A Manual Block Suggestion (New Option) - EDIT: Poll Added

[seanparkerfilms]

First off, I'm absolutely terrible at manual blocking. Any time I try to go up against an average manual-blocker, I might block the first couple hits (usually only when they "charge" up the first strike and give me a bit more time) but only manage to win if I get a lucky strike in before the blocking truly commences. However, I am totally in favor of manual block — it is a truer test of skill, it's more exciting, and in general it just makes a battle that much more epic. Besides, blocking with a sword should be significantly harder than a shield anyway. Autoblock fests lack that powerful tension, and make any weapon almost as good as a shield (in terms of standard infantry combat). So overall, I think it's a great, fun thing, BUT... I think it could be done in a better and perhaps (bear with me, manual block masters) slightly easier way.

Currently, blocking happens by moving the mouse slightly to face one of the four block directions (left, right, high, low) and right-clicking. I think this set-up is inherently slow for most (I'd go as far as saying nearly all) players. What if blocking was activated first by right-clicking and holding (to activate "block mode"), but then as you move the mouse around to the four block positions, your character would change block stances to match? It would be faster to pull off once in block mode, and I think a bit more intuitive as well, considering you'll click to raise you sword and then move it to its final position. My prediction for what this would change is this: big battles will feel similar — when you've got a several man melee, everyone will benefit from the enhanced blocking (though not nearly as powerful as the autoblock, of course), but in the chaos of having multiple opponents it'll still be a challenge to survive. A strike from two opponents at the same time and you'll be down. However, "duels" will have the potential to be a lot more intense. Less drawn-out than autoblock duels, for one, and it'll be more of a true test of skill and reflex, and a little bit less luck (I say that because honestly, a fast fight with manual blocking more or less requires luck).

For those who wouldn't ever want manual blocking (as it is now) to go, and would take it with them to the grave, hold on now. Maybe this setting could be added as a middle-point between autoblock and the standard manual block to ease players in from one style to the other. It's pretty obvious that the difficulty curve involved in migrating from auto-block to manual isn't a curve at all — it's a tremendous freaking leap between the two, and a setting like this would allow for the average player to have a good bit more skill in their duels without it being nearly as intimidating as the high-level option.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there anything bad about this suggestion? It wouldn't remove either existing options (although maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea for this to replace auto-block, just my opinion), and although blocking would be a fair bit easier to control than before, it's an improvement in every way to auto-blocking.

Thoughts, criticisms, suggestions? (flaming?)

-Sean

[Berserker Pride]

I love this suggestion it would also feel more natural as well as you wouldn't have to click click click to block different directions which feels funny.  It would feel much smoother moving your block around with the mouse.  I mean realistically you don't have to briefly drop your block to block from a different direction you just shift the direction you are blocking from.  I really hope the devs take a look at this!

[Darkness]

First off, I'm absolutely terrible at manual blocking. Any time I try to go up against an average manual-blocker, I might block the first couple hits (usually only when they "charge" up the first strike and give me a bit more time) but only manage to win if I get a lucky strike in before the blocking truly commences. However, I have totally in favor of manual block — it is a truer test of skill, it's more exciting, and in general it just makes a battle that much more epic. Besides, blocking with a sword should be significantly harder than a shield anyway. Autoblock fests lack that powerful tension, and make any weapon almost as good as a shield (in terms of standard infantry combat). So overall, I think it's a great, fun thing, BUT... I think it could be done in a better and perhaps (bear with me, manual block masters) slightly easier way.

Currently, blocking happens by moving the mouse slightly to face one of the four block directions (left, right, high, low) and right-clicking. I think this set-up is inherently slow for most (I'd go as far as saying nearly all) players. What if blocking was activated first by right-clicking and holding (to activate "block mode"), but then as you move the mouse around to the four block positions, your character would change block stances to match? It would be faster to pull off once in block mode, and I think a bit more intuitive as well, considering you'll click to raise you sword and then move it to its final position. My prediction for what this would change is this: big battles will feel similar — when you've got a several man melee, everyone will benefit from the enhanced blocking (though not nearly as powerful as the autoblock, of course), but in the chaos of having multiple opponents it'll still be a challenge to survive. A strike from two opponents at the same time and you'll be down. However, "duels" will have the potential to be a lot more intense. Less drawn-out than autoblock duels, for one, and it'll be more of a true test of skill and reflex, and a little bit less luck (I say that because honestly, a fast fight with manual blocking more or less requires luck).

For those who wouldn't ever want manual blocking as it is now to go, and would take it with the to the grave, hold on now. Maybe this setting could be added as a middle-point between autoblock and the standard manual block as it is now to ease players in from one to the other. It's pretty obvious that the difficulty curve involved in migrating from auto-block to manual isn't a curve at all — it's a tremendous freaking leap between the two, and a setting like this would allow for the average player to have a good bit more skill in their duels without it being nearly as intimidating as the high-level option.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there anything bad about this suggestion? It wouldn't remove either existing options (although maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea for this to replace auto-block, just my opinion), and although blocking would be a fair bit easier to control than before, it's an improvement in every way to auto-blocking.

Thoughts, criticisms, suggestions? (flaming?)

-Sean

I have mixed feelings about that IMO. If you think about how you would block with something besides a shield. You wouldnt constantly hold it up and then move to block. You move and block in one motion in one direction per attack. That is the reality. However, this being a game, doing that creates possible problems that don't exist in real life, such as: mouse sensitivity, mouse speed, ping, etc. All of which making blocking the realistic way harder.

