Troops

[vonmistont]

Topic to discuss troop trees.

Troop trees brought to You thanks to kennylz pictures.

Few words about new Army Management system:

When you first arrive to Caladria you can recruit only Farmers in Villages, Townsman, Refugees and Manhunters in Towns.

After You give oath to one of the Kings you can recruit normal kingdom troops from Villages.

You can also bribe some bandits to join You.

All thiss new units upgrade as they did before.

When You create own Kingdom villages give You recruit unit called Peasant...

This new unit can be upgraded only to it's experienced version called Peasant*.

you must take this Peasants* to your Town or Castle and talk to Marshal.

If you have required facility in town/castle Marshal will train Peasant* to different troop type based on background choice you made on the beginning of the game.

There are 5 different Background motherlands to chose from:
Empire of Antares
Republic of Marina
Kingdom of Aden
Duchy of Villian
Zerrikanian Sultanate

Each new troop can only be upgraded to it's experienced version called [trOOP NAME]* (i.e. Antarian Paladin*).
This experienced versions don't have better equipement. They may have slightly better skills.

Each experienced version of troop can be upgraded providing You have required facility.

The top tier nobles can also be upgraded to Faith specific Holy Warriors. You can't recruit them. If Faith is strong enough You will get event converting one of your top tier nobles.

Troop Trees:
F for Foot
R for Ranged
C for Cavalry

L for Light
M for Medium
H for Heavy
L M and H just describes Armor. Light can be better than Heavy, it can have better weapons, skills, shield etc.

But You may change those as you like, only upgrade path is coded so you also can change that but I must code it too.

[size=8]Antarian Empire
[/size]
Heavy armored infantry, but not as skilled and with worse weaponry than Marinians. Weak cavalry.
Best Noble units. Noble cavalry slightly worse than Adenian Noble cavalry. Noble foot unmached.

                                                                        COMMONERS
                                                                                PEASANT
                                                               
                                 REGULAR INFANTRY                                              JAVELINMAN
                                                      
        VETERAN INFANTRY                           SCOUT                           TRAINED JAVELINMAN
            
            ELITE INFANTRY                           CAVALRY
   


                                                                              NOBLES
                                                                                   NOBLE
                                                               
                                        GUARD                                                                KNIGHT
                                                      
                                    HONOR GUARD                                                        PALADIN
                                                      


[size=8]Republic of Marina
[/size]
Best Foot soldiers. Not as heavy armored as Antarians but armed with pikes, halberds etc. Ranged units good armored but worse than Villanian Longbowmen. Cavalry almost not existing. Nobles somewhat poor, but Condotieri should be better than Elite Infantry.
                                                                        COMMONERS                                                             NOBLES
                                                                                PEASANT                                                                  MERCENARY
                                                                                                       
                                 CONSCRIPT INFANTRY                                            CROSSBOWMAN                         LANDSKCNEHT
                                                         
        REGULAR INFANTRY                         SCOUT                            TRAINED CROSSBOWMAN                  CONDOTIERI
            
       VETERAN INFANTRY                                                                   ELITE CROSSBOWMAN
                                                     
          ELITE INFANTRY                                                                         SHARPSHOOTER
                                                     





[size=8]Kingdom of Aden
[/size]
Not very special Foot and Ranged. Best heavy cavalry (light Adenian is Medium really). Best noble Heavy Cavalry.

                                                                        COMMONERS                                                             NOBLES
                                                                                PEASANT                                                                     SQUIRE
                                                                                                       
                                 REGULAR INFANTRY                                                   ARCHER                                     KNIGHT
                                                         
        VETERAN INFANTRY                   LIGHT CAVALRY                        VETERAN ARCHER                             MAGNATE
            
            ELITE INFANTRY                     MEDIUM CAVALRY                      ELITE ARCHER
        
                                                          HEAVY CAVALRY
                                               



[size=8]Villianese Duchy
[/size]
Best ranged units. Good and very skilled infantry, but light armored. Cavalry almost not exising. Good noble units. Not as armored as Antarians but as much skilled.

