Consolidated Brainstorm list for Future SoD Versions

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The Conspirator said:
  Training is unrealistically fast itself. If both realism and acceptable speed is wanted, maybe such a model can be implemented:
  Exchange troops with ones who are of the next tier if your higher level troops have a high enough total training skill and gained enough experience. That would convince the traders (ransom brokers or a newer class) that their troops wouldn't be wasted on you. Also, to not put them in a deficit, you should pay them some denars.
  Also, make lords do the same and make their upgrading speed based on their skill for balance.

Training time was increased by increasing the level of the * troop to the same level as the upgrade.  This is logical, makes the * troop better in combat (although without new gear), and increaes training time.  I do not think training will be realistic but this is a good start.  Do you really want to wait a few years before your troops gain one level?  I mean the Legion would be there by then. 

Its a game and game play > realism but the training time was increased and we will use that as a starting point.  If after many people are playing and it is not enough, we can tweak again but I do not want to do to much at once. 
 
Cyclohexane said:
The Conspirator said:
  Training is unrealistically fast itself. If both realism and acceptable speed is wanted, maybe such a model can be implemented:
  Exchange troops with ones who are of the next tier if your higher level troops have a high enough total training skill and gained enough experience. That would convince the traders (ransom brokers or a newer class) that their troops wouldn't be wasted on you. Also, to not put them in a deficit, you should pay them some denars.
  Also, make lords do the same and make their upgrading speed based on their skill for balance.

Training time was increased by increasing the level of the * troop to the same level as the upgrade.  This is logical, makes the * troop better in combat (although without new gear), and increaes training time.  I do not think training will be realistic but this is a good start.  Do you really want to wait a few years before your troops gain one level?  I mean the Legion would be there by then. 

Its a game and game play > realism but the training time was increased and we will use that as a starting point.  If after many people are playing and it is not enough, we can tweak again but I do not want to do to much at once.
And The Legion will be now really hardcore opponent right Cyclo?  :cool: So even fast training might not help.
 
vonmistont said:
Cyclohexane said:
The Conspirator said:
  Training is unrealistically fast itself. If both realism and acceptable speed is wanted, maybe such a model can be implemented:
  Exchange troops with ones who are of the next tier if your higher level troops have a high enough total training skill and gained enough experience. That would convince the traders (ransom brokers or a newer class) that their troops wouldn't be wasted on you. Also, to not put them in a deficit, you should pay them some denars.
  Also, make lords do the same and make their upgrading speed based on their skill for balance.

Training time was increased by increasing the level of the * troop to the same level as the upgrade.  This is logical, makes the * troop better in combat (although without new gear), and increaes training time.  I do not think training will be realistic but this is a good start.  Do you really want to wait a few years before your troops gain one level?  I mean the Legion would be there by then. 

Its a game and game play > realism but the training time was increased and we will use that as a starting point.  If after many people are playing and it is not enough, we can tweak again but I do not want to do to much at once.
And The Legion will be now really hardcore opponent right Cyclo?  :cool: So even fast training might not help.

The legion will now have a counter unit for everything you throw at them (ranged and melle infantry, ranged and mellee cavalry).  Although some of them are mercenaries.  Yea, the Legion uses mercs to!
 
1. Having your men able to use a tourtoise formation would realy help against bows/x-bows.

2. Make horses a more important feature to your character, this is an exerpt from a mod suggestion thread (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,10397.0.html)
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** Horses able to respond to pain
-- Horses have a chance to either rear, stagger and drop on front knees, or both (in order) when hit in the neck, shoulders or chest. Will take a second or two for the rider to get horse back on its feet and continue moving where they wish to go.
(Natural reaction of a horse when experiecing pain in the front is to rear. However, certain hits may stagger the animal, causing it to drop to front knees in shock.)

-- Horses have a chance to leap forward when are hit in the hind-quarters, flanks, sides. Will take a second or two for rider to bring the animal back under control - duration of which can be associated with a character skill.
(Again, natural reaction for a horse is to kick out and leap away from the pain when such occurs from behind. Constant pain in a sensitive area like a flank, will madden a horse into a run)

-- Horses can be knocked down by other mounts being pushed into them from the side, or from the shock of any painful hit inflicted on them. They would take a few seconds to recover back onto their feet, even if the thrown rider can start mounting while the horse is still on the ground
(Nothing much to explain, just plain realism)

---------------------------------
** Personalised horses

-- Horses have their own stats. These are:
  Speed    (involves the moving speed and the turning speed of a horse)
  Strength (involves how much weight a horse can carry before it has an impact on the speed, and how much damage the horse can take)
  Stamina (will explain in detail further on)

-- Players can choose the color of the horse they get (at start) and may choose to train the horse rather than buying a better one now and then.

