Post Match Analysis - ECS2 Semi Final - WeDontYou Vs Apis Europae

This article is reflection by Trebron immediately after the ECS2 Semi Final match between his team WhyDontYou and Apis Europae.




PreMatch

Rayden considered 2 maps to pick: FbtR and Naval Outpost. We decided not to pick a typical open map because of few reasons:
- AE could start with heavy cav build which, if used well, can easily suppress cavalry and archer quality which we believe is our strongest point
- Blacktide ain't so good at cavalry as he used to be so basically we're left with 3 cavs
- we wanted to avoid archer friendly maps: AE can play with 3 or even more proper archers, we have only 2
Unfortunately for us, Naval Outpost appeared to be more archer friendly than we thought before. We've realised after first training match that our concept for this map doesn't work well. Knowing the map pick was a huge fail there was no other way but to pay a bit more attention for Verloren. Being worse at your "own" map is the first step to lose. I blame myself for suggesting this rubbish pick.

Set 1 – Naval Outpost
WeDontYou =  Nords v Apis Europae = Swadia

First set, first round. We tried to push AE's positon at their spawn with cavs going in from 3 different directions. I was supposed to go from back and keep their archer busy to give the team some time to push and break enemy's crossfire. I died like a noob so it didn't work. Team had to move back.
AE made a mistake at this round - they let our infantry go first for the flag. They got stopped in the tunnel and lost this round. It was first and probably the last round that went as we planned before the match.
Second round of this set is the best example of how Naval Outpost is ranger friendly map. Roux at higher ground picking up 2 kills in a row on me and Rayden, simply winning it.
Third round was very close but our poor performance in 4v4 and AE's full armour gave them the victory.
Last round of first set - AE pushing to the ship where flag has spawned. They came from the wrong side - our spawn. It was a good place to let our archers and cavalry do the job. Our infantry was waiting near the ship but far enough to not let AE infantry get on it.

Set 2 – Naval Outpost
Apis Europae =  Nords v WeDontYou = Swadia

At the first round flag spawned on ship. AE pushed from the middle. We didn't manage to stop them from reaching this ship. It was a mistake to let Nords get in there. They won.
Hard to say more about the rest of rounds. We've failed completely at every flag spawn. AE rangers did a good job to shut down our cavalry and their infantry was always in the right place to push Rayden or Benny.  When your opponent is taking so comfortable win on the map you've picked - you play very bad.

Set 3 – Verloren
WeDontYou =  Vaegirs v Apis Europae = Sarranids

We've won 3 rounds because the infantry did well and rangers didn't get pushed by AE infantry. We've been training this map with 3 cavalry but just before it started Rayden decided to start with classic setup - 2 cav, 2 archers, 4 infantry. The timing between cavalry and infantry was finally perfect - AE rangers got forced into melee.
Last round of the first set - one of AE cavalry changed the class to infantry. It didn’t really surprise us but there was a bad call to rush the tower. Benny died and AE pushed us from the left side of our spawn. We couldn't set up crossfire. They rushed slowly, sticking to walls. AE sent 2 guys to the middle. One archer and infantry with spear. Relax rushed them thinking I'll help but I was going back to our infantry. Don't know which one of us failed, doesn't matter that much - but we lost one cav because of that. Round was pretty close however that archer who came from the middle carried it for AE.

Set 4 – Verloren
WeDontYou = Sarranids v Apis Europae = Vaegirs

I was quite confident we were going to win the last spawn 4:0. First Verloren spawn was really good, played poorly again though.
Last set - first round. We hoped for flag spawn on the market or at the right side of our spawn, under balcony. Didn't get lucky - AE did. Flag at Vaegir spawn.
Infantry was going in from right side, I was told to rush the archer at that small wall near tunnel entrance. If I remember well - 30 seconds left. Someone in our team died and I got stopped by some cav, had to kill that archer fast. I didn't make it. Orders were given too late, AE played it for a draw.
Second round - flag spawning at the marketplace. There was some tactic prepared for this flagspawn, we didn't really follow it and because of that some guys died too fast. Benny was left behind at balcony when infantry went to flag. Really stupid. They killed us one by one, there was no real clash. Lost this round because AE infantry didn't get stopped between the tunnel and tower stairs. Just let them go in too far.
The match was over.

