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Veniathan

Veniathan

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Hello, not sure if it should be in this forum but I hope so.

I just want to say you have a new player, which is me. I usually play cRPG but I got bored and wanted some nice historical accuracy, I found this. Goodness what a beautiful mod. I checked the servers however and all are empty almost 21pm here in the Balkans sadly.

I hope the game is still alive? And, if so, see you guys ingame.
 
It is well and truly alive. However, we mostly play during events such as the monthly EU event and the weekly NA Scildweall event. In addition to that you can keep an eye on this nifty little thread that we use if anyone is playing. Now with all that behind us, welcome to Vikingr!
 
Snowthorn said:
It is well and truly alive. However, we mostly play during events such as the monthly EU event and the weekly NA Scildweall event. In addition to that you can keep an eye on this nifty little thread that we use if anyone is playing. Now with all that behind us, welcome to Vikingr!
Click to expand...

Righto, thanks for the help. This is a really beautiful game, so far it has proven to be and it makes me wonder why the players are not playing it more. The events you linked look fun, surely I'll attend however I hoped for some pub play too. I like to join a server at evening and have fun. Last night we had 3 players, nothing extraordinary :razz:
 
Veniathan said:
...wanted some nice historical accuracy...
Click to expand...

d0UN5pv.jpg
 
Welcome to Víkingr! See you this evening in the SWE, I hope!
Veniathan said:
Thank you, I have already named myself 'Zvonimir Svarogovich'. Though perhaps I'll re-do it a little.
Click to expand...
I'd recommend changing the patronymic, because 'son of Svarog' might be a bit too lofty/blasphemous. :razz:

As for Zvonimir, it's a pity there's no easy way to represent the final yer, which was probably still pronounced in South Slavic just as in East Slavic, without editing a game file. I favour Zvonimirŭ, but Zvonimir" would be another option.
 
hrotha said:
Welcome to Víkingr! See you this evening in the SWE, I hope!
Veniathan said:
Thank you, I have already named myself 'Zvonimir Svarogovich'. Though perhaps I'll re-do it a little.
Click to expand...
I'd recommend changing the patronymic, because 'son of Svarog' might be a bit too lofty/blasphemous. :razz:

As for Zvonimir, it's a pity there's no easy way to represent the final yer, which was probably still pronounced in South Slavic just as in East Slavic, without editing a game file. I favour Zvonimirŭ, but Zvonimir" would be another option.
Click to expand...

I changed it to Volodimir Svarogovich. I'm aware what the surname implies. And I do not feel like having to put in a soft sign as it's not pronounced, not either as the people on this forum think it is. Especially with the non slavic letter of ŭ
 
Well, you could always use the scientific transliteration system and write Volodimirъ Svarogovičь if you don't like either the ŭ or the quotation mark. Still though, the yers *were* still pronounced around this era, ъ wаsn't a "soft sign" yet but rather a vowel in its own right, in East Slavic at the very least - and Volodimir, unlike Zvonimir, is an unambiguously East Slavic name.

It's up to you, naturally.
 
hrotha said:
Well, you could always use the scientific transliteration system and write Volodimirъ Svarogovičь if you don't like either the ŭ or the quotation mark. Still though, the yers *were* still pronounced around this era, ъ wаsn't a "soft sign" yet but rather a vowel in its own right, in East Slavic at the very least - and Volodimir, unlike Zvonimir, is an unambiguously East Slavic name.

It's up to you, naturally.
Click to expand...

I do understand. I could do that but I haven't, I'm not even sure if it can be done in-game? Will the letter display? I might do it, and also I'd say it's ć and not č. Also there's no vowel at the end of ć or č. So best to just keep it at Volodimirъ Svarogović. Slavic names ending with -mir do not really need any definition per say, you can make all kinds of combinations. Volodimir or Volodimyr is a simple variation of Vladimir which imo is too overused so some variation will do I guess.

