Poll

Just for the hell of it: Which of the new factions are you most looking forward to seeing? (see the list, now in the original post)

Laertean Empire
18 (11.8%)
Sphere of Azathoth
14 (9.2%)
Kingdom of Segimer
9 (5.9%)
Abydan Empire
8 (5.3%)
Decimus Peregrinus
23 (15.1%)
Kingdom of Asgard
48 (31.6%)
Shumisen Empire
16 (10.5%)
Satyrnian Confederation
16 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 151

Author Topic: Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players  (Read 41127 times)

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drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #75 on: July 06, 2009, 01:38:05 PM »
Just something... the pics really ruin the overview over the first post... put them in a spoiler
Code: [Select]
[spoiler]pics[/spoiler]

Also, have you thought of changing lord/king names and faction names etc.?
And the difference between Rhodok trained spearman and Rhodok Phalanx Interidate (dunno if i spelled it right) is too big whilst  the difference between Rhodok Spearman and trained spearman is way too small. :? (in equipment)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 02:26:40 PM by drdoom151 »


Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #76 on: July 06, 2009, 02:46:20 PM »
Eh, I like the idea of big screenshots. While a spoiler can keep things a little tidier, as a once-in-a-while graphic designer I prefer to throw images at people to get their attention and show them what's in the bottle rather than make them go through the effort to open it and dump it on the floor to see what it's made of.

I don't think it's my place to change any of the names from Native. No matter what their names are Lord Haringoth will still look like a villain from Star Trek and Lord Druli will still look like this crazy physics professor I once knew. Though I have thought about changing some of the titles of nobility, so that you get something less repetitive than LORD Thisorthat marching around Calradia all the time. I don't think it would add anything if I changed it though. Merely  changing names of the original lords/factions would be like a crude form of plagiarism. The update's new factions should help cure your boredom.

I know what you're saying about how powerful the Phalanx Initiates seem to be compared to the previous rank. It's the same way with the Rhodoks' usual jump to Veteran Spearmen (who actually outclass the R.P.I.s in everything but throwing). The Rhodok Tree from Native is pretty screwed up, because it's an even bigger jump from Vet. Spearmen to Sergeants. The Rhodoks don't seem to follow the expected pattern of one skill point per level, and there's a related issue with each of the other factions as well (though at least Nord Infantry seems to make sense with its skill points). It's like the game finally rewards you with a considerably overpowered (in comparison to other troops of his level) Sergeant for actually going through the trouble of upgrading through these overtly pathetic troops. Which is rubbish, in my opinion. This is the reason I put that poll at the top of this page - to see if anyone agrees with me. And apparently they do, based on the current tally. So as things stand I'll be doing a lot of work with the original troop tree so it makes a little more sense in the update, which will synch well with the new factions' trees when they're done.

weim18

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2009, 08:00:35 PM »
Thought I'd try to get a real quick response to everyone who posted -

Amman, the gauntlet idea is genius. I don't think I'd have thought of that myself. This guy is totally in the game. I'm not sure if or even how spotting is used by lords - I think spotting of non-player-party npcs have their spotting scale slightly with the player. I started looking to that earlier, then got sidetracked then had to sleep. But I always thought it would be cool for other lords to have party skills like spotting, pathfinding, and first aid, etc. I also wanted to make regular troops that have training - - - we'll find out to what extent these things can be made useful later on in the week.

weim18: I remember Willow. One of my favorite movies when I was a kid. I wasn't planning that exact look for that faction, but I was planning to include armor like that in the game, probably some powerful outlaws.
Here's a spoiler - Sphere's claimant quest is going to come from one of its own lords. You can I think similarly sometimes, I can see that. Here's the first currently on-line example of that faction's appearance I could think of (don't have my art scanned yet)

(click to show/hide)

Time for me to get to work. Later

Johnny, thanks for the response . . . sorry it has taken me a bit of time to respond.  I think the concept of some badass looking out laws is solid (i.e. with General Kael-type armor concept).  Again, these are just a few ideas I had running through my head . . . would be cool to see if you like the concepts.  Again, I'm not one of those guys that needs to see everything historically accurate (I understand why others have this passion, but it is just not me.)  I would much rather play a mod that is visually pleasing to the eye . . . spectacular armor to either equip myself or my army with or fighting against (on the enemy) on the battlefield . . . I think that this was a major reason I was drawn to this mod . . . it seems that you have this same vision.  Anyways, enough babbling. . . here are some of the other ideas I wasn't able to touch on during my last post:

Back to the Willow topic, I'm glad you remember the movie . . . this will be easier to explain.  It would be cool to see some armor sets similar to that of the Army of Galladoorn, led by Madmartigan's old friend Airk Thaughbaer.  The loose concept of the armor is based on Greek armor ( as you probably remember).  With that said, you never see this type of armor mingled in with with any mods unless it is from its specific time period (i.e. greek, rome, macedonia, carthage, etc).  My idea would be for a faction or minor faction to have this similar look . . . key concept would be that the armor would infact look older and worn . . .with a bronze type of coloring (All except for the Lord(s) or a few upper tier troops, which would look better).  This going along with the concept that this armor was passed down from generation to generation to generation to generation . . . again, this stuff is old.  The armor would be moderately heavy and the soldiers would use lighter horses.  (I know you had a faction concept similar to this, but my guess, knowing you Johnny, is that you already have the look thought out.)  Therefore if this doesn't fit your idea . . .maybe a roaming minor faction that could be built up by the player if chosen to.  I had played with the concept of requesting a Willow mod, but I don't think there is enough substance for it to stand alone.  The Greek type of armor has just too cool of a look to not have it in game.  So that is what is comes down to  . . . kickass armor sets.

Another couple ideas: This again would be for a minor wandering faction that could be built up ( if this is even possible for you to mod).  The concept is a large band of "wandering old knights" that have been individually defeated or exiled.  The group would be of decent size, but there skill sets would be very low to start out with other then one skill that is high (something that the knight was inborn with and did not completely loose after his army and kingdom was ripped out from under him).  Each knight would have his own cool armor set and banner/ horse cover that was from his previous land.  Each old knight would have a distinctive look . . .  thus the battlefield would be a spectacular view of stunning armor concepts and different colors.  This army could be built up to good strength if the right knight (user played) joined the party to become the leader.  These knights could level up, but it would take a lot of time and continued battlefield experience . . .to restore their confidence.  Again, over time, this unit could become a strong force on the battle map.  If no knight steps in to lead the group, they continue to float around the map as a menace that never becomes that powerful.  Almost like King Arthurs's knights, but these knights are not great warriors anymore (although once were).  Implementation would probably be similar to a group of NPC heros that are in themselves "A Band of Warriors".  This would allow you to throw some kickass armor concepts in the game . . .that you don't need to take the time to develop an entire faction.  I just see so many cool sets of armor floating around in all the different mods, yet there has been no way (for those inexperienced at modding) to see the various styles and concepts in ONE game/mod.

Lastly, it would be cool to see some sort of Viking/Nord Warlord in the game.  Now I'm talking a guy who is probably the best warrior in the game . . . I mean a guy that can wipe out a large army on the battlefield by himself if need be.  I'm thinking this guy has a large battle worn helmet with a set of the biggest horns imaginable.  Weapon of choice: a double bladed axe and a war hammer that shatter the shields of his rivals.  I'm talking a guy that when you see him riding his horse from the distance into battle . . . all you think is "Oh Shit".  This viking would be strong enough to use both of his two handed weapons on top of his war horse, but will also get off his horse to battle on foot without blinking an eye.  If there is already a character like this in game, please dismiss this, if there is not, he could possibly invade from the north with his own army later in the game.  I guy with these attributes would be the greatest warrior the land of Calradia has ever seen!  Who would be good enough to kill him . . . I think many that are fans of this game and mod would like to step up to the challenge.

Sorry about the length of this post to all that read it, but I just want to get these concepts out to Johnny.  If anyone has thoughts on these ideas, feel free to post.  If Johnny likes the concept of the "in game band of warriors/old knights . . . people could post screen shots of armor concepts or send files to Johnny so that he could use them in his mod if he would choose to do so.  It's all about the armor mates . . . visually pleasing and a kickass look!

Thanks guys   
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 08:08:53 PM by weim18 »

triptick

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2009, 08:03:42 PM »
this mod is great.
But.... it needs dome of those key features like kingdom managment,ect.

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2009, 08:23:10 PM »
wow weim18... too much of a read for me  :roll:

yes, Include some other small stuff like going to one village and getting all the taxes there instead of having to go to all villages and stuff like that.

Cheers
DrDoom151


weim18

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2009, 08:38:24 PM »
wow weim18... too much of a read for me  :roll:

yes, Include some other small stuff like going to one village and getting all the taxes there instead of having to go to all villages and stuff like that.

Cheers
DrDoom151

DrDoom 151, sorry about the length of the post  :oops:.  I just haven't had a chance to post lately and when I try I keep getting interruptred at home . . .I guess I went a bit overboard,  I just wanted to get the ideas to Johnny.  Please take a minute or two, haha, to read the full post.  I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

Bernhardt

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2009, 11:39:37 PM »
Just wanted to say great mod first of all. I like the nords more now then normal Native :D

Now after saying those nice things, are you going to implement other minor important things into this mod like knighthood orders, brotherhoods or things like that. You might be able to implement them with a new quest or kingdom management option to dedicate a castle to produce these troops (could be a minor faction with in an existing faction).