-- Training a horse will require the player to spend less money than buying a new one, however spending more time, during which the player who doesnt wish to train a horse could get the difference in price by hunting / trading.

-- Depending on the training you do with the horse, the horse's stats increase accordingly.

(training is explained further down in more detail)

---------------------------------
** Horse 'training' and medical aid
I know this was brought up before, however this is my version of it so it will probably be different.

-- Players have the following skill: horse handling. The skill involves the level up till which you are able to 'train' a horse, and up to what extent you are able to cure an injured horse.

-- Horse handling skill increases when you are 'training' or attempting to help an injured horse. Different training is done when you wish to increase different horse stats. The following is how to increase the skills your horse has.
Strenght - Is increased by a 'joulsting tournament' between yourself and an NPC. In order to pass a training 'tier', you will need to defeat (choose a number eg. 10) joulsting opponents. You pay to enter the tournament.
(Since the horses have to carry heavy armor and try to put as much force into the charge as possible, it would be natural that their muscles get stronger with time. Since horses tend to get knocked at times, they become more hardy with an increase in HP)
Speed - Is increased by entering a 'race' against NPC's. Tight corners, turns and U-turns would be included since the NPC opponent would be riding a horse with the similar speed. Once again, payment is made for entering such races.
(Turns will improve maneurability, while racing will improve speed in reality.)
Stamina - Is increased when you do a 'length race' over various obstacles (water / up and down hills) More will be explained regarding stamina further down, but briefly, you will need to control the pace of the horse over certain obsticles in order to beat your NPC opponent. Once again payment is made for entering such races.
(Read further down regarding stamina)
Although people may argue that training the horse as mentioned above has nothing to do with raising horse handling skill in terms of 'medical aid', it actually does since you get to know your horse better in terms of how much the horse can take. In reality, your horse will also end up trusting you more, therefore will be easier to treat even if the injury is more serious. (And it may be overkill if you separate the two skils)

-- Tournaments can be entered only once you have attained a certain 'level' in 'horse handling' skills. You will not be able to go to a tier past your current horse handling skills, thus your horse will not advance past the current stats untill you have got enough skill in horse handling.
You can however enter infinite number of tournaments which are on the same tier, knowing that the horse will not improve if it already has done so in that specific tier. The only thing which will improve is your 'horse handling' stat, which will only THEN allow you to enter higher tiers. You will NOT be able to spam tier after tier since they cost money, which you have to earn outside.

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(EDITED IN - ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS TO HORSE PROGRESSION - 02 APR 2006)
Another way for horse level progression, that could replace the above said tournament system, or act alongside of it, is have a simple EXP > SKILL POINT system (which is currently used by the character), however the stat increase, along with additional commands may cost several levels to raise..

The system will function as follows:

-- For every 1000 points of Experience, the horse gets 1 skill / training point.
-- Players can choose to wait and accumilate that point, or spend the aquired points they may already have on the following suggested (not limited to/exepted from) skills
-- These skills, would have 5 levels each, with each level requiring a certain ammount of skill points

** Skill Levels
Level 1 - The horse knows the command, but is not likely to respond to it yet / may respond differently
Level 2 - The horse roughly knows the command, and what is expected, but still does not always respond correctly
Level 3 - The horse knows the command and what to do relatively well, however can still get distracted and respond incorrectly
Level 4 - The horse nearly always responds to the command, and often the correct way
Level 5 - The horse knows exactly what is expected, and how to respond in a correct way


** Skills (suggested - not limited to or excepted from)

-- Stats (as mentioned above) - 2 points per level up to max of (inf? 10?) levels.
-- Rear - 3 points per level. Lvl 1 - horse will sometimes rear for unknown duration of time.
                                              Lvl 2 - horse will often rear when asked for unknown duration of time.
                                              Lvl 3 - horse will almost always rear, and can turn slowly on his hind legs, and will often return to the ground when the rear
        button is released.
                                              Lvl 4 - horse will always rear, can turn well on hind legs, and can often hop hind legs for a few steps forward.
                                              Lvl 5 - horse will always rear, will turn well on hind legs, can hop forward, and will immedeately return to the ground when the rear button is released.