Despite poor personal performance I think it's the map pick that heavily influenced the match result. Should've played Field by The River we can always win 8 rounds on it and steal few at opponent's map. AE did their best to make use of our every mistake and slow reaction time at Naval Outpost.


This article was based on a match review by WeDontyou Trebron, all credit to him.  The image and permission to post are from Captain Lust.

Thank you to the Sponsors of the ECS, pretty damn cool to see how far we've come.

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Haha, nice to see you doing that kind of stuff, Trebby!

Agreed with Nea, that's great that LeRoux is not the only one having fun doing so. Really interesting to read to get a complete overview of the match. Thanks for sharing.

Interesting read. Time to unban Trebron from TW forum imo!

The feeling for me was that a mix of playing aggressive and using 3 infs doesn't work. Many fights in closed areas, and if you stuff in 4+3=7 infs + 2 enemy cavs, and add 3 of your own (a combined number of 12 players), it's suddenly too much STUFF to "get through". 3 cav dominates the (outside of the) boat and the top side, not the alleys or corners of the pond.

3 infs 3 cav on Naval Outpost is a push-and-pull game, you drag the opponents out and let cav do the bulk of the work, which wasn't the case at all on Naval. One can still pull through with big plays, but that wasn't the case that night. AE did some very weird positioning too, like taking the fight to boat (if you fight outside of the boat, cav will have plenty of couchlance room + places where archers can't properly shoot at all times). LeRoux and Razer combined with Wierdo pulled them through those fights at the boat though, with some sick headshots and good support play.

Same way WDY lost the last round vs AE as Vaegir, when AE had no cav and instead of fighting out at the flag, in the open, they decided to take the fight in the closed corner where cav had no impact. Rounds similiar to this repeated and lost WDY the match.



All in all though, a good and entertaining match. Although with some tactical errors from both teams, they put on a good performance showing of their skill even in messy situations - regardless of when and where, the players can do their job and win the round together Kudos to AE for the win, and best of luck to both teams in their respective last-week matches. #ECSHype

Pretty interesting, agree with most of the analysis. Definitely think the map pick contributed heavily.

Nice stuff.

The image is great!

Other than that this was intersting. Thank you!

I wasn't aware that my cavalry play was the main driving force behind picking Naval Outpost. If I remember correctly, our dedicated cavalry were complaining that we can't play six cavalry on an open map because they block them off and don't know how to play it properly. There were also some concerns that AE might have some archer based tactic to mess us up on field by the river. Naval outpost was supposed to let us play our 3 dedicated cavalry without them getting blocked and then we'd win. 

There was a spot of confusion when we began to move away from our pre-prepared tactics on Naval Outpost.

All in all, naval outpost was a bad choice.

BlackTide said:

AE might have some archer based tactic to mess us up on field by the river

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We did, but I was definitely expecting a fbtr pick still. I said in the interview blacktide not really the type to go crazy and get kills, just reliable to survive a long time but that's definitely not the case looking at stats etc. this is why people make fun of me for not knowing anything about battle players..

nice read trebron, it's interesting to read another team's reasons for doing what they're doing and opinion on what we're doing.

[M] said:

We did, but I was definitely expecting a fbtr pick still. I said in the interview blacktide not really the type to go crazy and get kills, just reliable to survive a long time but that's definitely not the case looking at stats etc. this is why people make fun of me for not knowing anything about battle players..

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Are you saying I die alot? 

I don't backpedal quite as much in battle as I do in duel, though enough for cleric to say that I "ain't got any pressure". I had a good first map yesterday but really dropped the ball on Velloren, dying first a fair bit. Either way, good show.