[ECS2] Suggestions & Questions

Aeronwen said:

so it certainly would not happen in teh middle of a round

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Sorry?

When screenshot asked to be taken, 3:41 (teams are in same place, looking at each other)

When fight is nearly over, 3:14 (i just took this screenshot from VOD on Youtube.Fight started like at 3:30, but map intro was over at 3:14 so we can't see the time when fight started exactly.

What i'm trying to say is simple.You can be more careful when to ask ppl to take screenshots.

Guy Fawkes said:

Aeronwen said:

so it certainly would not happen in teh middle of a round

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What i'm trying to say is simple.You can be more careful when to ask ppl to take screenshots.

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She also said next:

I would expect referees to recognise, and deal with, situations where the screenshot cannot be taken for match reasons.

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Not saying ref of the match is to be blamed a lot.Spawns on the Naval Outpost are so close to each other so Dyktator probably didn't think there would be engagement so early in the round.

Guy Fawkes said:

When screenshot asked to be taken, 3:41 (teams are in same place, looking at each other)

Spoiler

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I asked you before 3:50
Anyway it was 10th round and 9:0 for you so it was over...

EDIT: Maybe Anti-WH maps will be better solution.. I hope you like banners

Guy Fawkes said:

When screenshot asked to be taken, 3:41 (teams are in same place, looking at each other)

Spoiler

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Imho you should face some consequences for posting such a screenshot even though Dyktator said precisely "WITH SCORETABLE"... Not that difficult, unless you want to cover up something, yeah?

You only need 2 seconds to take a screenshot... f12 if you have a steam version or run your non steam verison throu steam or "prt sc"+ paste in Paint. Not a big deal...

Lol what?

If you check his sentence, you will see score table is last word, and its mentioned lastly.In the middle of fight me, menethil and triari couldn't see it and took the screenshot directly.Other players probably checked his sentence and took screenshot after the fight, as you can see the time from their screenshots.Think twice before saying something.

Taking screenshot thing is not problem.I just wanted to clarify you should find the right time to request screenshots.

i don't see how after a match is over is not an applicable time to request screenshots, lol.

Arthasan said:

Guy Fawkes said:

When screenshot asked to be taken, 3:41 (teams are in same place, looking at each other)

Spoiler

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Imho you should face some consequences for posting such a screenshot even though Dyktator said precisely "WITH SCORETABLE"... Not that difficult, unless you want to cover up something, yeah?

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Yeah smart man

Dyktator said:

EDIT: Maybe Anti-WH maps will be better solution.. I hope you like banners

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Yeah that's always seemed a fun idea to me, was suggested a while back. Stuff like aimbots don't concern me that much, I don't think they'd be very useful, but wallhack would give a massive advantage, and this would be one way to prevent them without putting the onus on 100+ players.

Arthasan said:

Guy Fawkes said:

When screenshot asked to be taken, 3:41 (teams are in same place, looking at each other)

Spoiler

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Imho you should face some consequences for posting such a screenshot even though Dyktator said precisely "WITH SCORETABLE"... Not that difficult, unless you want to cover up something, yeah?

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I don't think there is a magical wallhack that would turn on when you open the score table. Therefore it is obvious that you are looking for a loophole here, for reasons I don't know.

To be honest the referee can prepare his sentence and may ask at the end of a round or in the beginning of a round. That way any complications caused by the loss of concentration are prevented. The time when the teams are facing each other in the same side of the map is not a good time at all.

@Dyktator: I don't know much about map making or any of the sort, but as far as I'm concerned the wallhacks work by changing some textures with something transparent. The banners can be changed with something transparent and then this solution would be useless.

I think Lust said it already, but I believe most of our problems can be solved by everyone who plays in the match, taking a screenshot during the match.

....

As well as us, IG guys didnt understand when referee meant by that and they were surprised too.So everyone took screenshots when he typed right now.But when he typed "right now" teams were looking at each other and team fight was too close.So some IG guys took screenshot after team fight normally.That's why i said "better time" in my previous posts.

_Toi_ said:

I don't think there is a magical wallhack that would turn on when you open the score table.

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There is 'a magical trick', though. You ask your teammate to make a screenshot for you Maybe I am exaggerating, but it's due to the experience from Polish Cups when players tried to break the rules in every way possible...

Well personally i think the setup for the tournament is working quite well!

Yeah I doubt that anyone here can come with that idea in the first trial of this rule.

OurGloriousLeader said:

Dyktator said:

EDIT: Maybe Anti-WH maps will be better solution.. I hope you like banners

Spoiler

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Yeah that's always seemed a fun idea to me, was suggested a while back. Stuff like aimbots don't concern me that much, I don't think they'd be very useful, but wallhack would give a massive advantage, and this would be one way to prevent them without putting the onus on 100+ players.

