Italy at War Equipment and 3D.

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Good news for you Rath0s.

No, I have not even started my work with the scenes yet, until I'm sure about the time frame

I decided that I'm gonna try to learn how to model (again) and in about two weeks (perhaps one?) I may start to model something, that is, if I don't lose the interest. But don't count on anything, except on a *potential* modeler to assist you.


edit- I made a crappy kettle helmet that I can show you tomorrow (tooooo late  here, 4 am, FFS)
 
So after looking at the illustrations posted by Marcus Brutus, I searched out some reference photos for us to use.  These are what I have in mind for the time period (second-half 14th century):
*MANY PICS HERE*

Here are some examples of harness from the mid-to-late 14th century. 

G_nther_of_Schwarzburg.jpg

Günther von Schwarzburg effigy; 1349

HerefordCathedralPeterdeGrandisson1.jpg

l Peter de Grandisson 1358

GermanyFrankfurtamMainStBartholomeu.jpg

Rudolf von Sachsenhausen 1370

pic_spot_basc09.jpg

An altar piece in Pistoia Cathedral, Italy, circa 1376

Now here's what I think we could have for troop-types:

INFANTRY(polearms?)/CROSSBOWMAN

In gambeson, or in mail hauberk, with some plate defense on arms etc.  I like the way it feels like it's pieced together based on what a soldier can afford. 
gambeson.jpg

3658101927_7514f1dfac.jpg



HEAVY INFANTRY/MEN AT ARMS:
2729419105_dca9d1bbe6.jpg
tranfull.jpg
transitional.jpg


Brigandine, and coat of plates.  I think this would be a very common type of harness closer to the mid-14th century.  You'd still see it toward the end of the century too, though.  This is what the effigy I posted is representing (more or less), and what the native 'mail and plate' is supposed to be.  I was thinking using less plate, and maybe some studded leather or splint for the cuisses/ vambraces, spaulders and upper arm plates optional, just to distinguish them more from knights.

KNIGHTS:
HounskullArmour002edit.jpg
Composite_Armor_1400sized.jpg


LORDS:

3790083575_b3f1b8043b.jpg
Transitional_Harness.jpg

There's a lot of cross-over between the heavy infantry, knights and lords.  The heavy infantry could be armed in coat-of-plates/brigandine with more mail and splint reinforcements, and open-faced style bascinets; the knights in full plate, with klapvisor/hounskull/nasal bascinets, and the lords would have full plate and heraldic tunic (or surcoat, or whatever that short coat is called; maybe with a tableau mesh, if I learn how to do that).

Let me know what you guys think, and maybe Rath0s can begin with drawing up some troop trees when we have consensus on this stuff.  I'm interested to hear what the Italians have to say about specific equipment and heraldry that might have been unique from the rest of Europe.

 
I just decided I can't texture for ****. So... yeah.


Finished my first weapon, a Stiletto that I inspired in a picture posted at the 3rd page of this thread. If you want it (it's utter ****e, but whatever) just warn me, Rath0s. Also, I can't texture. Uploading the pics soon.


181 polys, thus the ****ty quality, and it's my first model ever, so be kind....
1zqc02w.png
 
Ambalon said:
I just decided I can't texture for ****. So... yeah.


Finished my first weapon, a Stiletto that I inspired in a picture posted at the 3rd page of this thread. If you want it (it's utter ****e, but whatever) just warn me, Rath0s. Also, I can't texture. Uploading the pics soon.


181 polys, thus the ****ty quality, and it's my first model ever, so be kind....
1zqc02w.png

Awesome job on a first model.  Many people have posted their first models in the Forge- 'post your wings3d model' stc. thread, and for the most part, yours is far better made.  Good poly count, no useless geometry, good shape. 

What I would suggest to improve it:  flatten the handle, as a blade's handle is usually an oblong shape.  Also, you could put more detail into the area where the blade meets the hilt.  Rather than having the blade run straight into the cross-guard, have a part that attaches to the cross-guard, then tapers before becoming the blade.  You might scale the knobs on the ends of the cross-guard down some as well, just to be more like the pics, but never mind if you prefer them larger.

Keep it up!
 
Wasnt everything melted together, swords, knifes, daggers etc, just wondering, I know how it is done these days but how did they really attach all together.

Good first model, you should be proud, and good that you started with a weapon instead of a helmet, but remember, the more times you model the better it will be.

