Prophesy of Pendor Version 3.0 Status Update

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Re Valkyries; I haven't checked myself, but have they been beefed up a little? They seem to be a bit tougher. I always liked to have a few in my party because of their speed, versatility and overall toughness. They seem to be a bit stronger now, and a definite asset to your party when fighting Jatu, Snakes and such, as long as you're not attempting a forlorn hope. I think players that liked them before will be pleased with them, as Fawzia said, their armor and equipment is very nice.
 
M0rdred said:
Empire and D'Shar have recieved significant improvements to their troop tree's. Fierdsvain used to be my favorite faction but in the course of playing the beta's I think it might now be Empire. They are more than a match if used properly.

They are starting to be my favorites now also, especially in the early game as their recruits start with shields which allows them a higher chance of survival.

I use to go initially with a handful of Fierdsvain recruits, but am not so sure that is optimal now..

Still love the Ravenstern Bowmen... and those Kiergard Knights wiped me out more than once during a Seige.  Taking places is so much harder now even with the fewer troops..

And the Jatu.. yeah.. with those new lances.. we had some debate on this one..

Best,

Saxondragon
 
I personally wouldn't mind seeing the Jatu a bit stronger. They were never unbeatable for me, but they did provide a challenge unique from most other armies/forces/factions/groups of people trying to rip off my face.
 
Mariacello said:
I personally wouldn't mind seeing the Jatu a bit stronger. They were never unbeatable for me, but they did provide a challenge unique from most other armies/forces/factions/groups of people trying to rip off my face.

I agree here, at 1:1 they are pretty terrifying in the sense that they will circle you for an hour before you manage to bog them down or kill their horses.  I do like how they can ride through the edges of a line and pick off troops though, not something I remember seeing much success with prior  (though this may not have been changed).

The speed of factions retaking their castles is pretty frightening, I just got ran over by what must have been a merc company because there were droves of immortals coming over the ramparts, nigh unstoppable with my meager army.  Kudos.
 
Mariacello said:
I personally wouldn't mind seeing the Jatu a bit stronger. They were never unbeatable for me, but they did provide a challenge unique from most other armies/forces/factions/groups of people trying to rip off my face.

One thing I will add with the consideration to Warband Port.  I have found horses are a lot less durable in Warband.  The result, unless you beef them back up in the mod, you will be de-horsed by the Jatu fairly quickly.  Of course that pretty much = death in short order.

Another thing that I find an issue with Warband is the normal 'thrust' option of swords or other weapons.  It appears that it has a shorter range then a swing on horseback.  Per my field test results.  This is logically incorrect, and has to have something to do with the mechanic change in Warband but if it can be addressed at the mod level it may be helpful.  Lances are excluded from the statement as they only thrust for the most part. :wink:
 
cniht said:
Mariacello said:
I personally wouldn't mind seeing the Jatu a bit stronger. They were never unbeatable for me, but they did provide a challenge unique from most other armies/forces/factions/groups of people trying to rip off my face.

One thing I will add with the consideration to Warband Port.  I have found horses are a lot less durable in Warband.  The result, unless you beef them back up in the mod, you will be de-horsed by the Jatu fairly quickly.  Of course that pretty much = death in short order.

Another thing that I find an issue with Warband is the normal 'thrust' option of swords or other weapons.  It appears that it has a shorter range then a swing on horseback.  Per my field test results.  This is logically incorrect, and has to have something to do with the mechanic change in Warband but if it can be addressed at the mod level it may be helpful.  Lances are excluded from the statement as they only thrust for the most part. :wink:
When facing a horse based army like the D'Shar or Jatu, bringing some good crossbowmen can save your hide. Crossbows are very good at taking out horses, and a Jatu without a horse is like a gun without a trigger.
 
It will still shoot, but only when you don't intend it to; i.e. right after you stick it back in the wasteband of your pants after your robbery, causing you to remove your genitalia with a blurt of submachine gun fire and subsequently be citizen's-arrested by an old woman with a pearl-handled Desert Eagle.
 
When facing a horse based army like the D'Shar or Jatu, bringing some good crossbowmen can save your hide. Crossbows are very good at taking out horses, and a Jatu without a horse is like a gun without a trigger.

I personally prefer to ride directly at them and when they lower their shield to throw a javelin into their chest, about 50% of the time the force of the riding will one shot them, knights sometimes take as many as three.  Also lucky shots at moving targets are rather satisfying.
 
Terrible moments or Mariacello's life: Jumping his horse, having it grazed by a couched Jatu lance, and falling/being thrown clear right into another couched honor lance.
 