I still wonder what type of new faction are you introducing  :)

Glad to see someone that like to get new ideas and try to implement them.

PS: I'm sorry if my english isn't very good, it's not my native language.

Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #82 on: July 08, 2009, 12:21:25 AM »
Hey, weim18. Good to hear from you. Really, I appreciate all the ideas.

The name, the Kingdom of Laerte, comes loosely from the mythological father of Odysseus - indeed I should be planning to implement Greek elements into their armor set. The name Laertes is also shared by the Shakespearean character Laertes, who can be said to represent the brasher side of authoritarian rule. Sounds like a good idea to me, since your concept synchs quite well with it.

Originally I thought it might be a cool idea to leave a faction without territory, and allow the player to deal with them if he so chooses. The way the game is set up, though, is that in order to be a functional faction they would have to have some territory in which their "lords" could respawn, otherwise they would be considered defeated and would go off joining other factions. It's a cool concept to think about, but for the time and effort involved I don't think I could crank out the proper modifications, tested and all, to make such a thing possible. It might be possible to spawn them like bandits, but assuming that these knights you have in mind would be unique NPCs that could lead to numerous problems, such as possible duplication of hero characters and so forth. I'll keep this in the back of my head, though, since it's a romantic concept, and we'll see if time permits that kind of modification for this update, which I'd like to have finished with some time before Warband is released, blowing everything away.

Finally, having one guy who rolls in by himself and starts wiping stuff out is a very theatric idea, but the game isn't really equipped to handle something like that at the moment. Second he runs into a major army, whether he's level 50 or 500 (Which would be ridiculous) sheer numbers in the automatic battle simulation would stop him, unless the player is, by any chance, able to see this battle as it starts and intervene. And setting up some code to have him automatically wipe out major armies would simply ruin things. This does, however, sound like a fair idea for a quest NPC that the player could choose to assist in some way. Any ideas in that direction?


To triptick and DrDoom151:

Currently I'm toying around with different forms of kingdom management. I think having some means of collecting taxes without having to visit ludicrously out-of-the-way villages like Aldelen, Epesche, Veidar and Peshmi just to collect taxes. I owned all of these before, and probably got around to stopping there three times per game. Fief management should also be less cumbersome, and there should be more benefit to owning a castle, beyond being forced to defend it with little reward. As Native stands, you're better off just owning a village. Management issues aren't the focus of this mod, but they should be integrated so that the player can focus on what is the focus - the wide and creative mix of troops and equipment coupled with with advanced options in combat.


To Bernhardt:

Haha, you posted in the middle of me typing up this horribly all-encompassing reply. Thanks for the compliments. I had a lot of fun adding to the Nord tree. Producing knighthood orders sort of reminds me of an idea I had about getting lords to get companions like the player does. It reminds me of this, because I don't very much like the way the player gets all these abilities to which NPC lords have no access. If this would be something I could allow other lords to do as well, without too much trouble, I'd certainly implement it. There's a big difference between running into an army of regulars, then hitting a wave of elite guards, each of which has his own character. I'll keep this in mind and see what I can do with it.


Any more thoughts/opinions, totally welcome. I'm glad everyone likes how I'm considering all ideas. Just seems to me that that's what Mount&Blade is all about.

Bernhardt

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #83 on: July 08, 2009, 12:44:50 AM »
Oh! so you actually wan't to make things harder and even for the Lords  :twisted: sounds fun!

Well you could try to rework the King-Lord thing allowing lords to have vassals of their own, like the player can hire companions.

The lords could challenge you to duels if there is a certain amount of hatred towards you and are in the same faction or have enough renown and from another faction (chivalrous stuff). A player shouldn't be able to challenge a Lord that has more renown, but the lord might use some sort of champion to deal with you since yer inferior to him in renown.

PS: I have heard of quick replies but this was awesome LOL :D

triptick

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #84 on: July 08, 2009, 02:18:41 AM »
yea and i always liked to creat my own rebel team and hire lords to my side and overthrow the majority

Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2009, 03:14:28 AM »
Don't worry triptick, rebel quests will still be very much in force here. I plan to add new types of claimant quests, as well.

Bernhardt, I actually thought about the duel challenging deal. Since someone else brought it up, I'm bumping it up on my list of things to add.

So here's what I've been promising for days... don't have a ton of time, but I thought I'd hurry up and put this out there for you:

The Official ASTCM Signatures

(click to show/hide)

Thanks again to my brother for the screenshots (finally)

Later on,
Johnny
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 03:26:03 AM by Johnny Morphine »

weim18

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2009, 05:51:02 AM »
Hey Johnny, glad you liked my post, hopefully it was helpful for at least a few ideas for you.

