New Power Draw implementation

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Róisín

Róisín

Weaponsmith
Grandmaster Knight
Weaponsmith Old Guard
As someone pointed out previously, the current application of Power Draw is quite flawed, since over-drawing a bow will damage it (just like credit cards :wink:); so, I've come up with a new implementation for the power-draw skill.

First, for every bow, bump up the power-draw rating by 1, up the damage of each, and allow any character to use it: even if they don't have the Power Draw rating for it.

Second, get rid of the "10% per level" damage boost for PD and instead give a 15% penalty for every level of PD below the bow's requirement the character has. (So a squire with no power-draw rating could pick up and fire a war bow, but he'd be at 25% power and would in fact get more damage out of a hunting bow which he can fire at 100%.)

Third, for every power-draw rating above and beyond the level of the bow, have it increase the draw speed and length of time you can hold the bow without tiring significantly.

Lastly, while mounted, add a 10% damage penalty for every point his Horse Archery level plus extra Power Draw levels (beyond the rating of the bow) are below the Power Draw rating of the bow. (So, while a character with Power Draw 2 and no Horse Archery skill wouldn't be able to pull his "Draw 2" bow on horse-back as well as he can on foot, a player with Power Draw 4 would have no problem with it; however, a player with Power Draw 2 and Horse Archery 2 would be able to draw it just as well and would not suffer the accuracy penalty that the PD4 player would, though he couldn't hold the bow fully drawn for nearly as long.)

In other words, a character with power-draw 5 should be able to pull back a hunting bow almost instantly and hold it fully drawn for a LONG time before his arm gets tired, but he will never be able to get more power out of the bow than the poundage warrants.
 
Excellent suggestion: it much more closely matches reality. My only complaint is that if you put in something like this, is going to cause the noobie questions about the skill to multiply like crazy. :smile:

And as far as power draw improving crossbow reload times, yes, to a degree. The part you can speed up is the actual drawing. If you were strong enough, you can draw a crossbow just by bracing it against your belt and pulling it (as is shown for firing the hunting and light crossbows from horseback) instead of bending down and using the stirrup. The part you can't speed up is inserting the bolt.
 
Another thread with a brilliant idea that needs to be implemented... hope this forum has nothing against thread necromancy....
 
Personally I think its a great idea, though the might need a renaming.

"Archery" sounds better than "Power Draw" anyway.  Power draw gives me a mental image of an extremely nerdy 12 year old drawing scetches very quickly, and calling it exercise.

Also I find the Power Strike/Power Throw to be silly/nonrealistic skills.

Power Strike simply should not exist. Power Throw should work exacty as the OP destribed Power Draw.  I mean STR should directly determine how hard to you can potentially hit, you weapon skill should determine how much of that potential is put to use.


Which is basically saying there are no stupid people in the world.  I'm just saying that logically is it is POSSIBLE its should be allowed, sure have it do no damage, but there is nothing in real life to stop you from doing so, even if you will be completely useless with it.

Basically I think a Min/Recommended Str req would work a lot better.  For example if a Polehammer (which is a 13 str req I think correct me if wrong please), would have say "8 Min Str - 13 Recommended" instead of a hard cap of 13 you could have something like the following in effect.


STR___Damage Penalty___Speed Penalty
9.................-40%...................-40% 
10...............-30%.................. -30%
11...............-20%...................-20%
12...............-10%...................-10%
13..................0%......................0%

Or for a Bastard Sword (9 req atm)

STR___Damage Penalty___Speed Penalty
6..................-30%..................-30%
7..................-20%..................-20%
8..................-10%..................-10%
9 ....................0%.....................0%

The general idea would be you could use a weapon as long as you had, (as i showed above) 2/3rds of the "Recommended" strength.

Now before anyone starts on a rant about "no extra str, level one priests running around with a BS/S", that by the time you applied both the one handed penalties, the lower str ones, its gonna be a rather useless weapon as a one handed weapon, seeing as it is going to have an effective speed rating of around (guessing here) 40-55 and would be doing around half damage. You would be FAR better off with a rusted arming sword.