-- Distance Control - 4 points per level. Lvl 1 - horse will rarely run away on command, and will rarely return on command, acting randomly when not
        mounted.
                                                                Lvl 2 - horse will often run away on command, and sometime return, often following the player during 'returning' and
        often standing still when not mounted.
                                                                Lvl 3 - horse will always run away on command, will always return and will always follow the player when 'returning',
        and will always stand still when just dismounted.
(* this is currently under discussion in other thread(s) )

-- Defence - 3 points per level. Lvl 1 - horse randomly jumps / defends itself when he feels the need to, sometimes abstructing the rider and sometimes
        doing more harm than good.
                                                    Lvl 2 - horse's defending is improved (*.* up to level 5)
                                                    Lvl 5 - horse kicks out, and dodges attacks well, co-ordinating well with the rider.
(*discussed below in other suggestions - I would suppose this would be a passive non-player controlable skill, and will actually use the horse AI)

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-- Players who do not wish to get involved with horse training, and who want to use their horse as a meat shield against incoming missiles or just as a mode of faster transport, can still purchase a faster horse from merchants. It will cost more, but they will have a lot more time on their hands to earn more since they are not training their horse, so it balances out.

-- Players who prefer to roleplay having the same horse from day 1 throught their lives, can do so and will never have to sell their companion since the horse will level up with them.

-- Players who wish to actually go into making gold by training horses, can do so by raising their 'horse handing' skill to a certain extent. They can then buy a low level horse, train it, and sell it for a profit. To achieve this, once the player has reached a certain level of 'horse handling' skill, the trials which are a few levels (eg. 5 levels) below the players 'horse handling' skill become free of charge to enter. Player's 'horse handling' skill however, will not increase in such low trials either.

---------------------------------
** Stamina
This is basically a second bar on the UI for your horse. It does NOT
replace HP. Here is how it works:

-- Stamina bar is divided into 5 levels. (0-1 / 1-2 / 2-3 / 3-4 / 4-5)
Sta 4-5 : Means the horse is fresh.
- Stamina will drain slowly when the horse is galloping.
+ Stamina will regenerate fast when the horse is walking, normal when trotting, slow when cantering.

Sta 3-4 : Means the horse is tired.
- Stamina will drain slowly when the horse is cantering, normal when the horse is galloping.
+ Stamina will regenerate fast when the horse is standing still, normal when walking, slow when trotting.

Sta 2-3 : Means the horse is winded.
- Stamina will drain slowly when horse is trotting, normal when horse is cantering, fast when horse is galloping.
+ Stamina will regenerate normally when horse is standing still, slow when horse is walking.

Sta 1-2 : Means the horse is exhausted, winded, and needs urgent attention.
- Stamina will drain slowly when the horse is walking, normal when horse is trotting, fast when horse is cantering, very fast when horse is galloping.
+ Stamina will regenerate slowly only when the horse is standing still at a rest.

Sta 0-1 : Means you pushed your horse past its limit, and will now have to either ride it to death, or pray that it will recover.
- The horse has a chance of dropping to the ground at any time (random every few seconds). The only way that your horse can survive is if you immedeately dismount and provide medical attention (this is where horse handling skill comes into play) to the horse. If the horse collapses, but is still alive, you can still use the skill to attempt to help the horse, but with less chance of success. Stamina below 1 will drain at a constant pace untill it reaches 0. The horse does not die when it reaches 0, but however it will take longer for you to use your skills to bring stamina back past 1, which means the longer you wait / ride your horse in this condition, the less chance there is your horse is going to make it. Obviously, the higher your horse handling skill, the faster you can regenerate stamina back past 1.

-- This is just something to add on to the realism, any damage the horse takes can take a toll onto the regeneration rate of the horse's stamina. This could simply mean:
HP = 85-100%, REGEN = N/A
HP = 50-85%,  REGEN = -0.5 points
HP = 25-50%,  REGEN = -1    points
HP = 0-25%,    REGEN = -1.5 points

-- Additional calculators could be introduced, such as encumbrance calculator:
Encumbrance = 0-30%,      REGEN =  +1    points
Encumbrance = 30-65%,    REGEN =  +0.5 points
Encumbrance = 65-100%,  REGEN =  0      points
Encumbrance = 100-110%, REGEN = -0.5  points
Encumbrance = 110-120%, REGEN = -1.0  points
(this is providing encumbrance is introduced, which I really support at the moment.)