Can't wait to see the Kingdom of Laerte . . . my guess is they will be visually stunning.  I'm really excited that this faction has some strong Greek influences.

I wasn't sure if the "Band of Warriors/Old Knights" concept was even possible.  However, the discussion that you and Bernhardt were having was interesting to me . . .  the ideas of knighthoods, brotherhoods, or the ability of a Lord from a rival faction being able to have his own NPC heros.  If the "Band of Warriors" idea would be too hard to mod, would it be a possibility for these NPC heros to have a variety of unique armor sets?  That way if you defeat one in battle they might drop the unique armor so you could use it in your party or you might even be able to persuade them to join forces with you.  This would flood the game with tons of unique items/banners/colors.  Let me know what you think.

Lastly, sorry I wasn't clear about the Viking/Warlord concept.  He would have his own large invading army (like the Black Knights in Native Expansion mod), however, this Warlord would simply be a very strong general/lord . . . having the highest attributes in the game and being a killing machine on the battlefield.  I wasn't thinking of him fighting 300 guys all by himself . . . my fault for not being clear on that.

The new signatures look great.  Talk to you soon Johnny

Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2009, 03:35:01 PM »
How does this sound to you...

There are a number of "champion mercenaries" (which I'm calling so now, for lack of any better term at the moment), which function as hero characters and will most likely persist through the entire game, in full view of the player. Maybe even whomping on Dranton in a tournament or two (by the way, I am totally fixing tournaments so you get a melee weapon if you're ranged - arrows as the only weapon is shyte). These mercs will each be unique, and will work for any lord, occasionally offering their services to the player. They are high-level troops whose equipment cannot be modified like normal heroes, though they can be leveled up as normal. In order for a player to hire one of these troops, he must be captured and spoken to, or met in a town, then be paid an amount of cash (which will be a lot) for a starting bonus after being persuaded by the player. Whether or not he or she joins will be a factor of the player's persuasive ability, past relations, and how much the player's willing to shell out. These freelancers will leave the player's party, however, at the slightest inclination, or until some contract expires, then go seek work with other lords. How does that sound for an idea?

And concerning your Warlord concept, Weim18, I'm starting to like the idea. Might actually be fun to program, if I have the time. This would be something that happens every year or two of gametime - suddenly Beowurg the Bombastic (or whatever - that was the name of an old Nord test character of mine) from the native Nord country shows up with his army to attempt another takeover. He'll continue to fight until defeated. During this time, however, the player can decide to join up with him, working with him as if he were a normal king. That might be doable, presuming I can sufficiently test the mod to work out all the kinks.

Bernhardt

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2009, 04:55:13 PM »
Well if you need a nice list of names for NPC character I can help  :)


triptick: I agree with you, that's the most fun way to win.

weim18: Thanks for liking the idea, but I don't think you should be able to get so many unique items from those characters or it would become the item hunting game more or less, rather give them some unique equipment that makes the NPC remarkable and not easy to forget like most lords. At least I would remember a lord/heroe with a particular heavy hitting two-handed sword or a particular archer or crossbow sniper lord/hero:evil: just to say some examples.

And if you are going for the duel thing just make it so the player cannot challenge anyone with more renown then he has and the king could have a ubber champion to fight in his stead that could be a NPC heroe that is unique to each King.

Another idea  :) change the name of the forest fuckers LOL it's funny that's all just say forest thief's, pillagers or plunderers just as an example. Mercenary champions could be switched to a different name according to the place the NPC comes from, like a nord npc could be called Sklaveritter (master swordsman), spearsman of the gale, etc...


Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #89 on: July 09, 2009, 12:12:37 AM »
In the update I plan on basing all the new names on historical, literary, or at least mythological precedent (as with the future Laerteans, particularly, but also so with the other two new factions I have planned). Forest ****** is a funny name, but then again, when you think about it, so is Sword Sister. Which is why I added the Crossbow Bitch as an alternative upgrade.

In order to challenge anyone to a duel, certain conditions would have to be met. Otherwise the player could just run around dueling everyone. Diplomatically a duel can be useful, and it can also be a tool for attaining more renown. But I don't want to see it coming up as an extra option every time you talk to a lord, either. I'll have to think about this, because I don't want it to be overbearing on the intended theme of this mod. But put into context, and made interesting in other ways (such as, if you challenge a lord while he waits at his castle, you can have an honor duel on the battlements), it could prove to be a valuable asset.

That being said, I'd make sure there are real consequences for challenging someone and for being challenged, and your response to challenges. Relations will be affected with lords and kingdoms. Different lords should respond in different ways to being challenged, etc. I'll keep thinking about this as I piece things together. I am certainly liking the idea of duels as a political weapon.