SP Fantasy Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players

drdoom151 said:

wow weim18... too much of a read for me 

yes, Include some other small stuff like going to one village and getting all the taxes there instead of having to go to all villages and stuff like that.

Cheers
DrDoom151

Click to expand...

DrDoom 151, sorry about the length of the post  .  I just haven't had a chance to post lately and when I try I keep getting interruptred at home . . .I guess I went a bit overboard,  I just wanted to get the ideas to Johnny.  Please take a minute or two, haha, to read the full post.  I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

Just wanted to say great mod first of all. I like the nords more now then normal Native

Now after saying those nice things, are you going to implement other minor important things into this mod like knighthood orders, brotherhoods or things like that. You might be able to implement them with a new quest or kingdom management option to dedicate a castle to produce these troops (could be a minor faction with in an existing faction).

I still wonder what type of new faction are you introducing 

Glad to see someone that like to get new ideas and try to implement them.

PS: I'm sorry if my english isn't very good, it's not my native language.

Hey, weim18. Good to hear from you. Really, I appreciate all the ideas.

The name, the Kingdom of Laerte, comes loosely from the mythological father of Odysseus - indeed I should be planning to implement Greek elements into their armor set. The name Laertes is also shared by the Shakespearean character Laertes, who can be said to represent the brasher side of authoritarian rule. Sounds like a good idea to me, since your concept synchs quite well with it.

Originally I thought it might be a cool idea to leave a faction without territory, and allow the player to deal with them if he so chooses. The way the game is set up, though, is that in order to be a functional faction they would have to have some territory in which their "lords" could respawn, otherwise they would be considered defeated and would go off joining other factions. It's a cool concept to think about, but for the time and effort involved I don't think I could crank out the proper modifications, tested and all, to make such a thing possible. It might be possible to spawn them like bandits, but assuming that these knights you have in mind would be unique NPCs that could lead to numerous problems, such as possible duplication of hero characters and so forth. I'll keep this in the back of my head, though, since it's a romantic concept, and we'll see if time permits that kind of modification for this update, which I'd like to have finished with some time before Warband is released, blowing everything away.

Finally, having one guy who rolls in by himself and starts wiping stuff out is a very theatric idea, but the game isn't really equipped to handle something like that at the moment. Second he runs into a major army, whether he's level 50 or 500 (Which would be ridiculous) sheer numbers in the automatic battle simulation would stop him, unless the player is, by any chance, able to see this battle as it starts and intervene. And setting up some code to have him automatically wipe out major armies would simply ruin things. This does, however, sound like a fair idea for a quest NPC that the player could choose to assist in some way. Any ideas in that direction?


To triptick and DrDoom151:

Currently I'm toying around with different forms of kingdom management. I think having some means of collecting taxes without having to visit ludicrously out-of-the-way villages like Aldelen, Epesche, Veidar and Peshmi just to collect taxes. I owned all of these before, and probably got around to stopping there three times per game. Fief management should also be less cumbersome, and there should be more benefit to owning a castle, beyond being forced to defend it with little reward. As Native stands, you're better off just owning a village. Management issues aren't the focus of this mod, but they should be integrated so that the player can focus on what is the focus - the wide and creative mix of troops and equipment coupled with with advanced options in combat.


To Bernhardt:

Haha, you posted in the middle of me typing up this horribly all-encompassing reply. Thanks for the compliments. I had a lot of fun adding to the Nord tree. Producing knighthood orders sort of reminds me of an idea I had about getting lords to get companions like the player does. It reminds me of this, because I don't very much like the way the player gets all these abilities to which NPC lords have no access. If this would be something I could allow other lords to do as well, without too much trouble, I'd certainly implement it. There's a big difference between running into an army of regulars, then hitting a wave of elite guards, each of which has his own character. I'll keep this in mind and see what I can do with it.


Any more thoughts/opinions, totally welcome. I'm glad everyone likes how I'm considering all ideas. Just seems to me that that's what Mount&Blade is all about.

Oh! so you actually wan't to make things harder and even for the Lords  sounds fun!

Well you could try to rework the King-Lord thing allowing lords to have vassals of their own, like the player can hire companions.

