Poll

Just for the hell of it: Which of the new factions are you most looking forward to seeing? (see the list, now in the original post)

Laertean Empire
19 (12.4%)
Sphere of Azathoth
14 (9.2%)
Kingdom of Segimer
9 (5.9%)
Abydan Empire
8 (5.2%)
Decimus Peregrinus
23 (15%)
Kingdom of Asgard
48 (31.4%)
Shumisen Empire
16 (10.5%)
Satyrnian Confederation
16 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 152

Author Topic: Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players  (Read 42361 times)

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Mccohenster

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2009, 10:06:44 PM »
I dunno but that'd be funny as hell as a armor. Have a guy with a joint in his mouth in some random mod...

Lol that would be great, if it is worn the player sees every thing as if he was high, then again that would be very tricky to mod...
Use WinRAR. Also, great mod. Downloading.
Winraw?
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Bernhardt

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #106 on: July 13, 2009, 12:43:04 AM »
Well I don't know if I want to see guys with decent armor and weapons lol, probably avoid them for a while hehehehe...

Well you can just make this knighthood orders, brotherhoods, clansmen, or what ever you wish to call them make them, spawn in certain areas, with the color of a nation they are helping. Sea raiders hitting Vaegirs and if a Nord is fighting a Vaegir or looters they come to aid the Nords, just like a nice walking warband allied to a kingdom.

So you can keep Sea Raiders (change name if you want it will make them more unique with troop tree and all) for Nords. The Black Lion Knightly Order for the Swadian and such kind of things. Just make them recruitable on castles after building some upgrade.

Upgrade could be Knighthood Order "insert name" building for swaidians or Jomsviking Meadhall for Nord.

I agree with you that the joint would be funny, but I hope it just doesn't happen.

How are you going with the lords having heroes and stuff?

Just one more thing... some Nord equipment is not very pretty I don't know why just something feels off.

PS: Best Regards to all.

Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #107 on: July 13, 2009, 03:08:29 PM »
I spent most of yesterday modeling. Texturing isn't as easy as I remember it being back in the days of Quake 2, but it's simple enough. Unfortunately Azathoth armor is going to have to have an exceptionally high poly count due to its complexity (around twice as high as normal items, even despite my best efforts to conserve vertices), but there shouldn't be too many of those guys around at a time so it shouldn't cause too much of a load on your system.

I went from coding to modeling because apparently there's no way to read armor values directly from an item, which means I'll have to create a directory of available armor in a script in order to accurately deliver damage with some of the new weapons I'm introducing. Hence I'm trying to get as much of the new armor finished as possible before I go ahead and make this database. Plus being an artist opposed to a coding is much more fun.

Looks like I got a lot to respond to. Here goes...

drdoom151:
Quote
And what do you think about a diplomatic hero who can, for a certain amount of payment, neutralize your relationship with a hostile faction?
The Forge could also be needed for making Siege equipment like ladders and siegetowers. From wood obviously.

Since you can already pay off lords for peace, that's not so radical of an idea. I'm planning on adding more diplomatic options, such as duels, prisoner exchanges (more involved than the quest you get from lords in Native), and my favorite, kidnapping.
I'd hate to add requirements to building siege equipment. Aren't siege towers tedious enough already? I have been thinking a little about different types of siege strategies to be employed by the player, however. So right now that's in the phase of "question: how much am I willing to code to add this type of crap to the game?"

Amman de Stazia:
Quote
One thing I usually do with modding, is to increase the STR requirements on weapons, but raise the speed in return: If you've got the strength, you should be able to swing a morningstar just as fast as a weaker guy swings a sabre.
Since weapon master/proficiencies already cover this, I don't think that would be too big of an improvement, though it would be a realistic one. One of my friends used to be a professional street fighter (not the game) who could kick your ass with anything from a toothpick to a cinder block, and that came from real-world experience, not his size. But a certain blacksmith, who was credited with having made a twelve-foot broadsword for a client, told me, "If you're a big enough guy you can beat the hell out of a ninja as long as your sword is bigger than his," or something like that anyway. He phrased it better. I do like the idea so I'll keep that in mind. Since a wimp can still swing a morningstar, pathetically slow as that might be, I'd rather not bar him from it. If possible I may add a speed multiplier based on strength to the speed of a weapon. I'm using a strength multiplier on certain effects, and it works fine, but I'm not sure how I could code an actual attack speed bonus based on strength. Eh, I'll keep thinking about it.

Mccohenster:
Quote
Also one thing that I noticed. It's really not a big deal but the Rhodok phalanx appears to have those small steel shields. I know that the Greeks used round shields (and so did the Danes/ Saxons in their shield wall) but they were significantly bigger. If no one else is bothered by charging cavalry being stopped by a something the size of a sled than ignore this...