As you say, I wouldn't want either removed, but a medium setting between the two would be very welcomed. I think im doing OK (and I use that lightly) at manual blocking. But the leap from auto was quite difficult indeed. And I think what you propose is a very good intermediate.

[Coldhart]

I like this, a lot.

[Renevent]

Well...I suck at manual blocking...but I agree it is the true test of skill.  I also think it will make shields that much more valuable.  Your suggestion is pretty good, and it sounds like a pretty reasonable change. 

+1

[daumor]

I love the intensity of manual blocking, but I support this, it would feel more intuitive. Also what he is suggesting isn't holding your sword in a block and then moving it but more of if you block left and a blow is coming in right you wouldn't move your sword to the ready position to deflect the next blow, but could smoothly move from one to the next. (YAY run-on sentence!)

[ares007]

(I say that because honestly, a fast fight with manual blocking more or less requires luck).

as do real fights in real life


That being said, I'm not against the suggestion being tried out. It might help players new to manual block bridge the gap easier. One thing to consider though is that the right clicking adds a timing element to the blocking which is very realistic. In autoblock, you still have to time your block. With the suggestion, a simple look to the left would block an incoming attack from there (assuming that you still are holding right click after the first attack). The way it is now, you actually have to initiate each and every block and that is more realistic and in my opinion fun.

What I honestly think would help the melee even more would be adding some sort of grappling device like a takedown. It could work on and with all weapons without shields. It would allow players who aren't as good at manual blocking to try and bypass the strike-block-strike-block game. Of course, it couldn't be easy to do or at least would need a viable defense.

To anyone who thinks grappling doesn't apply to medieval combat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0LYlf24-ZM
BTW, techniques like these have actually been used successfully in sparring. They are also exclusively developed from historical Western texts and not from Eastern martial arts.

anyhow, that's my $0.02

[daumor]

I'm against the takedown idea, it sounds like more of an annoyance than fun.

[SpiderMandala]

I love this idea personally, I think its considerably more intuitive than the current manual block system. I don't think its particularly easier as the tricks to get through manual blocks, feinting and the like will still be totally relevant here. I think one of the big issues with manual block versus auto-block was brought up by MageLord (might be wrong) and that is that auto-block actually makes things harder on newbies because they dont learn the techniques and the more experienced players have auto-block too which makes them considerably tougher to fight for new players, whereas a manual block will still occasionally fail them and the enw player can get lucky.

I think a system like this is much more intuitive, requires some finesse instead of a chunky move click stop move click stop mechanic.

I agree with darkness that you dont just put yoru weapon out and hold it up and swing it to parry, however, you also dont put your weapon into a ready stance and hold it there for a long time which happens constantly in M&B too. You also don't put your shield up and hold it there indefinitely without your arm going dead from exhaustion. It is a game afterall, we need some leniency on reality to have an enjoyable balanced game.

I think this would be even MORE effective and fun a system if we put a small recoil time in when you parry a blow, to compensate for some of the important timing that the current manual block system uses. It would still leave openings and make timing important while making manual blockign a bit more intuitive.'

I also have to say I disagree with the takedown/grappling system. It's realistic and intricate but the fighting system in M&B is already complicated enough for most that we dont really need to be factoring in grappling as well in my opinion.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

I like this idea since the standard manual block sucks really bad.  Its so slow and buggy that you can't hardly point it in the right direction in time to block an attack even when you see it coming. 

[SockMonkeh]

The problem I see with the method you describe is that you will always be blocking in the direction you are turning your view. You opponent can exploit this by circling around you in one direction and swinging with his movement (which optimizes damage anyway). You will be blocking the wrong direction for the attack if you want to face him, and if you aren't facing him you won't block it anyway.

[Taraleon]

If you break from the strike-block-strike cycle and only block for a while, it's easier to concentrate on just that. When the enemy understands that you are just blocking, he might not see it coming WHEN you are about to start attacking after so many blocks.

[ares007]

The problem I see with the method you describe is that you will always be blocking in the direction you are turning your view. You opponent can exploit this by circling around you in one direction and swinging with his movement (which optimizes damage anyway). You will be blocking the wrong direction for the attack if you want to face him, and if you aren't facing him you won't block it anyway.

Yes, I had a feeling there would be a very simple way to exploit this blocking method, I just wasn't sure what it was. I honestly think this makes the proposed method obsolete (at least for serious competition).

however, you also dont put your weapon into a ready stance and hold it there for a long time which happens constantly in M&B too.

because you own a time machine and have actually seen knights sword fight...
On a more serious note, you should watch more of the ARMA stuff, especially the sparring. I remind you it was all developed from the treatises of Medieval/Renaissance masters. They quite commonly take a ready stance and hold it until they have an opportunity to attack (especially the downward attack stance and the stab).

I think this would be even MORE effective and fun a system if we put a small recoil time in when you parry a blow, to compensate for some of the important timing that the current manual block system uses. It would still leave openings and make timing important while making manual blockign a bit more intuitive.'

yes, I think this is mainly what we need

[seanparkerfilms]

I don't think that exploit will stop this proposed block method from working. Say your opponent circles around your right, you turn to follow him with the mouse, and he readies an attack to your left. Simply move your mouse to the left a tad when he swings. It doesn't necessarily have to be that you face left/right/high/low, it can be somewhat "gesture based." So any movement of the mouse to the left changes the block stance to a left block. Simple as that.

[jasonxfri13th]

Good idea.
Right now I have to move the screen while I try and block, and with high sensitivity it moves quite a bit.

And that would allow you to just stop and hold right MB and then do a series of blocks...