Ok, I have come to a conclusion of my 'essay', however I probably forgot to add something important so please point out the flaws of my creative doomsday mind. I know this will be too much to impliment even if the creators and customers like it, however there might be a few ideas in there to think about on they journey to perfection in mounted combat.
Personally I would love to see a game which actually gives as much realism and feel to mounted combat as possible, and I think the same goes for a few others ::grin:

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EDIT - 13 APR 2006 Horses no longer disappear when their rider is killed. They run around the map, and have the ability to run off the map where they then disappear. This is a major step forward / improvement (although it would be even better if they didn't disappear alltogether - please state your oppinion / discuss)
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« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 01:14:02 am by Volkier »
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Accumilated list of Discussed Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2006, 08:35:09 am »

    * Quote

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Additional suggestions made by other players (and meself) throughout the post


* Horse skill Horse Temperament : governs how fast you regain control of a horse reacting to pain

* Battle skill Horse Switch : ability to switch horses mid-battle just like weapons from making use of the inventory chest on the battlefield. (Or allowing a 'base camp' with spare horses, guarded by X ammount of troops, which enemies could take over / steal etc.)

* Horse training Making use of already-existant tasks to train horses : example was the current tournament, however I personally think this may clash with the people who don't want horse training

* Horses in battle Don't disappear ::razz:

* Horses in battle Move around when rideless

* Horse breeding Building your own keep / stables : privately owned place to breed / raise / train your own horses.

* Horse skill Ability to equip different armor : As in title, although encumberance ought to be introduced before this is in effect.

* Horse customisation Naming your horse, choosing color of horses

* Horses in battle Active rearing in defence : Horses can be made to rear or just rear by themselves in defence. Anyone that comes too close directly in front would get hit by the hooves, however this should not do initial damage and should only be used as a defencive maneur.

* Horses in battle Physical laws on horses : Horses can be knocked down by another horse charging into the side, rather than both rearing. Removal of over-rearing which currently happens in the most unrealistic circumstanses.

* Horses graphics No bridles on : Horses currently are equipped with a head-collar, not bridle in game. Whereas its not that difficult to ride a horse with head-collar instead of the bridle, I'm pretty sure that bridles would have been used in most battles ::smile:

* Horses graphics Horses lenght + width proportion : Whereas height-wise they seem to be ok (although an extra hand or two wouldn't hurt) horses are not too proportional in their length / width. Obviously different breeds are of different size, however the current body proportion is somewhat doubtful, and an increasement in both length and width seems reasonable ::smile:

- thanks to Milner for creating a comparison pic.

* Horse equipment Armor : Discussed in a few other threads, I'll just dump it here with the rest of the horse suggestions ::smile: In other words, different slots for horses to wear armor, and different armor to equip in those slots.

* Horse equipment Saddles : Saddles would further improve the different playstyle by different players, by contributing to the AC over movement value. For example, a plain cloth saddle would be 0 AC, however since its thin and light, it would provide better control of the horse (in terms of maneurability or riding skill) whilst a heavy jousting wooden saddle, would increase AC, but since its large, bulky and the horse can't really feel the rider, the maneurability (or riding skill) would decrease.

* Horse physics encumberance : This would be really nessesary to balance out most of the above suggestions. Encumberance would basically distinguish the difference between AC and how maneurable / agile the horse (and the human) is. For example, a player who wants to equip really heavy weapons, armor, armor for horse etc. would be a sort of walking tank, but would not be very maneurable with or without the horse. Another player who doesnt wear anything (you know what I mean) and has an un-armored horse, would feel pain alot more, but he, and the horse, would be able to avoid the source of pain in the first place (if both know what they doing ::razz:) This would affect all armor suggestions, all combat abilities (such as rearing) suggestion, all physics suggestions... heck almost all suggestions mentioned ::grin:

* Horse equipment personalised food Separate food box for horses, along with separate food (eg. grain for horse, cookie for j00)

* Horse in battle rider AI Dismounted footmen automatically mount the horse of their fallen foes. (Providing the horses stay after the rider is killed) - Same applies for tournaments (*automatically without being ordered to)

* Horse in battle Kicking out in defence Happens when the horse feels threatened from behind, and/or in some cases of experiencing pain. Knocks down the opponent dealing 0 damage (unless the kick lands in the head and the enemy is not wearing armor) since thats about as much pain as you will feel on short term.
* This can be included in reaction to pain, since a horse may turn on the spot and kick out at somebody attacking the side.. The disadvantage of this can obviously be that the horse will make itself vulnerable from the other side (if surrounded), and rider normally does not have control of :responce(s) to pain:

* Horse's Rider Leaning from saddle Can lean left / right / forward in the saddle (crouch can be forward, 2 additional keys for leaning left right?) to provide extra range, and / or cover / dodge from arrows when no shield equipped.
- If the rider is leaning forward during the charge, the rider is a smaller target for arrows. They would also be able to lean to the left to make their target smaller to cavalry archer's arrows which are shot from the right, and vise versa.
- Rider can lean out of the saddle left / right to increase the range of their swords. Obviously they are more vulnerable to melee from the side they are leaning on. Riders can lean forward to increase the range of their lance, but would not be able to look much to the left / right.
- Riders who are leaning left / right have a chance of being thrown off the horse, should the horse jump/spin in the opposite reaction, in regards to reaction from pain, should that be implimented.