You dont want to see my first model and texture.  :wink:
 
Don't know if you need them, but I could share some different helmets, other then pigface and hounkskull...I've found several wich are not always based on historical documents, but I think they look good nonetheless. Some are early 15th century, so a little off the timeframe, but I believe they would fit, even few decades before
Just to add more variety...let me know if I shall link them  :smile:
 
Rath0s said:
Wasnt everything melted together, swords, knifes, daggers etc, just wondering, I know how it is done these days but how did they really attach all together.

Good first model, you should be proud, and good that you started with a weapon instead of a helmet, but remember, the more times you model the better it will be.

You dont want to see my first model and texture.  :wink:


OI! WAS THAT A SHOT AT ME?!??!?
 
Just a preview of some of the work in progress.  Long way to go on these yet.  The legs aren't even modeled yet (those are just place-holders), the bascinet still needs a texture (along with 4 or 5 others I have modeled), and the armour overall is still largely in the alpha-stage.  But I just thought I'd post something to keep the team inspired  :mrgreen:

Untitled-1-1.jpg


Italian (Venetian?) heavy infantry, circa 1380.  Wearing corrazina (a sort of rigid coat-of-plates, or a cuirass covered in fabric) , and full arm+leg harness.  Composite of:

Transitional_armour_c1400.jpg
and
16gk3n9.png


                                                                                                                                                                                  (the one on the right)

note: apparently, shoulder armour (i.e. spaulders) were very uncommon in Italy and Germany during the 14th century, judging by contemporary effigies and pictorial references.  They were very much developed in England, however, so it's not completely anachronistic for this armour to have them.  They did appear in Italy occasionally, I assume. They can be taken off this armour easily enough, though.
 
CinuzIta said:
very, very, very....VEEEEEEEEERY GOOD!! :grin:
:mrgreen:

Thanks CinuzIta

We'll see how it turns out, I guess.  There are a couple more very cool kits from this period I'm looking forward to making.  A decent brigandine, for one.  And maybe that Churburg #13 harness.
 
Great work!!!!

It seems a main Northern Italian Infantryman (you can use Kettle kelm too) :wink:

Just keep in mind the large use of spears and long falchions (called "Ronconi") as main weapons.
 
Angorod said:
Great work!!!!

It seems a main Northern Italian Infantryman (you can use Kettle kelm too) :wink:

Just keep in mind the large use of spears and long falchions (called "Ronconi") as main weapons.

There will be a variety of kettlehems, eventually.  And the poleaxe is just something I made before this project was begun, and isn't part of the costume.  I haven't even thought about any weapons yet.

That's stuff that should really have a thread of it's own- a troop trees discussion thread.  I've recieved a couple of pms from GodHandApostle about ideas for troop trees, which he has agreed to let me post.  I'll do that later on tonight, probably. 

And thanks for the feedback, it helps me choose directions for what to make. 
 
I think the same about a thread of it's own. When ready, if I can be useful, dont hesitate to contact me. I'll be happy to help  :wink:
 
Hi, guys. Looks like a promising mod. Has it been decided which timeframe it will focus on? The poll results suggest something around late 14th century.
I have quite a few pics for reference that I can share but knowing the period can ease the job.

BTW, for separate items I would suggest to stick to photos of real historical artefacts instead of their modern replicas because not all of them are very accurate.
 
Yigit said:
Hi, guys. Looks like a promising mod. Has it been decided which timeframe it will focus on? The poll results suggest something around late 14th century.
I have quite a few pics for reference that I can share but knowing the period can ease the job.

BTW, for separate items I would suggest to stick to photos of real historical artefacts instead of their modern replicas because not all of them are very accurate.

I've been going on the assumption that's it's set in the late 14th century.  Rath0s, correct me if that is not the case!

Please do post pics, they're always useful.

And I agree with you 100% that the original pieces are better to use as references- as long as you can find them.  For me, I like to have at least 2 angles of the item to model/texture it properly.  This is especially true with full harness, where I like to have pics of each element of the armour from different angles.  Saves me a lot of guesswork.  That's hard to find for historical pieces, as they're often posed in a museum somewhere.  So if I have to use a reproduction piece as reference, I'll try to at least use the most reputable modern armourers, because they often base their best stuff pretty closely on historical pieces too.  And to my mind it's better to make a good reproduction of a modern reproduction than have to guess at what an original piece looks like, and possibly be completely off.  But again, I agree that the original pieces are best.
 
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