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OGL confirmed aimbotter. But seriously, how is wallhacking much worse than aimbotting? Lol, its the other way around. Wallhacks in a game like warband aren't that gamechanging , definitely an aimbot would have a lot more impact.
In competitive matches you most of the time know where the enemy is located, and even if not, knowing the location of an enemy doesnt mean much at all, unlike in Counter Strike. An aimbot, though, can give you tons of headshots and change rounds at will...

Unlike in games like CS, in Warband the majority of shots are predictive, even on targets standing still you're waiting for that moment when you're predicting they're going to stay there for the half second it takes your shot to get there. For people fighting in melee or moving cav the calculation is even more complicated, people seldom move in straight lines at a set speed, Darwinism soon sees them die out (it's actually got to the point I miss those guys I'm so attuned to shooting what people 'normally' do ) I've never tested an aimbot but from what I understand they're not predictive and I assume any sort of homing shot would be way too noticeable. So all an aimbot would do is mess up most of your shots, kill idiots who would die anyway (or Cleric), and very occasionally give you a good shot.

I might be wrong though.

Edit: Obviously I'm not saying aimbot is harmless or "ok", just that I think the advantage an aimbot would give is overrated by most.

Nice! If you're right then aimbots would indeed be pretty useless den.

OGL is an experienced aimbotter, everyone knows. That's a pity he didnt find any doto cheats for himself 

Ceasar said:

Prolly, we'll see by then if they changed it or not. I can do such a thing once in the beginning,mid or end of the tourney. but gonna refuse doing it more often then once. Just because this is not the solution. I obviously get that they're trying to solve the issue with cheaters, but it shouldn't be done this way.

There should be soemthing on the ECS servers that doesn't allow players with mods to join.

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Magnus_XIV said:

General suspicion is never a solution. It's not up to the players to proof they aren't cheating - in dubio pro reo...
Anyway in 30 min anyone who has some skills on editing images could still manipulate it...
Another point is that, if you were cheating like sotamursu, you could just simply look at the sky and noone would even recognize it....

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It's so difficult to get it right for you guys. Really it is. There is no Anti Cheat System our community based tournaments can rely on, there is undoutably cheating going in a lot if not all tournaments, but the administrators don't have any means to deal with it. Now that they come up with a solution that has worked in a domestic tournament for years that isn't right too, simply because it's not the "right" way and players shouldn't have to prove they aren't guilty.

You want secruity and fairplay, but you aren't willing to contribute your part. Asking someone to upload a couple of screenshots is really nothing compared to the work a few people here put in to host tournaments for you. Maybe you should think about it that way. And by the way, there are already a couple of players uploading screenshots after every match, the teamcaptains, and appearently they aren't complaining about it (yet).

Regarding bypassing it by looking in the sky, referee's will ask you to include buildings in the screenshots, so that's not a possibility.

Menethil said:

I didnt see any screenshots except our match. WeDontYou played against Castellans, AE vs AD, IR vs Legend. Why didnt they post any screen. I'm just wondering.

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I'm guessing the other referee's simply didn't get informed yet. Dyktator has been an administrator of the PP, the tournament that already had this system in place. I agree though, this system should be used for every match, I just think it was an oversight rather than focusing Freelancers and Guard of Istiniar out.

Scar said:

[...]

Regarding bypassing it by looking in the sky, referee's will ask you to include buildings in the screenshots, so that's not a possibility.

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I get your point. You are right that it's not a lot of work to post screenshots compared to the work all the admins have with this tournament, nevertheless the point I just mentioned about looking in the sky is only one possibility of avoiding one's cheats to be recognized. 
There are different ways of cheating, probably the most common one is using coloured javs, arrows and so on. How can you see those by looking at the textures of any building?
You could have every player to schow another ingame character on you screenshot, but he could simply drop his javs or whatever before....
As you see many more rules would be needed to make sure the screenshot is relevant. But what will happen if a player just forgets one of the rules? Those who are really cheating would know about the rules and would watch out to make their screenshots in a way they can't be cought. But someone who doesn't have anything to hide, might not remember the rules in detail and could forget to make the screenshot properly...

But I don't want to critzise only... So one possibilty would be to create a very simple map with javs, arrows, weopons, shield etc. on the walls. Everybody would join in real quick and would take a screen. That wont take than 5 min. Everythig I mentioned before would be avoided just by using a special map. To avoid anybody does his screenshot later on a separeted server, you could make everybody to show the scoreboard at the same time. Only two rules and it would be safe that noone is at least using texture cheats: 1. Make a screenshot right after the match on the "screenshot-map". 2. Show your scoreboard on your screenshot.