Poll

Just for the hell of it: Which of the new factions are you most looking forward to seeing? (see the list, now in the original post)

Laertean Empire
19 (12.4%)
Sphere of Azathoth
14 (9.2%)
Kingdom of Segimer
9 (5.9%)
Abydan Empire
8 (5.2%)
Decimus Peregrinus
23 (15%)
Kingdom of Asgard
48 (31.4%)
Shumisen Empire
16 (10.5%)
Satyrnian Confederation
16 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 152

Author Topic: Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players  (Read 42361 times)

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weim18

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #90 on: July 09, 2009, 06:46:17 AM »
How does this sound to you...

There are a number of "champion mercenaries" (which I'm calling so now, for lack of any better term at the moment), which function as hero characters and will most likely persist through the entire game, in full view of the player. Maybe even whomping on Dranton in a tournament or two (by the way, I am totally fixing tournaments so you get a melee weapon if you're ranged - arrows as the only weapon is shyte). These mercs will each be unique, and will work for any lord, occasionally offering their services to the player. They are high-level troops whose equipment cannot be modified like normal heroes, though they can be leveled up as normal. In order for a player to hire one of these troops, he must be captured and spoken to, or met in a town, then be paid an amount of cash (which will be a lot) for a starting bonus after being persuaded by the player. Whether or not he or she joins will be a factor of the player's persuasive ability, past relations, and how much the player's willing to shell out. These freelancers will leave the player's party, however, at the slightest inclination, or until some contract expires, then go seek work with other lords. How does that sound for an idea?

And concerning your Warlord concept, Weim18, I'm starting to like the idea. Might actually be fun to program, if I have the time. This would be something that happens every year or two of gametime - suddenly Beowurg the Bombastic (or whatever - that was the name of an old Nord test character of mine) from the native Nord country shows up with his army to attempt another takeover. He'll continue to fight until defeated. During this time, however, the player can decide to join up with him, working with him as if he were a normal king. That might be doable, presuming I can sufficiently test the mod to work out all the kinks.

Johnny, great idea about the "champion mercenaries".  I think this could add a unique element to the gameplay.  How many different "champ mercs" were you thinking about having in game?  Side note on this topic: What about adding the possibility of loyalty to the champ mercs? For example, if you've worked with them and done favorably in battle  . . . leads to a better chance of them joining up with you again (more easily later on).  Also, what about the possibility of them becoming a traitor as the battle starts . . . like an ambush or back stabbing?  Your thoughts? 

Bernhardt: Point well taken about the "unique item hunting game" becoming a problem . . . I could easily see this happening (but one unique item every once in a great while wouldn't be a terrible thing).  I agree that these champion mercs should have both memorable weapons, armor, and helms.  If this does get implemented, hopefully Johnny would be able to have them appear on a regular enough basis so we get to know the character a bit, rather then only seeing them hanging out in the taverns.

Lastly Johnny, do you have an ideas for how many NPC heros will be available to join with in game?  Please tell me that you are still planning on keeping their equipment customizable.

I like what I hear guys.  Keep the ideas flowing!  And again, Johnny thanks for listening to( and possibly implementing) so many ideas from those of us that have no idea how to mod . . . what a dream come true.

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #91 on: July 09, 2009, 10:51:23 AM »
Hey Weim18,
Thanks for your great  ideas mate ;) You have some awesome stuff flowing in your brain there.


Love the Idea of the champ mercs, adds alot of variety to the gameplay which you won't get tired of too soon.


Also, I'd like to see to be able to hire troops in taverns instead of just in the villages.
Not that a townsman/woman will end up in a merc. and leveling should also be a bit slower because it's unbelievable how fast the troops are leveling. I recruit them and within 2 days I end them up from simple recruits with linen clothes and a simple spear in Champs with incredibly heavy armor and a nice heavy weapon.

Only my oppinion and ofcourse it's open for disscussion.