Mariacello said:
Terrible moments or Mariacello's life: Jumping his horse, having it grazed by a couched Jatu lance, and falling/being thrown clear right into another couched honor lance.

Aah man, I know that feeling. What's worse is when you manage to loot some amazing horse like a Champion Noldor Warhorse (Roughly as fast as a motorbike), only to have it lamed in your first battle XD
 
Mariacello said:
Terrible moments or Mariacello's life: Jumping his horse, having it grazed by a couched Jatu lance, and falling/being thrown clear right into another couched honor lance.
ROFL, I actually had such situation once, I got lance'd in mid-air after falling off horse...
 
Excellent, excellent news, concerning the Valkyries. Even though, from what I grasp, they won't ride unique horses, much like the Noldor or the Jatu. Oh well, let us not be greedy. PoP rocks, anyway.

By the way, there's sth I'd always like to ask:

From what I understand, the Empire is loosely based on Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire. The Sarleon is based on Medieval Western Europe. What is the reason for adding Crossbowmen to the Empire tree line and Archers to the Sarleon tree line? Shouldn't it be the other way around in terms of historical accuracy? (yes, for those who 'll rush to remind me this is a fantasy mod, I know it, thank you very much) Replacing crossbowmen with archers would toughen up and add a higher percentage of survivability to Empire armies, who have a rather weak cavalry already. Yes, their infantry units are mean, but, so far, in M&B AND PoP: Cavalry >>> Infantry. Was this intentionally made that way, since the Empire is, obviously, made after the Rodocks? Still, the Sarleon is made after the Swadians and you replaced crossbowmen with archers, improving them significantly. I honestly believe that adding Archers to the Empire and Crossbowmen to Sarleon, would result in a more balanced game.

 
Serazu said:
Excellent, excellent news, concerning the Valkyries. Even though, from what I grasp, they won't ride unique horses, much like the Noldor or the Jatu. Oh well, let us not be greedy. PoP rocks, anyway.

By the way, there's sth I'd always like to ask:

From what I understand, the Empire is loosely based on Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire. The Sarleon is based on Medieval Western Europe. What is the reason for adding Crossbowmen to the Empire tree line and Archers to the Sarleon tree line? Shouldn't it be the other way around in terms of historical accuracy?
I strongly disagree and point out the fact that Frenchmen and Englishmen were very fond of military usage of archers back in the 1200's,the timezone of PoP.Giving them crossbowmen?Very pointless imo.I also have never heard about ancient Roman/Greek/Early Byzantine archers but quite much about crossbowmen.It is obvious one of us are misled,here.

but, so far, in M&B AND PoP: Cavalry >>> Infantry. Was this intentionally made that way, since the Empire is, obviously, made after the Rhodoks?
There is no making stuff after native factions in PoP,please quit thinking that way.All the factions in PoP are based on real life historical cultures with a spice of mixture.Cavalry is better than infantry on open plains,yes,but on rough terrain and sieges,I'ld favor infantry.The illusion of cavalry>infantry comes because there are not many foot knights in pendor,and nearly every high quality troop boasts a horse. It's about troop stats,not horse. Unless we're talking about horse archers,aka Jatu.

Still, the Sarleon is made after the Swadians and you replaced crossbowmen with archers, improving them significantly. I honestly believe that adding Archers to the Empire and Crossbowmen to Sarleon, would result in a more balanced game.
Like I said,quit assuming Factions' histories to a case which at least attempts to favour your point of view.

Cheers,
~Ãbyss
 
The Empire is loosely based on the Roman Empire, and resembles Native's Rhodoks about as much as a horse resembles a fish.

The Sarleon longbowmen do resemble the English longbowmen.  Welsh longbowmen were also famed during medieval times.  No faction in PoP actually truly does other than initially derive from some historical culture, however, since we put together bits and bobs from many cultures that we thought suited the various Pendor cultures we were creating.  Sarleon truly does not mimic Swadia to any major degree, and the knights of all factions are vastly superior to Swadian knights.  Some of the Pendor knights are loosely based on the Templars or Hospitallers, others are our own inventions.

The Pendor gods are a good example - they range from derivations from ancient Greek and Roman gods, Norse, Inuit, Persian, Indian and other culture's gods - a real mishmash, culturally speaking.

Abyss is quite right - cavalry has the advantage on open ground, but amongst the new hilly forests in part of the Empire or those damned rocks in Ravenstern, infantry has a great advantage.  Native AI still runs in stupid circles in those hilly forested areas and gets stuck behind trees and rocks - that's the actual M&B AI, and we cannot do anything about that.  As a die-hard cavalry fan, I regret that very much.
 