                                                                        COMMONERS
                                                                                PEASANT
                                                               
                                 REGULAR INFANTRY                                              LONGBOWMAN
                                                      
        VETERAN INFANTRY                           SCOUT                           VETERAN LONGBOWMAN
            
            ELITE INFANTRY                                                                     ELITE LONGBOWMAN
                                                     
                                                                                                              SHARPSHOOTER
                                                                                                   


                                                                              NOBLES
                                                                                  NOBLE
                                                               
                                          CHIEF                                                                KNIGHT
                                                      
                                      HIGH CHIEF
                         

[size=8]
Zerrikanian Sultanate
[/size]
Pitable footman. Average Archers. Best light and medium cavalry. Noble Medium cavalry very fast, good armored, fast but somewhat light armored horses.
                                                                        COMMONERS                                                             NOBLES
                                                                                PEASANT                                                                     TIMARIOT
                                                                                                       
                                           MILITIA                                                            ARCHER                                     SIPAHI
                                                         
                INFANTRY                                  SCOUT                               TRAINED ARCHER                             IMMORTAL
            
                                                                  RIDER                                 SHARPSHOOTER
                                                     
                                                          VETERAN RIDER
                                               
                                                            ELITE RIDER
                                               


[size=8]
FAITH TROOPS
[/size]
Top tier noble cavalry might be upgraded to faith foot soldier and top tier noble footman might be upgraded to faith foot soldier.


GUARDIAN OF THE ONE                PALADIN OF THE ONE


DEVOURER                                  DARK KNIGHT


CHOSEN ONE                            CHAMPION OF ANCESTORS


BOUNDLESS ONE                            BOUNDLESS KNIGHT


ENGINEER

IMPORTANT NOTE

Try to make troops looking good. If items in which they look good and as you want them to look have over or underpowered skills to what you are planning just add new alternative version of this item at the end of items file, before item_end and equip soldier in this item.

If you have time You could also dress lords better.

I would love this troops to be easy to recognize at first glance. I suppose the most eye catching element is shield and helmet.
(as to helmets I would like Antarians to have Salade type helmet, and Great Helmets and Pigfaces alternativly to Adenians or Swadians, if you give pigfaces to swadians Gh goes to adenians etc.)

You can Change all the Caladrian old Troops, You can also add new ones and alter troop trees. You can change names of all troops. Just don't change troop ids. Remeber that experienced versions of new troops can't have better equipement and if you give them better skills let them be only slightly better. The reason why I added this experienced versions is because Upgrading is hardcoded and it's the easiest way to do it.

[Chinta Kari]

The mod is getting filled up with good ideas and enthusiastic people as an open jar under the rain.
Your work is flourishing, which is not a surprise.

Only because of the laughs I got reading your subliminal messages, work allowing, I will have a go with the troops and try to equip them up evenly and properly (looks and stats).
First I want to see how the new game features work together and how the game dynamics have changed. Then, I will just need to have a long look at the new items, take notes and then play barbie dolls once again (I just downloaded python and read the tutorials).

I wouldn't think that I will be ready before 2009, but it will be finished at some point.

Congratulations, vonmistont.

[vonmistont]

Chinta Kari> Great! Thank You.

 Maybe You two could work together?
Having two alternative versions would be cool as well. I will include each version to choose from.

[Chinta Kari]

Not a problem at all, vonmistont.

Also, I am ok with the idea of working together with Xaelyn; I think team work, in addition to less work, also gives perspective.

Xealyn, if you are finishing today, I could download your troop files and go over them, then we could put ideas together and discuss them.



The idea I have in mind for the troops basically orbits around these concetps:

Personally, I give a lot of importance to balanced-in-a-low-profile schemes; meaning with this that I feel skeptical about mods that boost everyone's stats and equipment up monstruously.