Cheers
DrDoom151


Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #92 on: July 10, 2009, 03:07:09 AM »
Yo, gentlemen. I spent the few hours I had to spare today working out how some of the new weapons will affect different types of mounts. Not something we discussed here, but I wanted to get it underway, seeing as this will be fundamental in future consideration of this mod.

Here's what I have planned:
Explosions/fire (i.e. proximity to the discharge of a large calibre firearm or incendiary device) will cause some mounts to rear and stall, particularly lower breeds of horses. This has been tested and works perfectly.
There will be new types of mounts that will be less affected by these conditions (though Chargers, Warhorses and Hunters should remain largely immune due to their breeding/training). Unfortunately it looks like any new mounts will still sound identical to the old horses. But I'm sure that won't get too much in the way of your enjoyment.

Regular NPC heroes will certainly still be upgraded/equipped as normal. Main reason I wouldn't want the player to be able to adjust equipment of a high-level merc is that it would be just too easy to hire someone, steal his expensive gear, then send him packing. Besides, any self-respecting freelancer would have nothing to do with some pathetic player telling him how to fight. There should probably be at least a dozen of these bastards running around so that they will play a significant part in the game. Relations with them will affect how likely they are to join you. But I should have things set so you can't go around hiring all of them at once.

I do plan to have some unique items available only through looting, but I'm going to make sure they'll show up enough for you to actually loot. This is because there are certain things that just wouldn't get sold in any shop on the corner. Not that these are going to be the game's best items that you'll spend years trying to snag; they're just unique. If you get them, cool. If not, no big loss.

I've been thinking of a few things that have been mentioned here before, along with DrDoom151's suggestion about recruiting from towns (which, incidentally, the original game claims to let you do at one point). A lot of these things can be readily implemented with fief improvements.

One good one for a town would be some sort of recruitment center. I'll think more about the details of this as things progress.

A couple improvements I had in mind for castles include a forge and a tournament square.

The tournament square would allow you to duel lords under certain conditions, and also allow you to set up mini-tournaments every so often, from which you would reap some of the profits on betting/attendance. This would depend on who you can convince to show up for the tournament.
I'm hoping to be able to turn this into a sort of training/testing ground, as well, so you can experiment with different types of troops in your castle/party.

The forge is simple. If you need a weapon upgraded, you supply some raw materials and some cash, give your blacksmith some time to work, and you can turn the chipped great morningstar you looted off some Swadians into a balanced one. Higher upgrades will, of course, cost more in cash and materials.

None of these should be particularly difficult to code. The forge should remove a lot of the item hunting, the tournament square will let you duel with lords, and the recruitment center will make your towns a little more useful as well.

Thoughts?

Oh, and DrDoom151, there is an alternative upgrade path for farmers in the release of the mod you're playing now. I intentionally made it difficult to do, but you can turn farmers into fairly interesting infantry/cavalry more suited to what you'd expect from a farmer. I plan on expanding this further in the next update.

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #93 on: July 10, 2009, 10:45:08 AM »
A great read Johnny,  you keep me burning  :D

I love the idea of adding the forge etc.
As you said, the raw materials. Can you also make sure the tools are actually worth having? because right now, why spend 410 coins on something that just fills your inventory.
What I'd also like this see is that the farmers won't just be able to work as merc for you but also on your plantation(s) in your town/village. Which would also make the option available to buy/hire some more ground near your village (ofcourse hiring is way cheaper but more expensive over time).


Personally I think not just the relation with the faction would make you able to hire those mercs but also your reown and honor would play a great role.

Cheers
DrDoom151
P.S. maybe I'm a bit too greedy :P. But the beautiful weather really gives you ideas. hehe


Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #94 on: July 10, 2009, 01:37:31 PM »
Yes, all aspects of the character's reputation will be taken into account. It's just another line of code and another random number check. The Mercs will be faction-free.

Yeah, right now tools are just for trade. You can make a killing on them like that, but this time around tools and iron will improve your gear. Something different will be needed for bows and stuff. But I also want to make ale good for something. Haha. Like a way to improve morale by sacrificing field speed, or something.