You are most likely wondering how this would help the game, so I'm going to state a few reasons I think it would.

-It would help the mask the character micro management that RPG's require, but by no means limit play for those that like to power-game.

-It would allow one to make charaters to just have a bit of fun with, for example, a court lady who weilds a rather large axe, with all the effectiveness of a 8 year old child, but has a certain like of doing ride-bys and beheading (if only) river pirites.

-It would help show progress in your charactor becoming stronger, and support a reason for him/her doing so.  If you plan on making a character that is going to focus specifically on SoW's for example it would allow you to use that weapon earlier, and build up your proficiencies in it, without requiring you to buy a "train-weapon" if you would.

-Also I think that any extra options that a player can explore in a single player game within reasona nd bounds of the otiginal concept is a good thing.  Simply put, if you feel that using a weapon before the current hard str cap is aquired is wrong, no one is forcing you to do so.  Just think of it like the cheat mode codes, personally I play many both cheats, and uncheated chars, just depends on my mood.
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Well, I think the ammount you practise with that sword would be based quite a bit more of your prof with it, and not your strength.

Ok, what follows will be a reasonable conversion of the strength amounts.

Lets assume that every point of strength is 20 lbs a player would be able to lift, with the squire starting strength value thats still only 200 lbs.

Now lets assume your character wanted to weild a SoW with said 10 str.

Why would a person be able to use a sword if they can lift 220 lbs, and yet be conpletely incapable of doing so if they can only lift 200lbs?

I mean is it just me, or is that extra 20 lbs making a heck of a differance?

That numbers I picked for being able to lift were just number I chose to use as an example btw.  Though theygive a reasonable range of 80lbs to 500 lbs. Based on the 4 str of a nun, to the max of 25 str.

If those numbers sound horribly wrong, try 15 lbs a str point for a range of 60-375, though assuming a dead lift situation, I'd have a str score a bit off the charts according to that, lol.  Jhaerik Strength: 30, lol.
Click to expand...

Similar to an idea I had long ago, though the two would work well together....lol.


 
Change the horse archery so that it is worth twice what the extra power-draw levels are worth, and it's good. As the idea stands, H.A. becomes a worthless investment (unless you reach power draw 10).
 
Excellent ideas, and I support it 98.4% ...

The 1.6% is where you said 'up the damage for each' since I really think that the ammount of damage the arrows currently do is sufficient, and does not need increase whatsoever.. Maybe an increase in damage of armored units, but definately a decrease in damage for naked guys ::smile:
 
The idea there is too make up a bit for the huge reduction gained by dropping power draw's effect from the damage. I'm not sure I buy this drop myself, as there are different quality bows. For example, a longbow is a generic type, while someone taller, is able to use a taller bow. Likewise, a bow can be made to require stronger pull. Since armor is not fitted to the person in game, this may be an abstraction which serves more purpose than it's removal does. The complexity of replacing it's effect might be great indeed.
 
Well, I suggested upping the damage so that the bow still inflicts the damage it currently will.  When you draw a 26p War Bow, you HAVE to have P.D. 4, which means it's drawing at 38p, which seems about right.  On the other hand, you wouldn't get MORE damage out of it than that with additional P.D. levels, so I think that in itself will balance archery a lot.

calandale said:
Change the horse archery so that it is worth twice what the extra power-draw levels are worth, and it's good. As the idea stands, H.A. becomes a worthless investment (unless you reach power draw 10).
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But without H.A. you'll still suffer the extreme penalty against aim while mounted.  What it renders almost useless is P.D. points beyond the strength of the bow you're using.  That's only good for how long you can hold it drawn.
 