I know what you're saying. I thought about giving them huscarls' shields but they didn't seem to give them the visual presence i envisioned for them on the battlefield. Now that I'm modelling I have new shields in store for them. The game certainly needs a larger variety of steel shields to begin with. Also the Laerteans will probably have a competing Phalanx unit of their own style, as well.

Quote
A final thought, Bernhardt suggested a brotherhood type thing and I want to say that would be very cool. I am picturing a small army of a dozen or so troops each unique. Perhaps they could be loosely affiliated with a faction and would avoid outright fights on their own but occasionally join in with another lord and heavily influence the battle.

I'm considering something similar to this for certain factions with lower numbers of lords.

GrandTheftGearsofHalo4:
Quote
I dunno but that'd be funny as hell as a armor. Have a guy with a joint in his mouth in some random mod...

Though this wouldn't be a freely equippable item since mouths are at different heights for different faces, a few select NPCs will be seen with cigars or pipes. It will add +1 to head armor, just for shits and giggles.
And everyone knows weed would decimate your troops' food supply. Not a good consumable item!!

Bernhardt:
Quote
Well you can just make this knighthood orders, brotherhoods, clansmen, or what ever you wish to call them make them, spawn in certain areas, with the color of a nation they are helping. Sea raiders hitting Vaegirs and if a Nord is fighting a Vaegir or looters they come to aid the Nords, just like a nice walking warband allied to a kingdom.

So you can keep Sea Raiders (change name if you want it will make them more unique with troop tree and all) for Nords. The Black Lion Knightly Order for the Swadian and such kind of things. Just make them recruitable on castles after building some upgrade.

This is very similar to what I was thinking. To my understanding the number of factions is limited by the game itself, and each one of these pseudo-bandit groups would require its own faction, so I'm going to limit it to just a few types. One is well-planned in structure already, and it will attack everything but its parent faction, and will help them and receive assistance from them in return.
I don't plan on outrightly replacing or eliminating anything from Native.

Quote
How are you going with the lords having heroes and stuff?

I haven't looked too deeply into it, but heroes should be able to join NPC parties without a hitch. This is near the top of my list.

Quote
Just one more thing... some Nord equipment is not very pretty I don't know why just something feels off.

What? Vikings are supposed to be messy. Anyway, armor is extremely quick for me to make well. All the new Nord units I designed will have different equipment. I'm hesitant to change the actualy appearance of Native troops since they all have developed such memorable qualities for me, but I will probably add to their equipment list to give some troops a little more variety, a quality Huscarls could certainly use.


That's everyone, I think. I'm going to add 1 to my head armor for 5 minutes by smoking a cigarette, then it's back to modeling.

weim18

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2009, 02:07:24 AM »
Well I just read through the page for this and it looks incredible! A while back you mentioned an invader army with just a few lords, each with a huge army. First of all, this appears to have fallen of the radar screen as I have not seen any more references. Secondly, that format is very similar to the Dark Knight Invasion in Native Expansion. Some one, I forget who exactly(weim18 maybe), suggested some kind of crazy warrior that could single handily  destroy an army. Perhaps he could lead some kind of Viking invasion/ second wave of Nords.

Also one thing that I noticed. It's really not a big deal but the Rhodok phalanx appears to have those small steel shields. I know that the Greeks used round shields (and so did the Danes/ Saxons in their shield wall) but they were significantly bigger. If no one else is bothered by charging cavalry being stopped by a something the size of a sled than ignore this...

A final thought, Bernhardt suggested a brotherhood type thing and I want to say that would be very cool. I am picturing a small army of a dozen or so troops each unique. Perhaps they could be loosely affiliated with a faction and would avoid outright fights on their own but occasionally join in with another lord and heavily influence the battle.

Mccohenster:
 I'm glad to see you have taken interest in this mod . . . I believe Johnny is going to make a pretty kickass finished project.   We had discussed the concept of a possible Viking Warlord entering the game with an invading army . . . and you are spot on . . . I did describe this as being similar to the Dark/Black Knight Invasion from the Native Expansion Mod.  This was Johnny's last comment on the topic:

"And concerning your Warlord concept, Weim18, I'm starting to like the idea. Might actually be fun to program, if I have the time. This would be something that happens every year or two of gametime - suddenly Beowurg the Bombastic (or whatever - that was the name of an old Nord test character of mine) from the native Nord country shows up with his army to attempt another takeover. He'll continue to fight until defeated. During this time, however, the player can decide to join up with him, working with him as if he were a normal king. That might be doable, presuming I can sufficiently test the mod to work out all the kinks.

