Could Hiroshima and Nagasaki be considered War crimes?

Users who are viewing this thread

I was ''debating'' with some American (of the ''**** yeah!'' variety) and they were saying Hiroshima and Nagasaki were ''payback'' for pearl Harbour.

But wasn't Pearl Harbour a military installation?
And wasn't Hiroshima and Nagasaki mainly civilians area?

Could the atomic bombing of these cities be considered war crimes?
 
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Japan was completely on the ropes at that point and using the bombs was unnecessary, though the US high command was not 100% certain that was the case. IJN had been almost completely sunk and the few ships they had left had no fuel to sail anyway. Most of industry and infrastructure had been wiped out - so much so that American pilots complained that they had nothing to attack while flying over Japan. IJA was a weak shadow of its past glory and lacked heavy armament. The last significant formations were stuck in Manchuria, busy being overrun by the Red Army.

But Pentagon analysts made doomsday predictions regarding casualties - these estimates were based on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, apparently without taking into consideration the fact that both of those island battles had very special circumstances. In both cases, the defender had no way to escape and in Okinawa, the small civilian population was "brainwashed" to accept death as the only acceptable path. Still, at both locations there were surrenders and not all civilians in Okinawa committed suicide. If an Allied invasion took place on the actual home islands, Japan would have crumpled relatively quickly and the amount of deserters and survivors would have been much higher than it was on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

With estimated casualties going over a million just for the Allies, it is understandable that Truman chose to use the bomb instead.
 
Yea, from the little I've read there were some people advocating the use of the bombs as a more merciful alternative than invasion, arguing that the devastation of two cities was better than the hypothetical "to the bitter end" defense they feared the whole populace would put up.

Also, "Look at us world, we have atomic weapons. Don't mess with us."
 
Wasn't the Russian invasion of Japanese-held territory in 1945 as important in forcing the Japanese to surrender as the atomic bombs? I believe it was a big deal for them.

Also firebombing Japanese cities to ash did more damage than the 2 atomic bombs.
 
Captured Joe said:
Wasn't the Russian invasion of Japanese-held territory in 1945 as important in forcing the Japanese to surrender as the atomic bombs? I believe it was a big deal for them.

I don't think it played much of a role at all. They weren't concerned with overseas territories anymore and it didn't present any additional risk to the home islands.
 
Captured Joe said:
Wasn't the Russian invasion of Japanese-held territory in 1945 as important in forcing the Japanese to surrender as the atomic bombs? I believe it was a big deal for them.

A large number of people, including my former professor and Oliver Stone, are convinced that Japan would have accepted the same terms they ultimately got far earlier in the summer, meaning that the bombs achived nothing. The same people also claim that the Japanese themselves were far more concerned about the Soviets than they were about the bombs. In the best case scenario, the unreasonable Soviets would have occupied Hokkaido & other norther islands, in the worst they would have brought the revolution to the main island and hanged the emperor.
 
Any attack on civilians is a war-crime!
Its not even worth debating, especially
after Japanese war criminals from Unit 731,
got protection and diplomatic immunity
by US hypocrisy and double standards!

Elites get away with everything unharmed / Soldiers Follow orders / Civilians Suffer / & Evil prevails

Barefoot Gen  :arrow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOSQkpfBJqQ

FhM0cLx.jpg
 
RabbleKnight said:
Communist Japan.
The horror.  :ohdear:

Japan very nearly became communist (democratically) in the years before it went full fascist, very similar to what happened in Nazi Germany in the same sort of period (1920s).

But yeah, as CapJoe said the US almost completely destroyed Toyko through firebombing, which was a far larger city than anything else in the country. The effect of that on the national psyche is probably why there was virtually zero grassroots resistance to the American occupation, despite what many people expected. To this day the Japanese government pretends all that destruction never happened by erasing huge sections of history books.
 
RabbleKnight said:
The use of Atomic weapons is the stupidest **** the human species ever did.

Lets risk destroying our planet to save a few lives.
Nah. Giving it to the USSR was stupider.
Also, atomic weapons damn nearly got conventionalized, and that would've been bad.
 
Jhessail said:
Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Japan was completely on the ropes at that point and using the bombs was unnecessary, though the US high command was not 100% certain that was the case. IJN had been almost completely sunk and the few ships they had left had no fuel to sail anyway. Most of industry and infrastructure had been wiped out - so much so that American pilots complained that they had nothing to attack while flying over Japan. IJA was a weak shadow of its past glory and lacked heavy armament. The last significant formations were stuck in Manchuria, busy being overrun by the Red Army.

But Pentagon analysts made doomsday predictions regarding casualties - these estimates were based on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, apparently without taking into consideration the fact that both of those island battles had very special circumstances. In both cases, the defender had no way to escape and in Okinawa, the small civilian population was "brainwashed" to accept death as the only acceptable path. Still, at both locations there were surrenders and not all civilians in Okinawa committed suicide. If an Allied invasion took place on the actual home islands, Japan would have crumpled relatively quickly and the amount of deserters and survivors would have been much higher than it was on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

With estimated casualties going over a million just for the Allies, it is understandable that Truman chose to use the bomb instead.

Maybe the home islands would have surrendered "easily", but would they for sure? An invasion would still have been a massive gamble imo. I can't blame the US  for embracing the "better safe than sorry" approach.
RabbleKnight said:
I was ''debating'' with some American (of the ''**** yeah!'' variety) and they were saying Hiroshima and Nagasaki were ''payback'' for pearl Harbour.

No one of any relevance advocated dropping the bomb as a payback as far as I know. That's just some deluded redneck ****.
 
Both sides committed all manner of war crimes in WW1 and WW2, it is simply the fact that the winners didn't have to answer for their crimes even though they should have.

Guess that is one of the biggest pro's of winning a war huh?
 
kurczak said:
No one of any relevance advocated dropping the bomb as a payback as far as I know. That's just some deluded redneck ****.
Actually not the first time i had Americans tell me they did it as payback for Pearl Harbour.
A lot actually did.
 
PinCushion said:
Both sides committed all manner of war crimes in WW1 and WW2, it is simply the fact that the winners didn't have to answer for their crimes even though they should have.

Guess that is one of the biggest pro's of winning a war huh?

Neither did the "losers". A lot of Japanese war criminals who authorised the rape of Nanking among other things were put back into the post-war government by the US. A surprisingly large number of rank 'n' file soldiers have publicly admitted to burning children alive and eating them and other shocking stuff, and were/never will be charged of anything. Even bloody Hirohito remained emperor until Reagan. Arguably, more people around the world are aware of american war crimes in the pacific than Japanese war crimes.
 
Back
Top Bottom