* Horse Care Horseshoes / Blacksmiths Towns would each have a blacksmith. Each Blacksmith would be able to shoe the horse to improve its speed / maneurability etc. Possible advantages would be horse speed, maneurability, lower fall damage. Players would be able to buy more expencive shoes, however all shoes will eventually wear out to the same (basic) level. This would encourage people to re-visit blacksmiths, find a blacksmith who makes higher quality shoes, or simply not care ::grin:

* Horses AI Horses as a separate AI Kiggles explains this quite well in this thread ::smile:
* Horses hit box Damage Horses have unrealistically low hit points


To add to that, I suggest implimenting head, neck, legs hitboxes for horses.

Also, separating the horse and rider hit-boxes, (or an equilavent) as discussed in Tweaking hitboxes thread.

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EDIT - 13 APR 2006 Just a little 'glitch' I would say, units are able to 'punch' a horse to death.[/b]

* Horses hit box Damage cap Suggested a minimal and maximum "cap" on the ammount of damage a horse can take, depending on the damage type and weapon used. Some weapons and damage type such as blunt hits don't do much to horses in reality, and vice versa. The cap is NOT affected by the skill / speed of the character, HOWEVER the higher the skill / speed, the more chance there is for a higher damage score. For example:
- Sword / slashing : Min 3, Max 18 (less than average)
- Sword / stabbing : Min 15, Max 40 (more than average)
- Axe / slashing : Min 10, Max 38
- Spear / stabbing : Min 24, Max 60
- Spear / couched : Min 40, Max 999
- Poleaxe / Stabbing : Min 3, Max 20
- Poleaxe / slashing : Min 3, Max 25
- Poleaxe / couced : Min 40, Max 60 (since poleaxe slips to the side ::razz:)
- Knife / stab : Min 1, Max 15
- Knife / slash : Min 1, Max 10
- Arrow / stab : Min 1, Max 20
- Javelin / stab : Min 10, Max 35
- Throwing knifes : Min 1, Max 10
- Blunt attacks : Min 0, Max 5
- Armor and other attributes can obviously lower the minimal damage, with up to maximum of minus 10 to the damage taken.
Idea behind this, is that a high skill does not guarantee an unrealistic horse kill in a few hits, and an armored charger is not invincible against certain attacks. It also makes spears useful as a weapon for infantry against cavalry, and hitting a horse with a club would not eventually kill it etc. (All numbers are on a rough example basis)

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EDIT - 14 Apr 2006
* Horses movement in battle Reasoned rather than random movement Currently the horses will move around the battlefield when not mounted completely randomly. Whereas it does add to the whole battle effect, it would really enhance the practical part if the direction and movement of the horse had a reason. Proposed suggestions:
  - Horses will attempt to stay close to their master (when dismounted)
  - Horses whose rider has been killed will run away from a large group of people / fighting at random (as is currently the case), and will attempt to follow a general mass (3 or more horses in an area) of cavalry.
  - Horses will not run away, and may walk towards any single unit, if there are no other units / fights around
** This would not apply once/if ever horse training is implimented, therefore is a temporary/permanent suggestion respectively ::smile:

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EDIT - 19 Apr 2006
* Horse control Jumping out of saddle Possibly allow players to jump out of the saddle at any time (whether the horse is moving / standing still). This should be restricted by encumberance for obvious reasons ::smile:

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EDIT - 23 Apr 2006

* Riding Being knocked off the horse This would function as described below:
    *** Restriction of riding skill is removed, meaning a player with any riding skill can ride a horse with any riding skill requirement.
    *** Riding skill still provides a bonus to the speed / maneurability of the horse.
    *** Riding skill now will provide a penalty to the speed / maneurability if the rider's skill is below the horse's requred skill.