Serazu said:
From what I understand, the Empire is loosely based on Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire.

The Sarleon is based on Medieval Western Europe. What is the reason for adding Crossbowmen to the Empire tree line and Archers to the Sarleon tree line? Shouldn't it be the other way around in terms of historical accuracy? (yes, for those who 'll rush to remind me this is a fantasy mod, I know it, thank you very much) Replacing crossbowmen with archers would toughen up and add a higher percentage of survivability to Empire armies, who have a rather weak cavalry already. Yes, their infantry units are mean, but, so far, in M&B AND PoP: Cavalry >>> Infantry. Was this intentionally made that way, since the Empire is, obviously, made after the Rodocks? Still, the Sarleon is made after the Swadians and you replaced crossbowmen with archers, improving them significantly. I honestly believe that adding Archers to the Empire and Crossbowmen to Sarleon, would result in a more balanced game.

Hello Serazu,

Thanks for the post and you have asked an interesting question that I would like to answer in detail, more to show the process of how the decisions were made than to justify the decisions themselves.

One of the more esoteric and pleasurable aspects of this mod was playing “what if” in terms of evolving cultures and clashes of civilizations.

You are correct in that the Empire is based roughly on the concepts of Rome.  However, it is not completely Rome, but a civilization that has emerged by having influence of other cultures from it’s homeland, integrated into third culture that was roughly, as you correctly pointed out, Western Medieval Europe, isolated from that original culture, and advanced several hundred years.  What would that look like?  The base assumption was that the original Empire was more advanced in their engineering/mathematical knowledge (like Rome), than the civilizations in Pendor.  Thus it becomes a short leap to make the assumption that they would have advanced the use of crossbows. 

Note that we have increased the effectiveness of Crossbows steadily in this mod through the various versions.  The current version has the effectiveness of bows reduced by slightly lowering their accuracy.  This of course has the effect (in terms of relational effectiveness), of making crossbows more desirable and effective.  My own thoughts on the use of crossbows is that they allowed the common soldier to be more effective in ranged missile attacks than with bows *with little training* .  Also in my mind, is that a skilled bowmen will be more dangerous/effective than the average semi-skilled crossbowmen.  I think that this simulation currently holds this to be true.


Sarleon is the rough concept, as Fawzia has pointed out of more Welsh/English Europe.  Sarleon, especially around Laria, is located on top of a very densely wooded area and we are making the assumption that this is where Yew trees are, thus the evolution of the Yew Longbow. 
We further make the distinction that in terms of general technology, Pendor (Sarleon, Ravenstern, The Fierdsvain and The D’Shar) is not as advanced technically as say Barclay, Mettenheim and some of the various political entities that once made up the “Old Empire”.

In our “What if” game, we had a culture that was roughly Western Europe, then splintered.  How would these different cultures evolve, what would they look like and what other cultures and influences would they be under.

The histories published elsewhere can clearly describe how the Fierdsvain evolved and why.  Ravenstern we made more under the concept of rugged individualism, much like the Scotts but with a penchant for archery.

Sarleon we merely evolved from that original concept of the Western European Culture, touching however lightly with a Fantasy Element (the Noldor), who use long composite bows to great advantage.  In our “What if” game, the Noldor use of these weapons influenced Sarleon to develop a bigger and better bow that could compete.  As they did not have the overall technology to create crossbows, arbalests or ballista, the next best thing was the Longbow.

The overall point is that these decisions were not arbitrary, but fairly well thought out.

I would like to thank our artists for stepping up to create arms, armors and helms that help dramatically support these concepts.  I feel that they did a great job.

Best regards,

Saxondragon
 
Newly posted in PoP 3 FAQ:

1) Link to PoP 3 Website
2) Map of Pendor with trade routes shown
3) Effective companion combinations and bubble

NEW: PoP 3 Bug Reports thread - PLEASE read the intro before you post something already answered in it and follow the suggested way of reporting a bug!
 
It seems like caravan raiding will draw more negative consequences (after reading companion likes/dislikes) in 3.0 with companions.  Raiding supply routes is an important part of waging war (raiding dirt-farming villagers for their single unit of dried cod is easier to be seen as deplorable) and that soldiers would actually be more open to raiding a rich merchant caravan than fighting in a pitched battle since they would walk away with more loot and probably have a better chance at surviving.  But, going back to economic war, if these caravans are free to make their rounds unmolested, it benefits the enemy.  Was this a point of contention at all for 3.0? 
 
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