Considering that the skills go from 0-10, I would keep troops in the lower range of those levels (1-6), making exceptional to be over 6 (for example to highlight a troop tree special feature), and extremely rare (only for heroes and maybe for the Faith troops) 8+.

As I understand it, the outcome of every battle should't be so easily previsible, and for this, eventhough level and equipment should make a difference, every man should have at least some chances of winning over another man.

Neither one blow one kill,
or no kill no matter how many blows.
Something in between.


This creates a conflict with the current Legion concept. Not only for the idea of a faction with 81 AI lords spawning troops all over, but, as I told you somewhere else, for the very nature of the troops (homogeneous over-elite stats, wrapped in very heavy armors). You said you equipped the Legion mostly from an aesthetic point of view, so I would go for moddifying the legion armor's stats not to make it so hardcore; they start with more than 9000 troops, and that's a badass challenge already (even Mountain Bandits would sweep the map in those numbers).

Anyway, those are my ideas and of course, they can be discussed.

I will go to play and check everything up now.

[vonmistont]

Chinta Kari

As I already told You in PM I agree with every single word of Your conception. If You and Xaelyn make it I'm sure it will be perfect!

Also if You have some time You could dress lords.

One thing I want to elaborate a bit more...

Low stats of troops are really neccesary in my opinion. In Sword of Damocles if You don't have high Charisma You will have small army and will be probably masacred. So someone who put his skills in strength or agility instead should also have some chances. If troops were too powerfull I think It would backfire seriously on gaming pleasure. It might not be realistic to be killing machine but that's what this game stands for I think.
But I wouldn't limit skills of troops so strictly. I.e. Villanese troops could be very agile, with very high athletics, and weapon proficiences... Well but it's up to You.

As to faith troops You get 5 Global faith per Temple or Chapel, and 3/2 Global faith per shrine/monastery a week. One Faith Troop consumes 20 Global faith to appear (and it's only a chance!). So they must be ellite.

So as I said, dress them to look nice and if the items are too good or too poor just add tweaked copy of the item at the end.

Cheers and Thank You two for help (this subliminal trick really works... )

[Chinta Kari]

As I already told You in PM I agree with every single word of Your conception.

Sorry if I am too much of a pain in the ass asking the same thing over and over again. I just want to make sure we agree with each other for doing something that convinces and satisfies everyone is the point of the whole thing.

Also if You have some time You could dress lords.

Ok. Dividing this piece of the work by factions would be great.

Also, do you want to keep those 80 clone-like Centurions or do you want to have some diversity? Maybe if not names, different ranks perhaps?

But I wouldn't limit skills of troops so strictly. I.e. Villanese troops could be very agile, with very high athletics, and weapon proficiences... Well but it's up to You.

That's what I meant when I said about using high stats to highlight the faction special feature. Still, needs to be balanced, 8 in athletics is not the same as 8 in Power Strike.

As to faith troops You get 5 Global faith per Temple or Chapel, and 3/2 Global faith per shrine/monastery a week. One Faith Troop consumes 20 Global faith to appear (and it's only a chance!). So they must be ellite.

Good to know.

[vonmistont]

Also, do you want to keep those 80 clone-like Centurions or do you want to have some diversity? Maybe if not names, different ranks perhaps?

I suppose It will take a lot of time. So... diversity of Centurions would be good but I think it's on the very end on the to do list

That's what I meant when I said about using high stats to highlight the faction special feature. Still, needs to be balanced, 8 in athletics is not the same as 8 in Power Strike.

Well then we agree totaly

Thank You once again. I don't know how do You want to work on that. If You need any help let me know. The best would be to edit module_troops.py file with Notepad++ but troop editor is also ok. It has nice interface. The only thing that is easier to make in notepad are items. You just copy/paste them and don't have to chose from the list.

In case of any questions write.