Falling off the horse, would be possible if the rider's skill is the same and/or below that of the horse's required skill, and when the player is hit. Simple model:

    *** Rider skill < horse requirement, --> Rider falls off if they take 5-10 damage
    *** Rider skill = horse requirement, --> Rider falls off if they take 25-30 damage
    *** Rider skill > horse requirement, --> Rider falls off if they take 55+ damage

Using this system as an example, a player who has a riding skill of 1, and is riding a charger, would be knocked off easily with most hits. A player who has a riding skill of 3, and is riding a hunter, would take most hits encountered during combat, but would still be knocked off if they are hit hard enough with a heavy axe / headshot. The same player, who would have 4+ riding skill, and riding the same hunter, would stay on throughout almost any hit. However, there is still allways a chance to be knocked off if they are hit for over 55 damage, which would normally mean a direct couched lance from the enemy, or something very hard..

--- side note --- Regular falling off, although still existing in reality, would be a good point of discussion when horses behave realistically - ie. jump backwards / react to pain / defend themselves / throw the rider off-balance etc. -  and once the horse's calmness (as skill) could perhaps be improved on, and eventually which would still occur extremely rare, therefore there does not seem to be any points within discussion regarding that aspect at this time.

* Rider Skill Impact resistance - Each point of this skill gives a 3% chance of resisting the knock-down impact and gives +1 point to how much damage a player needs to take, in order to be knocked off. This would work in par with the above mentioned suggestion.


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EDIT - 09 May 2006
* Horse Breeds Specific breeds to sides (swadians / vaegirs) Proposed specific breeds used only by vaegirs and swadian cavalry. Access to these for players, could be through joining one of the said factions, and achieving a high rank (to recieve such horses), looting after combat (although this would mean a very rare - to probably 0% chance to get any bonus stats, such as heavy or spirited), possibly black market (if such is introduced), or just a rare in regular shops. (eg: swadian courser / vaegir hunter / khergit steppe horse). The horses may differ in an increase in certain stats, and perhaps armor graphics (untill / unless equippable armor is introduced)

* Horse Physics Vulnerability Currently, horses who are riderless, are invulnerable to all friendly melee attacks. It is rumored that this is done, so that the player is able to mount them. Possible suggested solution, is to allow players / npc's to mount enemy horses, and for the horse to change into a 'friendly' unit, only once you are actually on top. (Full discussion regarding this in Killable unridden horses thread...)

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EDIT - 30 May 2006
* Horse skill Obedience Horses respond to a "recall" command, such as whistling - further discussion in the whistle for my horse thread.

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EDIT - 15th June 2006

Some general information, (at the same time possible future ideas) based on spanish riding school, and cavalry battle maneuvers. Need flash to view the clips, however there is a vocal description and explanation of each. Enjoy ::smile:

Levade
Mezair
Courbette
Capriole

Lipizzaner stallions website - The main webpage - a bit of history, however its breed specific website - therefore everything would probably have been done before with other breeds / countries / cavalries. I'm no History freak, but I believe the Greeks had a similar version of all of the above mentioned movements in the early few centuries - however they where not as successful for various reasons ::smile:
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EDIT - 15 Jul 2006
* Rider Skill Fast Dismounting As it stands now, a rider takes about 4 to 5 times longer to dismount, than is required, as well as the horse is required to stand still for this to happen. Perhaps a possible compromise / solution is to allow a player to activate jump right after they pressed the dismount key, which would allow the player to jump from the horse. Likewise, dismounting during the horse's movement in a similar fashion should possibly be allowed.

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EDIT - 06 Aug 2006
* Horses in battle-loss Looting horses Horse should be always looted by the attackers when you are knocked unconcious and loose a battle, (unless possibly the horse has been knocked out as well). This would make sense to the feel of loosing a battle, increase the penalty for loosing, as well as provide further incentives for the player to take on a 'personal' quest to recover their horse (if training is implimented thus making such a loss even more severe) by tracking and killing their attackers.

In an instance whereby the party who have the horse is attacked by another, and loose, the horse is then acquired by the winning party. In an instance whereby the winning party ends it's journey in a town, the horse would remain on one of the merchants.

Possible opportunities for adding on to / expanding this idea:
- horses have a chance to run away (before being looted) by themselves - in which case the player can 'track' down the horse as a single unit (or if captured by an 3rd party)
- horses could possibly acquire training skill allowing them to escape and return to their master (before being looted by the enemy)
- possibly allowing the player to 'steal' the horse back from the merchant or the attackers without engaging in battle.


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EDIT - 07 Aug 2006
* Horse Control Side-stepping (Was a little too obvious, so everyone - myself mainly - forgot about this completely, or rather just put it under generalised 'horse maneurability improvement'.. thanks Smurfy for the reminder.. anyway) Proposed side-stepping movement of the horse, that can be executed at speeds slower than gallop. Requirement could be derived from the rider's skill (eg. riding 5), horse training skill (only if that is introduced) both or none. Current "on foot" strafe left / right keys could possibly be utilized best.