Again, my basic vision would be a character that had the highest attributes in the game (greater then any other existing lord/hero/king), flooding the land with his army, with the intimidating look of an ultimate viking warrior.  Lets all just keep our fingers crossed that Johnny wants to or has time to  implement this concept into his mod.

Welcome to the thread mate!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 02:09:27 AM by weim18 »

weim18

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2009, 02:32:48 AM »
I'll be the guy to ask it.  Johnny, any chance you can bless us with a screenshot of some of the new armor you've been working on? Or even some concept art? I know you probably won't want to give too much away, but damn I got pumped when I heard you were jumping into your own item creations.  Maybe just a small teaser/spoiler.

Also, I was going to ask you a while back if there is a way to make helmets that you can put the face shield up or down?  Maybe a player could buy/equip himself with a basic, open faced helmet (in helmet slot) . . .  then buy a face plate that would sit over the top or in front of the helmet.  The face shield could be stored in the equipment slot where a normal shield would go . . . thus adding protection even though the character could no longer use an arm shield in the equipment slot.  Sorry if this is confusing . . . let me know if you need a better explanation.  I have been following a thread that was going to release an armor pack for modders to use in the near future.  I had already had this face shield concept in my head and then I saw a picture posted on the thread (example: the two helmets next to each other - 3RD picture down).  I'll post the link here:

http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,35443.0.html


It may be just two different helmets, but they both look sweet (would be awesome to see something similar in ASTCM  :D).  However, they whole face shield idea in the arm shield slot would maybe be even better.  Your thoughts?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 02:29:36 PM by weim18 »

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2009, 04:48:45 AM »
Also, I was going to ask you a while back if there is a way to make helmets that you can put the face shield up or down?  Maybe a player could buy/equip himself with a basic, open faced helmet (in helmet slot) . . .  then buy a face plate that would sit over the top or in front of the helmet.  The face shield could be stored in the equipment slot where a normal shield would go . . . thus adding protection even though the character could no longer use an arm shield in the equipment slot. 

Mmmm... I get a vague idea of what you're saying, and I love the Idea! That would also add some more variety to the looks of lords and also another purpose of the forge.
Maybe (just example) you could buy a faceplate for 4000 coins or bring 2 Iron and 2000 coins.

I'm also pretty sure Johnny might want to release some Screenshots, it's always good to have some eyecandy!


drdoom151:
Quote
And what do you think about a diplomatic hero who can, for a certain amount of payment, neutralize your relationship with a hostile faction?
The Forge could also be needed for making Siege equipment like ladders and siegetowers. From wood obviously.

Since you can already pay off lords for peace, that's not so radical of an idea. I'm planning on adding more diplomatic options, such as duels, prisoner exchanges (more involved than the quest you get from lords in Native), and my favorite, kidnapping.
I'd hate to add requirements to building siege equipment. Aren't siege towers tedious enough already? I have been thinking a little about different types of siege strategies to be employed by the player, however. So right now that's in the phase of "question: how much am I willing to code to add this type of crap to the game?"


I shall shut up now. ;)

Also Johnny, will there be any added option(s) for the player to do in his village/town/castle?


Cheers
DrDoom151


Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #111 on: July 15, 2009, 04:45:25 PM »
Yo, everyone. Still modeling. I'm on the finishing end of what's going to be the most complicated single model I've ever completed, and will probably be the most complicated item in the game. I'll post some screenshots once I get a video card so you can appreciate all the inordinate amount of hours I've been putting into the specular maps of these items. I assure you, you'll not be seeing anything that looks like plastic storm trooper armor in this update.

And if I can't find a good enough video card for my somewhat outdated PCI Express slot soon enough (unfortunately I built this computer to write music, not play games), I'll be sure to get something out there for you to keep you interested in the meantime.

Quote
Also, I was going to ask you a while back if there is a way to make helmets that you can put the face shield up or down?  Maybe a player could buy/equip himself with a basic, open faced helmet (in helmet slot) . . .  then buy a face plate that would sit over the top or in front of the helmet.  The face shield could be stored in the equipment slot where a normal shield would go . . . thus adding protection even though the character could no longer use an arm shield in the equipment slot.

Weim18, though I like the idea of helmets that can change state, there are a few things working against the idea. Mainly, there is no way that I know of for an item's model to change, which would be required to raise/lower the face shield. Without heavy coding and a lot of research I don't think that can be done. You might think that there are animations for the helmet that could be brought into play, but helmets don't get animated.

