How to invade Russia?

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Cirdan said:
Griskard said:
Actually, The soviet union brought health care, infrastructure, education and law enforcement levels up to quite a high level, higher than what we have now. The government at the time was democratically elected and continued to run the country for several years afterwards at even higher levels again.
You had me until you claimed the government was democratically elected. It was "democratically elected" by a Party congress in which Babrak Karmal made it clear he was Moscow's choice, and if he wasn't elected they could kiss all the Soviet aid goodbye. A whole load of Afghan communists looked at the tons of military hardware being given to the Mujahdin, and then voted for guns from Russia.

Still, the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan and the Soviets achieved more than NATO and Karzaï, but they practically bankrupted the USSR in the process.

I used the term liberally, its just as democratically elected as the current one. :p
 
Haven't read the thread, but my theory is that you need two major countries, both of whom have to be about as strong (or stronger) as Russia, militarily, to invade Russia simultaneously from the East and West. The problem with Germany in WW2, was that, leading up to the winter of 1941, even though the Red Army had its arse soundly kicked, they were able to then mobilize their Siberian reserves, and unleash them on the battle weary Germans. If you can prevent this by getting them into a two-front war, you've beaten Russia.
 
Well, first of all I'm gonna say that TDM forgot to say that the polish-lithuanian commonwealth managed to take and hold Moscow. Only for a few years, but still longer than anyone else.

As for how to invade Russia... I would try to limit their income, so they cant equip their armies well... (i.e. trade embargoes, buying oil from a different source). Then, I would mobilize a cyber attack on all Russian electronic infrastructure. Be it civilian, corporate, government or military, I'd fry it all. Before I mobilized the cyber attack though, I'd order all our cyber infrastructure to have a manual backup (i.e. non-electronic) so that, even if things were much slower, nothing would collapse completely. Then, I'd try for a 2-way conventional warfare invasion of Russia. One coalition/country attacking from the West (I'd say probably say a coalition of European nations and American allies) as well as from the East ( i.e. a coalition of the U.S. , Canada, maybe Australia and Japan).

However, even if I could feasibly do this in real life, I wouldn't. Why? Because once things looked unwinnable for the Russians, they'd just use their nukes. Which is when we'd have to use our nukes. Which is when everything falls apart and we're all ****ed.

 
Jadow said:
Well, first of all I'm gonna say that TDM forgot to say that the polish-lithuanian commonwealth managed to take and hold Moscow. Only for a few years, but still longer than anyone else.
You're thinking about the Time of Troubles, right? That sortof doesn't count.
 
No need to worry about theyr nukes, half of them are too rusty to use and the other half is probably stolen and sold to scrap metal.
Same goes for tanks, ships and planes.
 
Jadow said:
Well, first of all I'm gonna say that TDM forgot to say that the polish-lithuanian commonwealth managed to take and hold Moscow. Only for a few years, but still longer than anyone else.

As for how to invade Russia... I would try to limit their income, so they cant equip their armies well... (i.e. trade embargoes, buying oil from a different source). Then, I would mobilize a cyber attack on all Russian electronic infrastructure. Be it civilian, corporate, government or military, I'd fry it all. Before I mobilized the cyber attack though, I'd order all our cyber infrastructure to have a manual backup (i.e. non-electronic) so that, even if things were much slower, nothing would collapse completely. Then, I'd try for a 2-way conventional warfare invasion of Russia. One coalition/country attacking from the West (I'd say probably say a coalition of European nations and American allies) as well as from the East ( i.e. a coalition of the U.S. , Canada, maybe Australia and Japan).

However, even if I could feasibly do this in real life, I wouldn't. Why? Because once things looked unwinnable for the Russians, they'd just use their nukes. Which is when we'd have to use our nukes. Which is when everything falls apart and we're all ****ed.

Now remember, Im not here to fry anyone. So dont read this as if I'm writing it angst filled or anything.

Russia is an export economy, mainly raw materials. So they need the sales to survive, thankfully for them, the west needs their stuff. I assume were ignoring public opinion here, because most people don't like paying their weekly wage to afford to travel to work. On the plus side, it will be good for the environment!

Cyber infrastructure in Russia isn't quite as advanced as it is in the USA, so while it will hurt them, it won't hurt that much, and their military will be pretty much unaffected. So it would certainly have an effect on their economy, but not as major as it would be if performed in reverse. That is of course assuming that your hackers do the awesome and cut through them like butter. I do think though your trivialising how hard it is to transfer everything to a hard copy version, but seeing as were talking war with the bear, I will assume that it would be done...

Russia on the other hand would still have a higher percentage of their stuff hard copy.

Now, lets move to the invasion plans. Currently you have planned for oil supplies, so thats a non issue.

Eastern Invasion:

Japan currently has nothing in the way of offensive ability. They gave it away with the idea of a god emperor, currently their defence forces are precisely that only. However if you convince them into it, I guess they could make pretty good meat shields. Them crazy japanese :grin:

Canada and Australia, assuming they put themselves into a state of conscription and what not might be able to muster up, 200k troops between them? They both have standing armys of about 55 000. Sort of a sucky side the east. Maybe South Korea could help, assuming they are willing to divert troops from their own border.

Would America be entering conscription mode or not? If not I figure maybe a million, million and a half max deployment. If they conscripted? Lets say 5.
However that will actually be needed to fight in the west, so lets go halvsies.

