Author Topic: Mongol Mod Started-''NEW'' Picture's added.scene object Moddeler needed  (Read 24908 times)

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Eumolpus

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2008, 03:47:20 AM »
Are you serious about the tamed reindeer?  Never heard that before in my life!
Yes I am.

Thelonious

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2008, 05:47:58 AM »
Well, perhaps we could officially work on something together and collaborate to create a decent Mongolian warfare mod.

tnareuqnoc

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2008, 11:29:09 AM »
 :D Good idea :) French people love this ^^ And we love Blood  :twisted:  :mrgreen:

Eumolpus

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2008, 08:49:30 AM »
Well, I suppose you're French, but why would people of your country love this, may I ask?
I thought the French would prefer massive, armour clad western European knights.

Thelonious

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2008, 12:46:54 PM »
I figured French people had minds of their own and could decide what they liked. I didn't know one person had a say for all of them.

Mertbey

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2008, 03:10:10 PM »
well Europe is mixed with AL kind of people perhaps that WI people in France make there own decisions.

Subuatai

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2008, 09:47:59 PM »
Hi all, I don't actually have time to join a mod team but if you're looking for direction or suggestions I guess I can help out.

Though be aware that history of the Mongols is a very difficult subject relying on archaelogical evidence for accuracy rather then written documents (100000000000 texts written about Mongols from our enemies, 1 text written by us). Also making a historical mod on the early periods of Mongol history would be quite difficult, thats when the least amount of history is known especially minor details. Nonetheless it would be interesting. Now I heard that the rise of khergits mod has moving villages - if that is true, we can change the graphics of the villages, utilising their code, and make it look like a nomadic tribe (don't make them move too much though).

I like the idea of uniting the tribes against a known enemy attempting to annex tribes one by one (as was history), so have as many important (historically as possible) Mongol and Turkic tribes, as well as the Tanguts. If we can implement the great wall it would be great :D Classic! Dealing with Mongol tribes however is a difficult issue, tribes are all over the place and one tribe can have many subtribes and one subtribe can have a larger tribe with the same name etc. One note though, if you approach central asian tribal history with a mentality 'This is a Mongol tribe or this is a Turkic tribe', then you may risk arguing nonstop with facts thrown left right and center (Many Mongols and Turks have actually made this into a 'popular' hobby), as both ethnics have ended up 'sharing' certain tribes.

Here's what I propose for tribes based on historical importance and warring:
Merkits - north
Jadarad - central (Jamukha's tribe)
Kiyad - central (Temujin's tribe)
Tatar - east
Tayichuid - south east
Oirat - west
Kerait - central (Toghrul's tribe, known by Chinese as Wang Khan)
Naiman - west (We can use Kushluk as leader perhaps)
There are many important tribes such as the Uyghurs, Kyrgyz, foreign Khanates such as the Kara-Khitan as well but we can't include everyone.

Now we also have to set a timeframe on which period, since these tribes historically switched sides quite a bit. Or we can make it random. We also have to code renaming the united tribes as Mongols, and renaming character names would be good too, if it's possible. Khan means leader, Khagan means pretty much Khan of all Khans, but there will no Khagan during this period, so we'll stick to Khan. Let the player whichever tribe he choses be able to be appointed by the Kurultai as Chingghis Khaan  :lol: (If he manages to unite the tribes of course)

In terms of troop terms, during this period, it's light cavalry only, with Mongolian horses (much smaller then stallions, your feet is almost touching the ground) - if we can even mod that. Weapons? Bows, lances, axes, maces, and sabres. Troop battle alignments historically considered of 6 archers per 4 lances. So pretty much only 2 troop types (upgraded as they go along I guess). Women played a military role in defence of camps but not on the front lines, we can put them in camp defense. Note too every Mongol knew how to ride before they could walk, all men of able body trained, hunted and fought for their Khans, women were trained in martial skills to protect the families while the men rode to war. This is a nomadic culture in a harsh land, there were no 'civilians'.

So what you think? Can we do this?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 10:02:49 PM by Subuatai »

Mertbey

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2008, 11:18:28 PM »
hhmm yes perhaps we can Subuatai , i was busy my self with modeling the face of the khans but i don't have match time sow it will take some time before i post it here. if you have more idea's ore models we cane use in the mod you're welcome to help.

Deyshawn

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2008, 11:50:34 PM »
Is it possible to expand the map after a certain stage in the game. Take for instance: you start out in a war between the Mongol tribes. Once you manage to unite the tribes, the mod expands, and you get to see parts of China, Russia, and the other surrounding countries. Then it expands again and you can see all of asia (from Israel to the Islands of Japan, From Northern Russia to Southern India).