The helmet on the link you sent me was actually two different helmets. When doing two versions of the same helmet, the second one is very easy to model, so I was planning on doing something like that for a number of helms to help match peoples' tastes. Unfortunately that's probably the best I can do for you at this point.

Since you like the idea of face shield state, I'll be sure make a good bit of helmets that have different versions with/without a face shield applied. This would actually work well in-game to add subtle variety to the game's armies as well, without too much additional effort on my part.

Keep throwing ideas at me - we've got something good going here.

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2009, 06:36:23 AM »
Will there be any new features regarding town development?
As right now you can't do much in your town and lords barely come visit. Will you get discount at the forge in your town?
And since you added the forge in the town, will there be any new stuff in the villages?

Just curiosity :P

Cheers
DrDoom151


Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2009, 01:49:04 PM »
I am totally adding new stuff to the villages. What, I'm not sure. Something that really adds to the game. Throw some ideas at me.

We already talked a little about town improvements. I'll hopefully be coming up with more though. The improvement of the "forge," as I intended, was for castles only, since normally castles are a little worthless. I don't think there will be stuff to buy there, but rather it will be a place to improve the armament you already have.

I think it would be cool to add different types of fortifications to your fiefs as well, but I'm not sure yet how that would work.

Time for some sleep

Ku Aborough

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2009, 02:14:47 PM »
Ok, hi there new Mod... :)

I'm interested, BUT i need a little feedback 1st... I like playing native, I've enjoyed the Native Expansion mod a few times over, currently playing DBV hybrid (which I'm sad to say I'm slowly loosing interest in...)

Is this mod worth the download?

I'm sure some of you that play it have opinions by now. Gimme the five by five and I'll judge if i should get this...

positive and negative input greatly welcomed!
   

Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2009, 09:15:37 PM »
Well, I'll give you my two cents. I've been waiting for someone to ask this actually, but I think it's more the place of the other players on this thread to give feedback rather than the guy who designed this thing. In any event, here's my pitch:

This mod is specifically designed for people who have spent months playing Native and loved it. At this point they should be thinking that there are certain, very simple gaps in Native that they wish had been filled, or they're thinking that they wish they'd had the freedom to play the game more in a manner suitable to their style but felt prohibited and forced into expected strategies by Native's somewhat limited and redundant set of equipment and soldiers. This mod seeks above all things to fill in those gaps.

And that's really what this thread has become - a forum in which veteran players send me their feedback and let me know what other things I should be adding as in-game features. My philosophy behind the design is that the player should be given more options to play the way he wants without compromising the real challenges in the game, and adding more when fitting.

That's the short version. Everyone else feel free to chime in.

Ku Aborough

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #116 on: July 17, 2009, 11:12:40 PM »
Thanks for a good response, and heck, just because you seem intelligent and generally nice. I'm gonna give this one a shot... what's the worst that can happen? I'll D-L it when I'm on my main rig (sat in bed on laptop a,t,m)

I certainly would enjoy a 'more expansive' version of Native, hence Why I got hold of 'Native Expansion'.

Thanks again, I'll pop back in after I've given the mod a good and thorough seeing to.


Edit:-
Quick note:

ok just had a brief go, new game etc etc... had a couple fights.

I've noted that the longbow (22 damage) can be used on horseback... I'm not a stickler for "Über realism above all else" but the long bow should really be kept for foot troops only IMHO. a 6 foot tall bow is a tricky beast to handle, and probably not even possible from horseback excepting for some kind of archery-god.

Just my preference (or perhaps I've picked up on an oversight/mistake) but thought I'd point it out.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 12:51:52 AM by Ku Aborough »
   

weim18

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2009, 02:13:12 AM »
Thanks for a good response, and heck, just because you seem intelligent and generally nice. I'm gonna give this one a shot... what's the worst that can happen? I'll D-L it when I'm on my main rig (sat in bed on laptop a,t,m)

I certainly would enjoy a 'more expansive' version of Native, hence Why I got hold of 'Native Expansion'.

Thanks again, I'll pop back in after I've given the mod a good and thorough seeing to.


Edit:-
Quick note:

ok just had a brief go, new game etc etc... had a couple fights.

I've noted that the longbow (22 damage) can be used on horseback... I'm not a stickler for "Über realism above all else" but the long bow should really be kept for foot troops only IMHO. a 6 foot tall bow is a tricky beast to handle, and probably not even possible from horseback excepting for some kind of archery-god.

Just my preference (or perhaps I've picked up on an oversight/mistake) but thought I'd point it out.