Please explain what you're saying about farmers a little better. I think you lost me on that one. Not sure how that would be much different than building a mill.

Gotta run. Later mates

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #95 on: July 10, 2009, 03:43:57 PM »
Hey,
Okay so, as you said, you can hire farmers/townsmen in the tavern. Lets say the farmer can level up and become (let's say you're swadian) a swadian recruit (just saying as example because I don't want to see it this way) and the townsman can become a merc.
Now, instead of leveling them up, you can go to your village and let the farmer work on your plantations for more income and if you have a town you can have the townsman be a citizen in your town and this will give you more income (from taxes). This will give some more variation.
Ofcourse you can't just let 500 farmers work on one single field so, you have to hire (or buy) a new field for them to work on. This will either generate food/goods or money, all your call.

Cheers
DrDoom151
P.S. All open to discussion


Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #96 on: July 11, 2009, 01:32:56 PM »
Ah, I see what you're saying now. The way you state it, though, it sounds to me more like a way to generate population than a way to generate prosperity. Just ask China - these two are not necessarily the same thing. On top of that it's another way for the player to make money, which would be an option difficult to make available for lords, hence being another overly advantageous option for the player. I'm not discounting the idea entirely, but I don't think it would be something worth the time it would take to program into a mod, especially seeing as it's something far from the intended purpose of this one. Also buying ground for your villages sounds like something that would be a little difficult to code and to have make sense, since that would require changes on the world map, in the village, etc. to really make the effect immersive enough to look solid.

I plan on looking into what exactly it is that lords use to make money (thereby increasing their ability to wage war). I understand that this is reflected by the prosperity of their villages/towns in some way, but I'd like to add other factors as well. If I can find a way to add the same options or a fair equivalency of them for lords, something like this could be worth considering.

Amman de Stazia

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #97 on: July 11, 2009, 02:54:26 PM »

Yeah, right now tools are just for trade. You can make a killing on them like that, but this time around tools and iron will improve your gear. Something different will be needed for bows and stuff. But I also want to make ale good for something. Haha. Like a way to improve morale by sacrificing field speed, or something.
 

Introduce new goods items:  ash and oak to make top-quality arrows, yew or horn for bows...
You could also have the option, when slaughtering looted cows, of getting one unit of 'sinew' instead of two units of meat: Sinew makes bowstrings.
Ale...   improves morale so long as you have OTHER food units.  If you have only ale, or ale and wine, then it should have a massive morale penalty - drinking on empty stomachs....
http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,12250.msg208344.html#msg208344

Family IS more important than Mount and Blade. 

Family D'Stazia.  (A, K and S )

PS - this line plugs TPW - The Peninsular War mod.http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,42454.0.html

Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #98 on: July 12, 2009, 04:20:01 AM »
Introduce new goods items:  ash and oak to make top-quality arrows, yew or horn for bows...
You could also have the option, when slaughtering looted cows, of getting one unit of 'sinew' instead of two units of meat: Sinew makes bowstrings.
Ale...   improves morale so long as you have OTHER food units.  If you have only ale, or ale and wine, then it should have a massive morale penalty - drinking on empty stomachs....

Nice idea about sinew. I was wondering how to handle that part of the bow. I was sure I'd have to add items for wood. I'm going to have to look into the way the game stores the original faction ID of each castle, if even it does, because I'd like castles from each faction to have different specialties for forges. Vaegirs would be great with bows. Khergits would have something to do with horses and bows. Laerteans would have supreme skill in enhancing firearms. Stuff along that line.

And I agree, Ale alone can't keep a whole party happy. Although it does a good job keeping me happy. I can live for days on ale alone (though I prefer lager). Speaking of alcohol, I've got some whiskey I should be drinking. Oughtta add that to the list.

Other non-combat items I plan to introduce include a few other commodities (some other reasons to visit the new factions) as well as new books. First on my list will be two books that, upon reading, will increase your shield skill and your riding, respectively. These are two things which unarguably could be improved by a manual. Other skills will most likely be covered.