The lords could challenge you to duels if there is a certain amount of hatred towards you and are in the same faction or have enough renown and from another faction (chivalrous stuff). A player shouldn't be able to challenge a Lord that has more renown, but the lord might use some sort of champion to deal with you since yer inferior to him in renown.

PS: I have heard of quick replies but this was awesome LOL

yea and i always liked to creat my own rebel team and hire lords to my side and overthrow the majority

Don't worry triptick, rebel quests will still be very much in force here. I plan to add new types of claimant quests, as well.

Bernhardt, I actually thought about the duel challenging deal. Since someone else brought it up, I'm bumping it up on my list of things to add.

So here's what I've been promising for days... don't have a ton of time, but I thought I'd hurry up and put this out there for you:

The Official ASTCM Signatures


Thanks again to my brother for the screenshots (finally)

Later on,
Johnny

Hey Johnny, glad you liked my post, hopefully it was helpful for at least a few ideas for you.

Can't wait to see the Kingdom of Laerte . . . my guess is they will be visually stunning.  I'm really excited that this faction has some strong Greek influences.

I wasn't sure if the "Band of Warriors/Old Knights" concept was even possible.  However, the discussion that you and Bernhardt were having was interesting to me . . .  the ideas of knighthoods, brotherhoods, or the ability of a Lord from a rival faction being able to have his own NPC heros.  If the "Band of Warriors" idea would be too hard to mod, would it be a possibility for these NPC heros to have a variety of unique armor sets?  That way if you defeat one in battle they might drop the unique armor so you could use it in your party or you might even be able to persuade them to join forces with you.  This would flood the game with tons of unique items/banners/colors.  Let me know what you think.

Lastly, sorry I wasn't clear about the Viking/Warlord concept.  He would have his own large invading army (like the Black Knights in Native Expansion mod), however, this Warlord would simply be a very strong general/lord . . . having the highest attributes in the game and being a killing machine on the battlefield.  I wasn't thinking of him fighting 300 guys all by himself . . . my fault for not being clear on that.

The new signatures look great.  Talk to you soon Johnny

How does this sound to you...

There are a number of "champion mercenaries" (which I'm calling so now, for lack of any better term at the moment), which function as hero characters and will most likely persist through the entire game, in full view of the player. Maybe even whomping on Dranton in a tournament or two (by the way, I am totally fixing tournaments so you get a melee weapon if you're ranged - arrows as the only weapon is shyte). These mercs will each be unique, and will work for any lord, occasionally offering their services to the player. They are high-level troops whose equipment cannot be modified like normal heroes, though they can be leveled up as normal. In order for a player to hire one of these troops, he must be captured and spoken to, or met in a town, then be paid an amount of cash (which will be a lot) for a starting bonus after being persuaded by the player. Whether or not he or she joins will be a factor of the player's persuasive ability, past relations, and how much the player's willing to shell out. These freelancers will leave the player's party, however, at the slightest inclination, or until some contract expires, then go seek work with other lords. How does that sound for an idea?

And concerning your Warlord concept, Weim18, I'm starting to like the idea. Might actually be fun to program, if I have the time. This would be something that happens every year or two of gametime - suddenly Beowurg the Bombastic (or whatever - that was the name of an old Nord test character of mine) from the native Nord country shows up with his army to attempt another takeover. He'll continue to fight until defeated. During this time, however, the player can decide to join up with him, working with him as if he were a normal king. That might be doable, presuming I can sufficiently test the mod to work out all the kinks.

Well if you need a nice list of names for NPC character I can help 


triptick: I agree with you, that's the most fun way to win.

weim18: Thanks for liking the idea, but I don't think you should be able to get so many unique items from those characters or it would become the item hunting game more or less, rather give them some unique equipment that makes the NPC remarkable and not easy to forget like most lords. At least I would remember a lord/heroe with a particular heavy hitting two-handed sword or a particular archer or crossbow sniper lord/hero just to say some examples.

And if you are going for the duel thing just make it so the player cannot challenge anyone with more renown then he has and the king could have a ubber champion to fight in his stead that could be a NPC heroe that is unique to each King.

Another idea  change the name of the forest ****ers LOL it's funny that's all just say forest thief's, pillagers or plunderers just as an example. Mercenary champions could be switched to a different name according to the place the NPC comes from, like a nord npc could be called Sklaveritter (master swordsman), spearsman of the gale, etc...