Just a thought, I don't know if this is possible with the mount&blade engine.
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Pali Gap

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2008, 12:45:54 AM »
  I don't think that is possible.  But for the sake of simplicity, we should leave out the Mongol Empire and stick with just the pre-Ghengis tribes.  Actually, I think it would be better if we stuck with the Onon River area, and made everything much more specific.  Taking settlements and conquering should not be allowed, and all one should be able to do in that area is to burn down a village.  I can do troops, conversations, etc.  I cannot however, do any kind of modelling or texturing, or adding code.  I'm a very inexperienced modder, but what I can do, I believe I can do very efficiently.  If I was to do the map, I would need for someone to lay out where they want the villages and how they want it to look.  Unfortunately, all my work was sacrificed for a terabyte drive.  It was so worth it!  But when I had the most work done, when you went on the battle map it looked really quite amazing.  Virtually identical to a scene in the movie, when Tehmujin got shot in the back while fleeing from the Merkits.

  Furthermore, in the battle scene in 'Mongol' between Tehmujin and Jamukha, Tehmujin sends out thirty or so riders with two scimitars faced backwards, which enables them to slice through hordes of men.  Is there any truth to this practice?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 12:56:53 AM by ben34698 »

Subuatai

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2008, 07:59:48 AM »
hhmm yes perhaps we can Subuatai , i was busy my self with modeling the face of the khans but i don't have match time sow it will take some time before i post it here. if you have more idea's ore models we cane use in the mod you're welcome to help.

The artistic intepretations you have right now are probably all we can use. Though much of the heavier armoured horses didn't come into the Mongol armies until invasions of Persia and Europe. Heavily armored lancers still rode unarmored horses at this time. Here's quite a good documentary I watched (I was pleasantly surprised it stuck as close as it could to facts!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHJpewDGZZ4

Also I just noticed a post on the second page with a map of the tribes, that one is too modern. The modern Mongol tribes such as Halha, Oirat, Kalmyk, Buryat, Tsahar, Hazara etc are pretty much new confederations.

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Is it possible to expand the map after a certain stage in the game. Take for instance: you start out in a war between the Mongol tribes. Once you manage to unite the tribes, the mod expands, and you get to see parts of China, Russia, and the other surrounding countries. Then it expands again and you can see all of asia (from Israel to the Islands of Japan, From Northern Russia to Southern India).

Just a thought, I don't know if this is possible with the mount&blade engine.

Noway, we would have then also have to model CHinese troops, Korean troops, Japanese troops, Persian troops, Russian troops, Polish troops, Hungarian troops. Nah make it simple.

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Taking settlements and conquering should not be allowed, and all one should be able to do in that area is to burn down a village.  I can do troops, conversations, etc.  I cannot however, do any kind of modelling or texturing, or adding code.


Then whats the point of the mod, you are to unite the tribes. Burning camps and leaving them behind isn't going to do that. How nomads unite is very simple: "Me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin, me, my brother and my cousin against the world" - in other words, by the strongest of leaders. The tribes are to be subjicated, not just burnt.

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  Furthermore, in the battle scene in 'Mongol' between Tehmujin and Jamukha, Tehmujin sends out thirty or so riders with two scimitars faced backwards, which enables them to slice through hordes of men.  Is there any truth to this practice?

ENTIRE last battle in that movie is fictional, if you want a more accurate dispiction, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHJpewDGZZ4
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 08:45:42 AM by Subuatai »

Mertbey

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2008, 10:00:35 PM »
yes perhaps, when i started thinking of making a mod about the mongol id didn't think sow difficult i just what ed  to make it simple by changing the names and giving it more Asian style locking, and adding some armors and weapons that look more nomadic, and some story in it, we cane make it simple like that and later we cane change it and do something bether

Pali Gap

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2008, 10:46:55 PM »
You misunderstand my words Subuatai, I mean that I don't think that you should be able to conquer or unite the tribes, that would be too complicated.  I agree with Mertbey that this should be a simple mod.  Wasn't really asking about the battle either, I knew it was fictitious, I was really asking about the riders and their wierd backwards scimitar techniques.

Subuatai

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2008, 02:44:46 AM »
Yeah I guess start small then see how many people support the idea, if enough then we can add to it. I don't think it would be THAT difficult to make it possible to unite tribes, but heh I don't know much about modding, but I'm assuming that it's pretty much a 'copy and paste' script + slight alterations maybe?

The nomadic armor/weapons pretty much you got most in the native stock, well only a few in particular, the bow, nomad vests, the lamellar armor (not the vest), and the helmets. Dunno how we are going to make the horses ponies though  :?

And nah, riders with wierd backwards two scimitars chopping stuff is fictional. Only styles are bow, spear and shield, lance, one-handed sabre and shield, both one and two-handed axe and mace, and thrown spears. The very strange thing however with Mongols is that rather then prefering to perfect use of melee weapons, they prefered to perfect wrestling techniques instead. Perhaps wrestling is good for archery which they deemed as more important in terms of weapons - stronger man -> stronger pullforce -> more penetrating power. Or the actual melee goal for a Mongol is to parry and disarm their opponent before wrestling them to the ground. Not sure.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 02:49:57 AM by Subuatai »

Ruthven

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Re: Mongol Mod Idea
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2008, 02:48:52 AM »
Well, I suppose you're French, but why would people of your country love this, may I ask?
I thought the French would prefer massive, armour clad western European knights.
I think he's referring to the French forum. The few times I've ventured in there I get the impression that that is his hangout spot.