Agreed... Just that 38p still seems a bit too much considering you would have a +3 arrow, on units that have around 40-44hp ::\
Hit-boxes by body parts would solve this, but that would mean a lot of programming for Armagan, and perhaps more lag on the systems? ::sad:
What happened to all the grannys walking around with a dagger stuck in their back without knowing it? ::smile:
 
So, effectively you're saying that you'd not want to account for the difference in strength allowing for pulling more powerful bows of the same type? Additionally, the higher the power draw, the more ability to hold the bow comfortably. I don't know. I always feel resistant to changes, unless I am absolutely convinced that they are an improvement.
 
In my experience, most AI have about 50 HP, besides, a full-on War Bow shot on an unarmoured person SHOULD kill them in one hit.  But then you could solve that by having a small hitbox nested inside the body hitbox to represent the vital organs.  Any hit to the body triggers the first hitbox, and if the arrow also passes through to the "Vital" hitbox, it triggers as well- effectively dealing double damage.

But a War Bow should do more damage than a light crossbow.

calandale said:
So, effectively you're saying that you'd not want to account for the difference in strength allowing for pulling more powerful bows of the same type?
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If it's a heavier bow, it should be a different type.  A War Bow is simply a heavier Long Bow.  Besides, why do you have to buy a bow in the first place if you can make a newer, more powerful one every time you add a point to P.D.?  I could see adding a few more bows, or perhaps positive modifiers like "Heavy", but the current Power Draw system just isn't right.

calandale said:
Additionally, the higher the power draw, the more ability to hold the bow comfortably. I don't know. I always feel resistant to changes, unless I am absolutely convinced that they are an improvement.
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Absolutely.  If you have a draw with P.D. 2, and you have P.D. 5, you should be able to hold it fully drawn for quite a while before the reticle starts to widen.
 
Ok but if you hit them with the arrow through the stomach, how would they instantly die? They would gargle and writhe on the ground in eternal pain and agony, but for quite a while - not instantly.. Some may even still be able to run around in frenzy spitting blood and madly waving their sword around hitting everything on the way ::smile:

No doubt that people would die from an arrow through the guts, my point is just that it would happen instantly, and it would take quite a while in some cases - whether or not the arrow went through them..

And what about unarmored horses who take 40 damage from having an arrow stick in their rump / flank ?

Anyway, its no big issue to be honest, I just don't think it would be realistic / enjoyable / practical to be able to kill someone instantly with an arrow or two through somethin non-important like a shoulder / leg...
 
If you hit someone with an arrow in the gut, they may not die, but they probably aren't doing much of value. So, it's more of an animation issue, one which effects all weapons. If there was a more realistic damage system (unconsious/death from any weapon) this might not seem so strange.

The hit locations are fairly abstract (with the exception of the head box). Tweak Eogan's suggestion (and apply it to other weapons as  well) and it would work - say reduce damage by a lot and make the special locations do quadruple damage. Not sure it's worth the hassle though.

Eogan: Hmmm. Then armor should also come in specific sizes which might or might not fit the character. I think that there's a problem with someone using a very light bow, getting heavier damage than someone else using a heavier type, but I still think that variance in specific instances of a type of bow is best represented by the abstraction of (a weakend) power draw. Additionally, there is a balance between player skill and character stats in the current version. If it all becomes a matter of the player aiming better, I think that the game may become too difficult for someone (like me) who spazzes out on a good number of shots. The "holding a bow comfortably" argument was that you are more likely to get a good hit with the improved hold - not necessarily reflecting longer aim, but simply less attention to holding the bow itself.
 
Volkier said:
Anyway, its no big issue to be honest, I just don't think it would be realistic / enjoyable / practical to be able to kill someone instantly with an arrow or two through somethin non-important like a shoulder / leg...
Click to expand...
That was the point of my suggestion.  You could keep the bow damage where it is now, and if the vital organs got a x2 damage bonus just like the head did, then it would be more reasonable.  Then a leg could take a lot more hits than either a head or a torso could.  But then bows would all be weak enough that plate armour would be proof against them.

Meh, just make horses resistant to piercing and blunt damage.
 
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