In the update I plan on basing all the new names on historical, literary, or at least mythological precedent (as with the future Laerteans, particularly, but also so with the other two new factions I have planned). Forest ****er is a funny name, but then again, when you think about it, so is Sword Sister. Which is why I added the Crossbow ***** as an alternative upgrade.

In order to challenge anyone to a duel, certain conditions would have to be met. Otherwise the player could just run around dueling everyone. Diplomatically a duel can be useful, and it can also be a tool for attaining more renown. But I don't want to see it coming up as an extra option every time you talk to a lord, either. I'll have to think about this, because I don't want it to be overbearing on the intended theme of this mod. But put into context, and made interesting in other ways (such as, if you challenge a lord while he waits at his castle, you can have an honor duel on the battlements), it could prove to be a valuable asset.

That being said, I'd make sure there are real consequences for challenging someone and for being challenged, and your response to challenges. Relations will be affected with lords and kingdoms. Different lords should respond in different ways to being challenged, etc. I'll keep thinking about this as I piece things together. I am certainly liking the idea of duels as a political weapon.

Johnny Morphine said:

How does this sound to you...

There are a number of "champion mercenaries" (which I'm calling so now, for lack of any better term at the moment), which function as hero characters and will most likely persist through the entire game, in full view of the player. Maybe even whomping on Dranton in a tournament or two (by the way, I am totally fixing tournaments so you get a melee weapon if you're ranged - arrows as the only weapon is shyte). These mercs will each be unique, and will work for any lord, occasionally offering their services to the player. They are high-level troops whose equipment cannot be modified like normal heroes, though they can be leveled up as normal. In order for a player to hire one of these troops, he must be captured and spoken to, or met in a town, then be paid an amount of cash (which will be a lot) for a starting bonus after being persuaded by the player. Whether or not he or she joins will be a factor of the player's persuasive ability, past relations, and how much the player's willing to shell out. These freelancers will leave the player's party, however, at the slightest inclination, or until some contract expires, then go seek work with other lords. How does that sound for an idea?

And concerning your Warlord concept, Weim18, I'm starting to like the idea. Might actually be fun to program, if I have the time. This would be something that happens every year or two of gametime - suddenly Beowurg the Bombastic (or whatever - that was the name of an old Nord test character of mine) from the native Nord country shows up with his army to attempt another takeover. He'll continue to fight until defeated. During this time, however, the player can decide to join up with him, working with him as if he were a normal king. That might be doable, presuming I can sufficiently test the mod to work out all the kinks.

Click to expand...

Johnny, great idea about the "champion mercenaries".  I think this could add a unique element to the gameplay.  How many different "champ mercs" were you thinking about having in game?  Side note on this topic: What about adding the possibility of loyalty to the champ mercs? For example, if you've worked with them and done favorably in battle  . . . leads to a better chance of them joining up with you again (more easily later on).  Also, what about the possibility of them becoming a traitor as the battle starts . . . like an ambush or back stabbing?  Your thoughts? 

Bernhardt: Point well taken about the "unique item hunting game" becoming a problem . . . I could easily see this happening (but one unique item every once in a great while wouldn't be a terrible thing).  I agree that these champion mercs should have both memorable weapons, armor, and helms.  If this does get implemented, hopefully Johnny would be able to have them appear on a regular enough basis so we get to know the character a bit, rather then only seeing them hanging out in the taverns.

Lastly Johnny, do you have an ideas for how many NPC heros will be available to join with in game?  Please tell me that you are still planning on keeping their equipment customizable.

I like what I hear guys.  Keep the ideas flowing!  And again, Johnny thanks for listening to( and possibly implementing) so many ideas from those of us that have no idea how to mod . . . what a dream come true.

Hey Weim18,
Thanks for your great  ideas mate You have some awesome stuff flowing in your brain there.


Love the Idea of the champ mercs, adds alot of variety to the gameplay which you won't get tired of too soon.


