mercs or darshivans... since I want to make 'nice' with those too.

Fire at Will = Attack with Ranged Weapons/Ranged Weapons Only. You don't shoot swords after all, at least not more than once.

Well if you want to go further, you can assign that particular troop type the same AI as Horse Archer but something like Morgh's Editor won't just handle that by editing troops.txt You'd need to dig into the module system I believe. I did that just once before wFaS was patched so Companions ordered to use ranged weapons don't use pistols as clubs. POP never had this problem AFAIK, at least not on a large scale.

If I tell Heroine Adventurers to charge, some will shoot on the move while others will close in with swords. Jatu mercs tend to do the same but I think that's because some will get bows and others, lances. It's only when I edit their gear to 'all ranged only' can I guarantee an 'all ranged only' attack. In POP 3.42, I give my companions a 2H sword, shield & bow and they will do ranged attack when told to 'Fire at Will' but when told to 'Charge', they do a mix of shoot/move and/or close/melee (all companions equally geared and edited so their stats/levels are the same). If I give them a Lance/2H Sword/Bow... they usually pull out their lance or sword when told to 'Fire at Will'. Haven't figured out why but it seems to have something do with the order in which their weaponry is arranged. Then again, having them use the Lance means they die pretty fast anyway.

So I give them the usual Noldor bows & 3 bags of Noldor arrows and mount them on spirit horses. Then it works great ^-^.

How else do you get Companions to start shooting? I've had half of them (Lethaldrin? You too?) draw swords in preparation to melee while in a line awaiting the enemy. Ranged Weapons Only does the trick (in wFaS... my Companions having being told to use Ranged Weapons only... proceed to wield their pistols... as clubs.)

You've never noticed that sometimes, troops like Heroine Adventurers won't shoot? Normally if they are in a line and the enemy is within crossbow range, they would but sometimes, a few just won't.

Quadruple the map size, cut the number of trees by a quarter and it becomes one big, very fun  'dogfight'? Until you run out of arrows.

You don't want FF to be turned on. You might be careful with your ordnance, but the AI is decidedly not. Even in vanilla Warband, you get hit a lot by your own side.

jelf said:

Most important factor is their personalities.
Good-natured and upstanding lords have a very low defection rate even if they hate you. In fact, upstanding lords will never renounce oath from their original liege(their liege when the game starts) in Native.
In PoP I'm not sure but still their defection rates are much lower. Also they are more likely to join a campaign and have lower relation lost when you assign fief to someone else.

IMO only recruit good natured, upstanding and martial lords(you probably want a martial lord as the marshal), ignore lords of all other personalities. You'll have a much more stable empire this way.

Click to expand...

That's just the thing. The lords you want... will never defect TO you. I have to actually destroy their faction in order to get a chance at them ^-^. Usually more than once.

That's what I mean about 'expensive'. Make the ammo capacity low. Or even inversely dependent on the number of reinforcement waves.

As far as players who can afford it, either they took the time/tactics to get the cash or they edited. Either way, they can afford it.

----

Or change the weapon paradigm. No more hand-held, man-portable, rocket-blasting, super-magnum cannon cocker's delight for troops and players. You want the big boom? You need to get the BIG cannon. Want something you can carry? Sure... shoots tiny slivers of lead, 30 round ammo bag. A camel-rider can take 3 shots (his camel will take more!). Make players invest in artillery instead of masses of RPG-toting infantry.

Of course, castles could get cannons too. You don't just have to worry about if the fief needs a ladder assault of a siege tower... now you have to worry about the number of cannon you might face. And gatling guns!

kevindrosario said:

Are the guys with 1 denar upkeep (recruits and militia) the most cost effective garrison? Because you can get like 100 of them for a single high level guy.

Also, I'd like to know in terms of both auto-calc battles, and battles that you actually take part in.

Edit: I should probably also mention that I tweaked my files to give unlimited reinforcements for both sides during sieges. That's probably important to know.

Click to expand...

No. If you plan to participate in the battle. Even if a more expensive trooper is less cost-effective in terms of stats (twice as much durability and DPS but costs eight times more) since you do not normally have all troops spawning in the first wave, that means that more durable troops (replacements don't need to deploy from their spawning point as often) and troops that are more effective (i.e. the opponents have to deploy from their spawning points, i.e. defeated in detail by dribbling in to the fight) are more effective that simple stats would show. Now add in the fact that missile troops typically cost more but are more valuable in a siege. You CAN make this work if you play around with battle size, giving much more importance to numerical advantage. Plus this also gives your role (and aren't you the baddest thing on the castle wall?) a bigger emphasis. Especially if you have a good bow ^-^. i.e. they are just there so their numbers will mean less of the enemy can come at you in any particular wave (you did say unlimited reinforcement waves, so this can work).

Somewhat. If you let the battle auto-resolve. You will take heavy losses and because you depend on significant numbers of troops, you will need to expend more recruitment efforts. Think of how much effort it takes to put in a 2000 man garrison. That's a lot of hands to press and babies to kiss as you keep visiting villages to replace losses. You do know those peasants never wash after going to the toilet? And adults don't take baths, let alone babies.

Yes. If you never get attacked, i.e. NOT letting General Otto von Kalc fight it out for you. It is most effective if you have so large a garrison that the enemy never even attacks you (in my experience... around 800-2000 or about twice what would work in vanilla Warband). I also do a RIF exercise when I'm in town (i.e. disband any troops that got auto-trained).