I wont include South Korea, because if they deployed troops to Russia, NK might cause some problems.

Eastern Invasion force without conscription: 750 000
Eastern Invastion force with conscription: 2 700 000



Western Invasion:

The west however is where alot of the action is at. Russians industry is generally to the western side of the country (However the largest parts are still in central russia) So lets run some numbers.

Germany: Capable of deploying perhaps... 200 000 troops. Lets say a mill with conscription
United Kingdom: Due to distance chances are they would be less inclined to transport troops in as large a quantitys. Maybe deploy 100 000. Lets say 300 with conscription

Ukraine: A tentative 100 000. With conscription not alot more. Neighbouring Belarus would exert enough pressure to make them conservative.

America will probably deploy half of their forces here. Bringing the total to

4 Million troops. Nice. Without conscription it dwindles to a less respectable 1.15 million.



The issue here is Russia is fighting on home soild and can deploy 100% of forces, without needing to leave reserve at home. Using the same generous calculation they would pull up in the region of 5 or 6 million. However the defender is always gonna have an easier time in getting numbers, so the whole patriotism thing could easily jack it to 10.

Fighting an advanced enemy, on their own ground, which is rather hostile is a bad thing. On top of that, two fronts will generally favour the defender over the attacker, unless for some reason there must be two fronts, or the attackers have land borders. The reason being is simply logistics is much easier to handle inside the castle than out.

The Russian military doesn't have a reputation for incompetence, rather ruthlessness and efficiency. Their air defences are arguably more advanced than their american counterparts, and their ground forces have always been a step above most western militarys. The area I can see the west taking a bit of ground is the air, however the upgraded MiG-31 (If I have my numbers right) is capable of intercepting the F-22 relatively easy, and the russians took the time to invest in IR tracking, which is arguably worse for the F-22. The F-22 does posess BVR targeting, but if a MiG gets in close its all over, they invented supermanouverability. Even the MiG 25 flown by Iraqis has shot down american planes on occasion.

Anyway, Gotta go now. So even assuming all your plans work, your in for one hell of a fight.




 
I'd use my time machine (Yes I have one) to go back in time to WW2, Beat FDR in the presidential election, I'd then let Japan do what they want and create good relations with them, then I'd join the Axis forces with Germany and Invade Siberia, and help Germany beat the British through joint efforts between the Luftwaffe and American airforce.

After that reinforce the ostfront, and hopefully Japan would join us on the Siberian front. Defeat for the USSR would be inevitable either way.

---Griskard Germany has an active military of over 250,000, and over 350,000 in reserves. For your numbers you should wiki.
 
Remember noone deploys 100% of their troops, and Germany sitting where it does, isn't going to be overly keen on the idea of deploying them all.

The closer they are to the combat zone, the less troops as a percentage of their total troops they will deploy.
 
0,plan for 5 years of war (you will not be home for xmas)
0.5 pick the best bits cos there is loads of it(6,592,800 sq mi)
i.e. The Urals do have large deposits of gold, platinum, coal, iron, nickel, silver, oil  but there deep in to russia,)
1 start in summer attcking on 3 fronts((Europe  to Moscow, China and Mongolia for two fronts,,Kazakhstan up the Urals to split Russia in two)
2 stop for the winter and dig in
3 use your air power and elite troops to stop the russian conter attack
4 restart after the winter be wary of a cold snap stoping you
5 remember that russia has a lot Ethnic groups if you can stir up old trouble it will help
6 dont treat the people bady(Hitler help Stalin to no end doing this)
7take your time the plan is not to take all but the best bits
 
Your making the assumption China would be keen on fighting Russia, and while their alliance is more of an alliance of convenience, I highly doubt they will help you.

Kazakhstan relies on Russia for their own defence, so the probably aren't overly interested in suiciding for you.

In their own space Russia would have air dominance. Their AA is right up there, and their fighters and pilots aren't exactly what propaganda would have you believe.
 
Here's my new plan.

1. Convince Russia your their ally.
2. Bring in your army, telling them that your just bringing them for a party.
3. Make sure you bring Vodka.
4. Party it up with the Russians.
5. When they are on their hang over, kill em.
6. Party like it's 1999!
 
georgiansoldier said:
the russians arent RUSIANS THEY ARE HALF MONGOLS AND HALF RUSSIANS. AND THEY ARE *****ES . RUSSIA GO FACK YOURSELF  :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
As much as I share your racial hatred towards the Russian people I still condemn your post for your lack of manners and general stupidity.
 
georgiansoldier said:
the russians arent RUSIANS THEY ARE HALF MONGOLS AND HALF RUSSIANS. AND THEY ARE *****ES . RUSSIA GO FACK YOURSELF  :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I have to point out that if someone is Russian, then how can they not be Russian, but instead, Half Russian, and Half Mongols?  Where did Russian come from in the first place, then? 

Also, if you want somewhere to go slam the Russians, I suggest making your own forum for that.  Rather then ruining my eyes with the outright displays of hate and bigotry.
 
georgiansoldier said:
the russians arent RUSIANS THEY ARE HALF MONGOLS AND HALF RUSSIANS. AND THEY ARE *****ES . RUSSIA GO FACK YOURSELF  :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Hahahaha yeah I know man, remember that time Georgia ****ed all their **** up in a few days? Oh wait.
 
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