Well i say exerpt, it is the entire thing. These should only be available to the player.

EDIT:
Also scaling down the surgery skill. I besiged Reyvadin 8 times and only got 5 deaths and 100+ wounded wich heal in about 1 day.
 
I know this might sound really ridicoulus as a request but... is there any way you could include a button that switches off the invasio  :wink:? I really enjoy the fights and formations and I absolutely love the kingdom management but the fun for me is a bit spoilt if I more or less always have to be in a hurry as **** loads of troops will come and try to take over what I've built from scratch. I know it is an integral part of your mod but I would really love to enjoy all the stuff with the freedom and time to take over everything bit by bit and expand and built things and not having to worry about the bad guys coming in. So what I'm asking for is a little switch to toggle the stuff on or off or actually an expansion of the time you have for the game, if that is possible, until the nice foreign troops come to raid my villages and rape my peasants  :wink:.
 
hedop said:
I know this might sound really ridicoulus as a request but... is there any way you could include a button that switches off the invasio  :wink:? I really enjoy the fights and formations and I absolutely love the kingdom management but the fun for me is a bit spoilt if I more or less always have to be in a hurry as **** loads of troops will come and try to take over what I've built from scratch. I know it is an integral part of your mod but I would really love to enjoy all the stuff with the freedom and time to take over everything bit by bit and expand and built things and not having to worry about the bad guys coming in. So what I'm asking for is a little switch to toggle the stuff on or off or actually an expansion of the time you have for the game, if that is possible, until the nice foreign troops come to raid my villages and rape my peasants  :wink:.
Menu Camp-> Take other action -> Quick Start -> Consult the Oracle  :roll:

But invasion is not that bad :smile: Sure, there are many of them but when they capture some land they tend to spread their forces.
 
Only in the gold version or can you do that in the latest SOD version that is properly released so 4.1 as well? How do get to Menu Camp etc.? Sorry if the questions are stupid...  :sad:
 
did you ever think about colored influence zone overlays ? ie, zones that define the influence area of kingdoms ? it would make the map more 'real'.

with a wild guess, you can use the spotting range mechanic of the towns/villages for them.
 
A beginning Quest line that leads to you having control of a targeted faction castle. I feel it is difficult and very time consuming to amass enough money to fund a large enough mercenary army to take over your first castle, to finally rebuild your nation. And having this quest line can help make the beginning more fast paced. My idea is...
o First quest involves you arriving on shore and in an encampment. You collect your nation specific armor and have an NPC tell you back story of your nation’s culture. A Noble Unit, acting as a Captain, tells you the specifics of each unit (weaknesses and strengths) and gives you your first quest.
o A few simple yet rewarding quests to help get you started out. The first should be having you go out for supplies which are running short at the encampment so you are given a detachment (50 starting units) and a given amount of gold to purchase supplies (food and armaments.) While the captain stays to gather any more arriving refugees. When you comeback you are given more low-tier units. This encampment also allows you to upgrade infantry and archers only mid-tier though , as armaments are in short supply.
o And the region where you land on are hostile lands plagued by a small bandit faction laying waste to a small group of villages and have ownership of a ruined castle. That you will later on, through a quest, take from their leader. When it is taken the quest line will end with the Captain asking you what is to be done with the leader. Then you choose to execute or release him. Affecting the story later on…