I've been thinking that I should reduce the accuracy of bows and crossbows slightly, since it appears I'll be adjusting the power throws of all archers so that they actually have the skills they deserve for their level anyway. For bows, especially, this would add a degree of realism. I'm talking just a handful of points, though.

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #99 on: July 12, 2009, 10:04:07 AM »
Sounds very promising!
How about needing ale and other alcoholic stuff when sieging? Because which army wouldn't be scared of a siege?
And what do you think about a diplomatic hero who can, for a certain amount of payment, neutralize your relationship with a hostile faction?
The Forge could also be needed for making Siege equipment like ladders and siegetowers. From wood obviously.
I know I'm not a person with good ideas but hey, f*ck it  :mrgreen:

Cheers
DrDoom151


Amman de Stazia

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #100 on: July 12, 2009, 03:01:43 PM »
One thing I usually do with modding, is to increase the STR requirements on weapons, but raise the speed in return: If you've got the strength, you should be able to swing a morningstar just as fast as a weaker guy swings a sabre.
http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,12250.msg208344.html#msg208344

Family IS more important than Mount and Blade. 

Family D'Stazia.  (A, K and S )

PS - this line plugs TPW - The Peninsular War mod.http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,42454.0.html

Mccohenster

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #101 on: July 12, 2009, 04:39:01 PM »
Well I just read through the page for this and it looks incredible! A while back you mentioned an invader army with just a few lords, each with a huge army. First of all, this appears to have fallen of the radar screen as I have not seen any more references. Secondly, that format is very similar to the Dark Knight Invasion in Native Expansion. Some one, I forget who exactly(weim18 maybe), suggested some kind of crazy warrior that could single handily  destroy an army. Perhaps he could lead some kind of Viking invasion/ second wave of Nords.

Also one thing that I noticed. It's really not a big deal but the Rhodok phalanx appears to have those small steel shields. I know that the Greeks used round shields (and so did the Danes/ Saxons in their shield wall) but they were significantly bigger. If no one else is bothered by charging cavalry being stopped by a something the size of a sled than ignore this...

A final thought, Bernhardt suggested a brotherhood type thing and I want to say that would be very cool. I am picturing a small army of a dozen or so troops each unique. Perhaps they could be loosely affiliated with a faction and would avoid outright fights on their own but occasionally join in with another lord and heavily influence the battle.
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GrandTheftGearsofHalo4

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #102 on: July 12, 2009, 04:41:25 PM »
Good mod.....
I'm waiting for someone to put a joint in as a food source.... Well Not a food source but something that runs out AND raises morale... *Gigglegigglelaughlaugh*

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #103 on: July 12, 2009, 05:40:20 PM »
Some one, I forget who exactly(weim18 maybe), suggested some kind of crazy warrior that could single handily  destroy an army. Perhaps he could lead some kind of Viking invasion/ second wave of Nords.


Can't Remember really, do you mean the Master Mercenaries?
Or do you mean the part where he said he hated it that if your character in native was strong enough it could destroy a whole army?


A final thought, Bernhardt suggested a brotherhood type thing and I want to say that would be very cool. I am picturing a small army of a dozen or so troops each unique. Perhaps they could be loosely affiliated with a faction and would avoid outright fights on their own but occasionally join in with another lord and heavily influence the battle.

I see where you're going, maybe some kind of Assassins Brotherhood? Or would you like to see a brotherhood with heavy armor and weapons?


Good mod.....
I'm waiting for someone to put a joint in as a food source.... Well Not a food source but something that runs out AND raises morale... *Gigglegigglelaughlaugh*

Right.  :|



Cheers
DrDoom151


GrandTheftGearsofHalo4

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #104 on: July 12, 2009, 05:42:09 PM »
I dunno but that'd be funny as hell as a armor. Have a guy with a joint in his mouth in some random mod...