Hey good to see your interest in this mod.  Johnny's explanation could not have been more spot on.  This mod does fill in many of the gaps and adds more challenge.  However, it is still a work in progress, with new options coming soon.  The best part is . . . is that Johnny is letting people throw new ideas at him and he seriously considers implementing them into the mod.  He gives you a straight forward answer if he thinks it can or cannot be added.  He has also opened up the option for players to request to be MADE as a Lord INGAME (hopefully I'll even make the cut).  If you have some time, read through the entire thread and you'll see what I've been talking about . . . pretty kickass if you ask me.  He's making this mod for fans of both native gameplay and mount and blade itself.  He has been great at fielding requests for both armor concepts and gameplay ideas.  I myself am a bit of an armor/helmet whore and have been flooding him with probably too many requests . . . but like I said . . . he's doing one hell of a job making the mod for the fans of the game.  Try throwing a request his way and you might even see it in game.  I can't wait to see the final project.  Keep up the excellent work Johnny!  More ideas to come,

Cheers mate   

Johnny Morphine

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #118 on: July 18, 2009, 02:39:32 AM »
Hey good to see your interest in this mod.  Johnny's explanation could not have been more spot on.  This mod does fill in many of the gaps and adds more challenge.  However, it is still a work in progress, with new options coming soon.  The best part is . . . is that Johnny is letting people throw new ideas at him and he seriously considers implementing them into the mod.  He gives you a straight forward answer if he thinks it can or cannot be added.  He has also opened up the option for players to request to be MADE as a Lord INGAME (hopefully I'll even make the cut).  If you have some time, read through the entire thread and you'll see what I've been talking about . . . pretty kickass if you ask me.  He's making this mod for fans of both native gameplay and mount and blade itself.  He has been great at fielding requests for both armor concepts and gameplay ideas.  I myself am a bit of an armor/helmet whore and have been flooding him with probably too many requests . . . but like I said . . . he's doing one hell of a job making the mod for the fans of the game.  Try throwing a request his way and you might even see it in game.  I can't wait to see the final project.  Keep up the excellent work Johnny!  More ideas to come,

Thanks for the serious compliments, Weim18. It's always great to hear what you and the others have to say. Don't worry, you're definitely making the cut. Since we keep coming up with more NPC types there will be plenty of space for everyone so far to join as an actor in this mod. If being a lord isn't appealing to someone, then one of those mercenaries or a hero. Personally I think I'll throw myself in as a merc, since Johnny Morphine doesn't sound at all like the name of a lord... haha. Speaking of which, I've been thinking about a way to integrate the stories behind the new factions and NPCs into the update. Any thoughts on how to do that? I was thinking either readable books similar to Neverwinter Nights, or just occasional tidbits from townspeople or other NPCs.

Edit:-
Quick note:

ok just had a brief go, new game etc etc... had a couple fights.

I've noted that the longbow (22 damage) can be used on horseback... I'm not a stickler for "Über realism above all else" but the long bow should really be kept for foot troops only IMHO. a 6 foot tall bow is a tricky beast to handle, and probably not even possible from horseback excepting for some kind of archery-god.

Just my preference (or perhaps I've picked up on an oversight/mistake) but thought I'd point it out.


Actually I agree with you completely. In original Native the longbow is usable from horseback, and in this first release I stayed as conservative as possible with changing anything that had its roots in the original game, except where a few glaring mistakes were evident. This time around I'm going to play things a little differently. Aside from fixing the skill points of the original troops (most important), I plan on having all of the weapons make a little more sense with their abilities. Here's some of what I've considered so far:

1. Yes, not all bows should be usable from horseback. I'd like to add a yabusame bow to help balance this, so a bigger bow could still be used, as long as it's the right kind.

2. Accuracy will be adjusted to be more reflective of reality. In Native, accuracy really has no purpose - it's 99 for every ranged weapon in the game. I plan on allowing this to deviate slightly, especially seeing that the archers currently in-game will be getting more power draw when I give them the skill points they ought to have for their level.

3. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to swing a pitch fork, boar spear, etc. It might not be the best decision, but there's no god or law of physics stating that these weapons can only be thrusted, especially since thrust-only polearms are more useless than a pelvic thrust at close range.

I could go on, but I've got to get ready for work. I think you get the idea though.
Thanks for downloading, by the way. Hope you enjoy it!

drdoom151

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Re: NEW Advanced Soldier Tree / Commander Mod for Veteran Players
« Reply #119 on: July 18, 2009, 05:15:18 AM »
Glad to see more people are getting interested in the mod, as well as giving their own opinions about it.
Seeing all this commentary, I can't wait to be at home again and playing this mod again  :mrgreen: as right now, I'm pretty useless ;)

Have you thought of changing the name of the mod? Because I believe the name really is something basic and good if you want to start out small, but this seems to get really big.

Cheers
DrDoom151