Also, I'd like to see to be able to hire troops in taverns instead of just in the villages.
Not that a townsman/woman will end up in a merc. and leveling should also be a bit slower because it's unbelievable how fast the troops are leveling. I recruit them and within 2 days I end them up from simple recruits with linen clothes and a simple spear in Champs with incredibly heavy armor and a nice heavy weapon.

Only my oppinion and ofcourse it's open for disscussion.


Cheers
DrDoom151

Yo, gentlemen. I spent the few hours I had to spare today working out how some of the new weapons will affect different types of mounts. Not something we discussed here, but I wanted to get it underway, seeing as this will be fundamental in future consideration of this mod.

Here's what I have planned:
Explosions/fire (i.e. proximity to the discharge of a large calibre firearm or incendiary device) will cause some mounts to rear and stall, particularly lower breeds of horses. This has been tested and works perfectly.
There will be new types of mounts that will be less affected by these conditions (though Chargers, Warhorses and Hunters should remain largely immune due to their breeding/training). Unfortunately it looks like any new mounts will still sound identical to the old horses. But I'm sure that won't get too much in the way of your enjoyment.

Regular NPC heroes will certainly still be upgraded/equipped as normal. Main reason I wouldn't want the player to be able to adjust equipment of a high-level merc is that it would be just too easy to hire someone, steal his expensive gear, then send him packing. Besides, any self-respecting freelancer would have nothing to do with some pathetic player telling him how to fight. There should probably be at least a dozen of these bastards running around so that they will play a significant part in the game. Relations with them will affect how likely they are to join you. But I should have things set so you can't go around hiring all of them at once.

I do plan to have some unique items available only through looting, but I'm going to make sure they'll show up enough for you to actually loot. This is because there are certain things that just wouldn't get sold in any shop on the corner. Not that these are going to be the game's best items that you'll spend years trying to snag; they're just unique. If you get them, cool. If not, no big loss.

I've been thinking of a few things that have been mentioned here before, along with DrDoom151's suggestion about recruiting from towns (which, incidentally, the original game claims to let you do at one point). A lot of these things can be readily implemented with fief improvements.

One good one for a town would be some sort of recruitment center. I'll think more about the details of this as things progress.

A couple improvements I had in mind for castles include a forge and a tournament square.

The tournament square would allow you to duel lords under certain conditions, and also allow you to set up mini-tournaments every so often, from which you would reap some of the profits on betting/attendance. This would depend on who you can convince to show up for the tournament.
I'm hoping to be able to turn this into a sort of training/testing ground, as well, so you can experiment with different types of troops in your castle/party.

The forge is simple. If you need a weapon upgraded, you supply some raw materials and some cash, give your blacksmith some time to work, and you can turn the chipped great morningstar you looted off some Swadians into a balanced one. Higher upgrades will, of course, cost more in cash and materials.

None of these should be particularly difficult to code. The forge should remove a lot of the item hunting, the tournament square will let you duel with lords, and the recruitment center will make your towns a little more useful as well.

Thoughts?

Oh, and DrDoom151, there is an alternative upgrade path for farmers in the release of the mod you're playing now. I intentionally made it difficult to do, but you can turn farmers into fairly interesting infantry/cavalry more suited to what you'd expect from a farmer. I plan on expanding this further in the next update.

A great read Johnny,  you keep me burning 

I love the idea of adding the forge etc.
As you said, the raw materials. Can you also make sure the tools are actually worth having? because right now, why spend 410 coins on something that just fills your inventory.
What I'd also like this see is that the farmers won't just be able to work as merc for you but also on your plantation(s) in your town/village. Which would also make the option available to buy/hire some more ground near your village (ofcourse hiring is way cheaper but more expensive over time).


Personally I think not just the relation with the faction would make you able to hire those mercs but also your reown and honor would play a great role.

Cheers
DrDoom151
P.S. maybe I'm a bit too greedy . But the beautiful weather really gives you ideas. hehe

Yes, all aspects of the character's reputation will be taken into account. It's just another line of code and another random number check. The Mercs will be faction-free.

Yeah, right now tools are just for trade. You can make a killing on them like that, but this time around tools and iron will improve your gear. Something different will be needed for bows and stuff. But I also want to make ale good for something. Haha. Like a way to improve morale by sacrificing field speed, or something.

Please explain what you're saying about farmers a little better. I think you lost me on that one. Not sure how that would be much different than building a mill.