Just like in real-life, the cheap solution works... if it is never actually used. Look at how successful, all the 3rd rate militaries and regime protection forces are in the modern world. Then look what happened when they had to be used in a serious way.

PS Are you 'married'? If you're doing this for cost reasons... get your husband to pay your troops' wages.

.. and to address concerns like nilloc93's, make it 'expensive'. Not just to buy, but to use as in you'll need a lot of shot/powder. Would adding a fuel requirement be desirable?

... would a gatling gun / arrow caster be too much? Chu-ko-nu writ large.

However... isn't that Blood & Steel though? And aren't we the type to ignore the 'clothing' to look at the 'body' of the thing?

Besides, you have seen the early 'female' armor that Xeno had put in (and it was even more fun when you made your male companions wear them)?

While I'm not suggesting we change the sound-track to Yakkity-Sax and texture the models appropriately, we might keep an open mind and just see how it goes.

Also there's steampunk and there's 'steampunk'. One is almost Victorian era in look, another would be using more wood than iron. I think the latter would fit in better.

Mechs? Why not?

Say, use the horse model (think Star War's AT-AT)... hmmm or a fire-breathing horse... or a dragon?

One of my pet fantasies has been to fly a western style dragon in a mod like PoP. But I'd settle for a Korean style flightless one ^-^.

You can let it 'bomb' too... with whatever organic projectile a big lizard might produce.

-----

... and back to the cannon troop idea/trope. How about a really big and fat Orc/Goblin... with a muzzle of a big cannon projecting out of his belly. Or make him a cyclops (to explain the lack of accuracy with a weapon that's literally a part of his body). That way, the model is still a bipedal one, somewhat humanoid so that will make it easier for you?

Once you roll down this slippery slope, I'll ask you to put in sabre-tooth kitties as melee troops. And fire-breathing dragons. Got to have those. Forget the wings, just 4-legged ones standing up for some reason.

Some interesting Google results for a more Steampunk/non-organic look?

Time for the Battletech Mod. You know? That actually isn't such a bad idea.

If I understand the context, 'cost-effective' here not only refers to the financial burden of the troops but the amount of management effort required to obtain them?


Cost-effective. I can take even high casualties without breaking the bank.
Missile Troops:
Pendor Bowmen. 'Cheap and nasty' but fragile.

Cavalry:
Maiden Adventurers. Durable and effective. Recruiting is rather easy too, every farm girl seems to be hearing voices lately.

Infantry:
Empire Crossbowmen. If it can be done on foot, these guys do it reasonably well. They even work out rather well as both missile troops and shield wall infantry.


For a more 'elite' battlegroup though... why I'd just keep upgrading the above. There are better troops out there, even cheaper ones but they usually require some effort to recruit. If time and money can be spared though, I'd use something like order troops and high-end mercenaries. Although I do have to keep the casualty rate low.

Elite
Missile Troops:
Silvermist Rangers. Faux-Noldor.

Cavalry:
Heroine Adventurers AND Jatu troops (i.e. Warlords, Mercenaries). I do like having two 'wings' of cavalry. I call one group 'Beauty' and the other one, 'Beast'.

Infantry:
Knights of the Ebony Gauntlet.

PS The MOST cost-effective troops of all... recruits. 1 denar/week means I can stick 2000 recruits in a garrison. That's usually enough to scare off most campaign armies and for less than what 100 knights would cost me.

Try arranging yourselves defensively and letting the bandits comes to you. Preferably, pick a spot where they have to move within melee range to come get you.

It can help if you can manage to headshot a dozen or so of them. If like me, you're doing this at level 40+... then it's like the Arena Tourney save with fully-geared opponents.

If you're a masochist... change your level to 100 and see.

-----

Ok.. you can 'cheat' by using reduced damage/etc... kill the #1 bandit and then 'leave'... use high level companions to accompany you... other alternatives. Me? Two bags of arrows, 2H sword & a Ruby Bow with a shield-wall in front. If they don't come to me, they lose at least a dozen troops, if they do... fun! I normally equip my companions with Shield/Sword/Bow so I can scrounge arrows from them if they fall too.

Perhaps they should mod this so you get an excellent Renown reward too. It's almost like winning a tournament after all ^-^.

Next... having this fight in an abandoned small castle. Robin Hood never had it so good.

Reinstall the mod/etc... then wait a bit for the troops to fill back up to the party size cap.

... besides this is not your grandma's Warband. Actually getting 'Mission Accomplished' can take a while. I've leveled Crossbow to nearly 200... solely from participating in tourneys. Even throwing the odd javelin or two in the D'Shar towns have gotten Throwing to well over 100.

So really, do whatever you want and ignore whatever skill level you have in whatever weapon proficiency. If you use it, it will go up. I haven't changed my archery style and tactics from when it was around 40+ to the current 540+... kinda nice to have the sight reticle be more 'stable' though.

I'd pick my weapons on what I want done with them, ergo consider things like reach, damage, type of damage, rate of fire...

And if you do find out you 'specialized' in the wrong thing? So what? At least it will be useful in the tourneys.

-----

Reach from a horse? Ever try this... use a short weapon but swerve your horse before the weapon reached the mid-arc point. Get the timing right and score a 100%-200% boost to damage with almost zero chance of retaliation. Use this with a lance...