Is there any point to Nordic infantry? (both revised and expanded trees)

I've been playing Warband for a while, and I finally got around to downloading the Floris mod, and for the most part I like it a lot. There's just one problem that is starting to ruin it for me: Nordic infantry - which is supposed to be pretty good, if not the best - sucks.

I've been kicking the daylights out of sea raiders for some time, and while I noted that I took a lot more infantry casualties than in regular Warband (even when taking advantage of formations, softening up with archers and flanking with cavalry, etc.), I simply took it as part of the balancing changes/increased difficulty.

The real trouble began when I became a vassal and started besieging castles. No matter what I do, my troops always get instantly annihilated whenever they reach the top of the ramp. Attacking a hot pan with a stick of butter would be more effective, and that's not an exaggeration. I've tried leading them up, and while I'm able to step over the wall and grab a few kills, every infantryman who arrives to help me quickly dies, and I'm forced to pull back once my supply of them is exhausted. I've tried letting my Rhodok & Vaeger archers thin the ranks of the defenders with multiple attacks until ammo is exhausted, but that doesn't seem to help, either, as my own troops are also getting picked off during this time.

This occurs whenever I attack any nation's castle (aside from Nordic ones, as I am currently a vassal of the Nords and haven't tried it yet) with Nordic infantry from the expanded and revised troop trees. To add insult to injury, I can't ever complete the "join your marshal" quest, as Nordic AI sieges are always auto-resolved to a ludicrously quick victory. 

tl;dr: Nord infantry sucks, is there anything I can do to re-balance it, or should I give up and go back to the default troop tree?

Frankly all the troops suck especially at low levels. But here's the thing. The Nords are actually very effective but you need to know how to use them. Of all the infantry types other than the mercenaries, they are probably the most hardcore both in terms of difficulty as well as ability.

The overlapping shields (when in formation) are their main strength, which allows them to survive better than any other faction under heavy archer attack.

We had this discussion about 2 years ago as well. Check it out for some ideas.

My favorite Nord strategy is mostly infantry in shield walls. I move multiple groups (you can group them in the party window, as well as use the split troops function) with shields in front, skirmisher types (throwing weapons and archery) closely behind them. I move them via holding the F1 key or using the commander's map (backspace). I am the only mounted troop and I ride around the battlefield trying to read it for vantage points and to see the weak spot of the enemy. I don't fight alongside them unless necessary, because I need to be commanding. But then again that's true for me with every faction.

When my skirmishers get in missile range it usually causes the enemy to break formation to engage my shield wall. Nord infantry will always make quick work of that. But the real challenge is closing with the enemy archer line, which needs to be done immediately. For that I always have a separate flanker division, comprised of more shielded infantry. If the archers focus their attacks on the flankers, then it takes the heat off the main force. If they don't, then the flankers will obliterate the archer line.

It's fun and you will take casualties, but as far as I'm concerned, other than the mercenaries, the Nords have the best infantry-per-tier in the game.

What do you find lacking in Nord's infantry? Are we talking about the shield tree or the spear tree?
Assuming you mean the shield tree, their short-range weapons should make them very well equipped at getting into the face of anything and chopping them up to bits. This is especially good versus any spear type infantry.

But to use them for assaulting the walls? Not too sure how well that would work out. In that kind of situation, a longer weapon reach might have an advantage. Before they can even get in range to swing, they get hit from many angles by many enemies crowding that single entrance to the wall top.

Yeah even with the Nords it's still advisable to use the general tactic of softening the walls up with archers first before charging in. It's a waste of troops to just toss them into a bloodbath especially since the highest tier troops always spawn first for both sides. If you get rid of the high level troops with archers as much as possible your troops will have an easier time getting in.

Bottom line is you need to split your troops up. Don't just use the default Infantry-Archers-Cavalry divisions. You need to separate your shield guys from your spear guys so you can move them as needed.

I'll keep all of that in mind, thanks. To answer your question, I had pretty even numbers of spear and shield in one large infantry group.

I do have one question, though: when it IS time to storm the walls, which kind of infantry should go first?

That's something you learn by experience through observation. Generally speaking though, if your archers and theirs are still shooting too much, then it's too early. I wouldn't recommend going in unless you know you have a numerical advantage or superior infantry, but generally they will block the entrance points with their best infantry as well, keeping your guys stuck on a ladder or in a pit near the gate, where the enemy archers can easily just rain arrows on your men. But yeah you can go in if you know what you're doing, and you'll know what you're doing through experience.

About which infantry goes first, it depends on your army composition, but personally I lead with my heaviest troops first, usually shielded troops so as to protect them and the men behind them from more missiles at the top of the stairs/ramp.

I know some people don't like to do that because it most likely means they'll die or get incapacitated. They say it's a "waste" of an I6 or I7 unit. But why even get high tier troops though if you aren't going to use them in combat? They're soldiers, not toys to collect. My take on it is use your troops for what they are designed for.

Some of the best troops IMO for leading the charge are the mercenary I6 units, particularly the Landsknechte and the Grosskomture. They're without a doubt the best I6 units (they actually have I7 stats), so they're very very good at what they do. The Landsknechte have polearms and shields, so they're great for leading up a ladder, and the Grosskomture have high damage weapons. If you want to use purely Nord troops, I recommend the shielded troops especially the I5 Skjadsveinn line followed by the A5 Heimthegi (they have throwing weapons, which will take out a lot of enemies at that range) and the I6 Himthige for high damage. There's other ways to do it but this is like a bread-and-butter approach.

I have been playing a bit using the reworked troop trees and have noticed that the Nords are really getting eaten up by the Swadians.  I don't have command of the troops since I enlisted in a lord's army, but I have never before seen such a high death toll among the Nords as I have seen in Floris expanded.  The Swadian mounted troops really just eat them up, even when the Nords have had a numerical advantage and good quality troops.

The Nords did seem to do as well as expected in a castle assault against the Vaegirs.

I wonder if others have experienced this kind of imbalance in their gameplay.

I have no experience with Reworked but the Swadians are tough against most factions in Expanded in my experience, especially in the larger battle sizes. They're too well-balanced. They got good archers, heavy infantry and good cavalry. I was fighting against them as Rhodoks, Sarranid and Khergit and I always had a fairly hard time compared to other factions.

For the Nords, my solution to cavalry is still the shield wall, but I would make sure I had archers in the back and more spear guys among the shield wall. Unless they have overwhelming numbers, I should be able to at least whittle down the cavalry. After the cavalry is gone I regroup. But yeah you can't do that if you're enlisted. Too bad the AI doesn't use tactics properly. I hope they address that in Bannerlord. I'd love to see the AI properly matching wits, or at least trying, with the player commanders. It could make each battle potentially epic.

I know that it's been a little while, but I thought I'd revive this instead of making an entirely new thread.


Every new game I've started since making this thread has had native troops, but I'd like to give the expanded tree another try.

To that end, are there files I could alter to give the Nordic troops a little bit of a boost? Slightly better equipment, better stats, more relevant skills, etc?

EDIT:

I downloaded a tool to edit the troops.txt file, and looking at the Nordic troop stats, I can see why they don't hold up very well. I've made some significant improvements (namely giving buffs where they're due and getting rid of pointless skills like Riding).

To be honest, they'll probably be incredibly OP now, but I'll start up a new game and report back. If they seem balanced I'll post what stats I altered so others can use them.