Gotta run. Later mates

Hey,
Okay so, as you said, you can hire farmers/townsmen in the tavern. Lets say the farmer can level up and become (let's say you're swadian) a swadian recruit (just saying as example because I don't want to see it this way) and the townsman can become a merc.
Now, instead of leveling them up, you can go to your village and let the farmer work on your plantations for more income and if you have a town you can have the townsman be a citizen in your town and this will give you more income (from taxes). This will give some more variation.
Ofcourse you can't just let 500 farmers work on one single field so, you have to hire (or buy) a new field for them to work on. This will either generate food/goods or money, all your call.

Cheers
DrDoom151
P.S. All open to discussion

Ah, I see what you're saying now. The way you state it, though, it sounds to me more like a way to generate population than a way to generate prosperity. Just ask China - these two are not necessarily the same thing. On top of that it's another way for the player to make money, which would be an option difficult to make available for lords, hence being another overly advantageous option for the player. I'm not discounting the idea entirely, but I don't think it would be something worth the time it would take to program into a mod, especially seeing as it's something far from the intended purpose of this one. Also buying ground for your villages sounds like something that would be a little difficult to code and to have make sense, since that would require changes on the world map, in the village, etc. to really make the effect immersive enough to look solid.

I plan on looking into what exactly it is that lords use to make money (thereby increasing their ability to wage war). I understand that this is reflected by the prosperity of their villages/towns in some way, but I'd like to add other factors as well. If I can find a way to add the same options or a fair equivalency of them for lords, something like this could be worth considering.

Johnny Morphine said:

Yeah, right now tools are just for trade. You can make a killing on them like that, but this time around tools and iron will improve your gear. Something different will be needed for bows and stuff. But I also want to make ale good for something. Haha. Like a way to improve morale by sacrificing field speed, or something.

Click to expand...

Introduce new goods items:  ash and oak to make top-quality arrows, yew or horn for bows...
You could also have the option, when slaughtering looted cows, of getting one unit of 'sinew' instead of two units of meat: Sinew makes bowstrings.
Ale...  improves morale so long as you have OTHER food units.  If you have only ale, or ale and wine, then it should have a massive morale penalty - drinking on empty stomachs....

Amman de Stazia said:

Introduce new goods items:  ash and oak to make top-quality arrows, yew or horn for bows...
You could also have the option, when slaughtering looted cows, of getting one unit of 'sinew' instead of two units of meat: Sinew makes bowstrings.
Ale...  improves morale so long as you have OTHER food units.  If you have only ale, or ale and wine, then it should have a massive morale penalty - drinking on empty stomachs....

Click to expand...

Nice idea about sinew. I was wondering how to handle that part of the bow. I was sure I'd have to add items for wood. I'm going to have to look into the way the game stores the original faction ID of each castle, if even it does, because I'd like castles from each faction to have different specialties for forges. Vaegirs would be great with bows. Khergits would have something to do with horses and bows. Laerteans would have supreme skill in enhancing firearms. Stuff along that line.

And I agree, Ale alone can't keep a whole party happy. Although it does a good job keeping me happy. I can live for days on ale alone (though I prefer lager). Speaking of alcohol, I've got some whiskey I should be drinking. Oughtta add that to the list.

Other non-combat items I plan to introduce include a few other commodities (some other reasons to visit the new factions) as well as new books. First on my list will be two books that, upon reading, will increase your shield skill and your riding, respectively. These are two things which unarguably could be improved by a manual. Other skills will most likely be covered.

I've been thinking that I should reduce the accuracy of bows and crossbows slightly, since it appears I'll be adjusting the power throws of all archers so that they actually have the skills they deserve for their level anyway. For bows, especially, this would add a degree of realism. I'm talking just a handful of points, though.

Sounds very promising!
How about needing ale and other alcoholic stuff when sieging? Because which army wouldn't be scared of a siege?
And what do you think about a diplomatic hero who can, for a certain amount of payment, neutralize your relationship with a hostile faction?
The Forge could also be needed for making Siege equipment like ladders and siegetowers. From wood obviously.
I know I'm not a person with good ideas but hey, f*ck it 

Cheers
DrDoom151