Cheers

P.S. In Alpha Invasion is set on day 30, but You can set it to 2 i.e. Because in day of invasion you will get 20 000 renown and one new troop from each kind for testing purposes.

P.P.S.

I already told that You can make weaker/better copies of existing items or changing item's stats but I forgot to mention that You can also remove all the items You don't think that fit. There are so many of them that I just couldn't see them all really... Though i saw few that I don't realy like. Just keep track on every item You remove or add, I must alter module system for each.

[Chinta Kari]

I haven't heared from Xaedyn. So, just in case, I thought I would advance some work, even risking to do twice what Xaedyn is doing now.

There are though bad news and good news.



Bad news: I cannot run the game in the laptop, so the equipping part is going to need to wait (because I cannot see the new items or how the troops are gonna look).

Good news: I think I might be able to have some basic troop stats done for tomorrow. I think that this part is done easierly with the troop editor. 



Items, as you said, are easier to do editting the files and copy/pasting.

I will report the results tomorrow.

If someone would volunteer to dress them up...

[vonmistont]

The problem is... If You do it with Item Editor, You can't use module system. You must choose one way to do this and stick to it unfortunately.

As to items to make the work easier I will prepare cheat code to add all new items to Your inventory.

Cheers

[Chinta Kari]

The problem is... If You do it with Item Editor, You can't use module system. You must choose one way to do this and stick to it unfortunately.

Do you mean the troop editor?

I am completely green with the module editor, although I think I know how to edit troops already. All in theory.

I thought of first changing stats using the troop editor because it is easier to compare troops, and then using the module system to have the source code of the modified file, and to edit the items in there copy/pasting on it. Why isn't that possible?

As to items to make the work easier I will prepare cheat code to add all new items to Your inventory.

That would be great. But if you can, add not only the new items but all items directly, to play with the different possible looks easierly.

How about having all troop types in the party aswell to have acces to an easy in-field look?

[vonmistont]

The problem is... If You do it with Item Editor, You can't use module system. You must choose one way to do this and stick to it unfortunately.

Do you mean the troop editor?

I am completely green with the module editor, although I think I know how to edit troops already. All in theory.

I thought of first changing stats using the troop editor because it is easier to compare troops, and then using the module system to have the source code of the modified file, and to edit the items in there copy/pasting on it. Why isn't that possible?

As to items to make the work easier I will prepare cheat code to add all new items to Your inventory.

That would be great. But if you can, add not only the new items but all items directly, to play with the different possible looks easierly.

How about having all troop types in the party aswell to have acces to an easy in-field look?

yes Troop Editor Sorry. And it's not possible to do... In theory it is probably possible but quite hard to do... You would have to read troop.txt file that is just bunch of numbers. The thing You would have to do is:
Make stats in Editor
Back up txt file
Make items in python
Build module
Copy items data from new txt file to old txt file one by one - this is the most difficult part. Unless you can see shapes through all this number codes like Neo in Matrix

And yes I will add all items. I think i know how to increase inventory size...

I will make it right now. Give me some time...

Cheers

[Chinta Kari]

Copy items data from new txt file to old txt file one by one - this is the most difficult part. Unless you can see shapes through all this number codes like Neo in Matrix

Yea, maybe you are right and it is easier to do everything with the module system.

I will make it right now. Give me some time...

No hurry, I can't run the game until tomorrow's afternoon.

[vonmistont]

I will post Cheat adding all items in two minutes....

http://rapidshare.com/files/177666191/conversation.txt

Paste this file to game folder. Marshal will have now additional conversation option. you can choose an item and he will give You it.

[Archevious]

I have to ask that can you guys make the scouting parties more agressive. Once  they walked right pasted an enemy without fighting him!

[Chinta Kari]

The troops' stats are almost done.

Still, someone still needs to dress these guys up. I am afraid I won't be able to run the game and it is almost impossible to equip people without seeing the items or them.

Any dressing hero among you, fellas?

(Use your subliminal powers again, man! They worked with me!)