- Intergrate the health system with prosperity in fiefs. I usually find a description of my village saying, “(Name of village) is flourishing,” And then it goes on by saying… “Bodies are littered amongst the streets…” It just doesn't sound right.
- Decrease the effectiveness of Wound Treatment. This would be a better option than lowering the usefulness of surgery. And I feel is more realistic than having a 100 men recover from there wounds after a day…
- Advisors can have more of a role to play. You should enact laws through Advisors (which take a small amount of time as it takes the people throughout your nation to receive the decrees). Instead of enacting laws from your camp…
- Laws should work as a system, where one law enacted opens up exclusive and different options (like a Law-tree?)… Because some laws in reality just don’t coincide with each other. And you have to begin with a new foundation of laws for your nation, which is being rebuilt, then to more complex ones. (Other pre-requisites can be certain buildings [?repealing laws demolishes these buildings?])
- “Unique” advisors/agents (like diplomats, politicians, high priests, spies, assassins, sabotuers,etc) dependant on laws enacted, renown, honor, etc. Ex. If you have high favor with Clergy you can access a temple which you have elect for you a High Priest. Taking certain amount of time to occur. This process affects having the clergy granting you the “Divine Right” of Absolute Monarch.
- These “Unique” advisors have certain influential skills and will also be paid weekly
- This Unique Advisor/Agents may act out certain missions and have a chance to fail and be killed.
- Diplomats on their missions may be protected by powerful escorts/royal guards/holy units (depending on how much you are willing to spend per mission), so they can reach their destination without worrying about bandits. Certain negotiations can allow them immunity from attack by other nations as they go about political business.
- These Unique Advisors/Agents can also help you prevent rebellions, foreign wars, create alliances and engage in foreign negotiations/trade, but they aren’t always successful…. (The Politician’s influential hold is only on the peasants or working classes. Nobles/Clergy influences are excluded from this particular advisor.)
- Relations with the people, nobles, or clergy influence different events. An example would be a certain Lord tries to over throw you and has influence over the people. But say you are an Absolute Monarch temporarily Holy Warriors will arrive 2x faster to uphold your divine right as king. In another scenario Nobles may answer the call for their King… (All these events are affected by relations…)
- New ways to attain skill points… So if your character is more political than a general. You may have instances where you can enter diplomacy using yourself in negotiations. And a certain number of successful negotiations can award an intrigue/administration skill point. Yet make it take a long or have a great amount of difficulty so it won’t be abused in game.
- More commands during the battle. In the Western mod 1866 you can tell your troops to “move here.” It is less time consuming instead of riding around trying to position your archers on higher ground, and is useful if you’re character has an archer oriented play-style or is more diplomat than a warrior-king that charges into the fray.
- New religions/New or Remade Holy Units… Having perhaps a shamanistic or cult base. Not simply having Iron-clad tanks on the battle field like all the religions seem to have too much in common. I would like each one to have their own unique feel. Perhaps ashamanistic one that has a Tribal Warrior (Like the Elephant guard) exceptional in open field combat but weak in siege, or a Unique Battle archer exceptional for siege battles. I feel none of holy units don’t fit well with the décor and battle tactics of let’s say, the Zerrikanian or Villianese.

 
I like your idea, but maybe you could scatter some 4-5 abandoned and/or bandit infested towns, then if you take it, you can get a village right away, but it will only have 50 people their w/ bad health and prosperity... So you can get a fief early on without swearing allegiance. Just an idea.
 
I think the ideas are great and might actually enable a castle build system of more depth. Like if you take the ruinous castle you can start rebuilding walls, towers etc. before you even think about unit buildings and such (bit like Crossroad Keep in Neverwinter Nights 2 if you know what I mean).

Btw.: Still pending question for me even though off topic now, can anybody help me with this:

hedop said:
Only in the gold version or can you do that in the latest SOD version that is properly released so 4.1 as well? How do get to Menu Camp etc.? Sorry if the questions are stupid...  :sad:
 
I'm a little concerned with the recruiting limit in towns, what with the upcoming invasion and all.  In other mods, I'm used to having around 600 troops in my towns.  But recruiting stops after a certain point.  I'd like it to keep going and build up the garrison more.  I know, the population can only support so many troops, but I'm worried about their ability to withstand a siege against the Legion.
 
hedop said:
I think the ideas are great and might actually enable a castle build system of more depth. Like if you take the ruinous castle you can start rebuilding walls, towers etc. before you even think about unit buildings and such (bit like Crossroad Keep in Neverwinter Nights 2 if you know what I mean).

Btw.: Still pending question for me even though off topic now, can anybody help me with this:

hedop said:
Only in the gold version or can you do that in the latest SOD version that is properly released so 4.1 as well? How do get to Menu Camp etc.? Sorry if the questions are stupid...  :sad:

you click the camp option and your there (bottom left corner while on the main map)
 
Cheers but is the Oracle feature only for the Gold Version that's coming out or for the 4.1 as well because I couldn't find it there.
 
hedop said:
Cheers but is the Oracle feature only for the Gold Version that's coming out or for the 4.1 as well because I couldn't find it there.
no its for 4.1 aswell
 
I know this really isn't a major part of gameplay, but more player background choices would be enjoyable. It'd also be nice if you could, instead of waiting for the invasion, build up a fleet of your own, and launch the attack on the Imperium. I t would also be nice if players were given higher skills and more troops at the beggining of the game, I mean it's not like you're some lowly peasant, you were a king after all. maybe think bout implementing some jousting? Plus more strategic options are always nice, like maybe send some troops to raid an enemy camp and steal supplies and money? build forts on the map? fortify castles more for higher advantage? even send assasins at enemy lords/ have them sent at you? Hope my ideas are helpful  :smile:
 
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