My only shame so far was how inactive this game is in pubs. Goodness what a shame, it has some of the most beautiful Warband graphics, animations, details I've EVER seen. Period.
 
Public play comes and goes in tides, although unfortunately this low tide has gone on for longer than usual. Still though, typically what happens is that people would very much want to play, but assume very few people do, which means we need a concerted effort by people to kick things off: get on the server, post here, summon your friends via IM, then post here again to let people know there were some awesome games they missed.

You're right, ъ and the other special letters can't be used in your character's in-game name without some fiddling with the files. I don't know if " and ' are among the pathetically short list of special characters they added support for a couple of years ago, but I doubt it. There's simply no good solution without hexing.

Now I'm gonna put all the nerdy language stuff in a spoiler, so that I don't hijack the thread further. :razz:
The letter ć is part of the Serbo-Croatian convention (as the normal spelling in Croatian, as a romanization in Serbian), but Slavicists only really use it to transliterate Serbian ћ. For ч, which is the letter that appears in the patronym in the other Slavic languages, Slavicists use č in accordance with the scientific transliteration system for Cyrillic.

While the patronym in Modern Croatian uses ć and does not end in a vowel, that wasn't the case in early Old East Slavic, aka Old Russian, which is some 1000 years and one language subfamily apart from Croatian :wink:. I haven't done any real research into the South Slavic branch around the 10th/11th centuries, but at least in 9th-century Old Church Slavonic, the patronym would be -ичь, transliterated as -ičĭ and ending in a short vowel. That's also the form it would have in early Old East Slavic. See for example the Russian Primary Chronicle entry for the year 1033:
Мьстиславичь Єоустафии оумре [Mĭstislavichĭ/Mьstislavičь Eustafii umre], "Evstafiy son of Mstislav died"
Click to expand...
Nowadays, Volodymyr and Vladimir may be seen simply as variants, but 1000 years ago things may have been different. Volod- shows the effects of pleophony, an exclusively East Slavic phenomenon; meanwhile, Vlad- lacks pleophony and is an example of the influence of Old Church Slavonic (a South Slavic language) in lands of Kievan Rus'. While you could orobably use the form in Vlad- for a Rus' (and hence East Slavic) character and explain it as OCS influence, the reverse wouldn't work - hence a character called Volodimirŭ or Володимиръ would be unambiguously of East Slavic stock (similar to how nowadays a guy called Владимир/Vladimir could come from a number of countries, but a Володимир would be Ukrainian). Since your first pick was Zvonimir, I thought that maybe you were going for a Croatian rather than a Rus' character :smile:.

So, to summarize, the options here would be:
1. Volodimirŭ Svarogovichĭ (modified BGN/PCGN system used by Víkingr)
2. Volodimirъ Svarogovičь (scientific transliteration)
3. Volodimir" Svarogovich' (vanilla BGN/PCGN system)
4. Volodimir Svarogovich (modernized forms)
1-3 are the historically accurate ones, but they would require editing a .dat file. Not hard to do, though.

I hope you don't mind the lecture!
 
hrotha said:
Public play comes and goes in tides, although unfortunately this low tide has gone on for longer than usual. Still though, typically what happens is that people would very much want to play, but assume very few people do, which means we need a concerted effort by people to kick things off: get on the server, post here, summon your friends via IM, then post here again to let people know there were some awesome games they missed.

You're right, ъ and the other special letters can't be used in your character's in-game name without some fiddling with the files. I don't know if " and ' are among the pathetically short list of special characters they added support for a couple of years ago, but I doubt it. There's simply no good solution without hexing.

Now I'm gonna put all the nerdy language stuff in a spoiler, so that I don't hijack the thread further. :razz:
The letter ć is part of the Serbo-Croatian convention (as the normal spelling in Croatian, as a romanization in Serbian), but Slavicists only really use it to transliterate Serbian ћ. For ч, which is the letter that appears in the patronym in the other Slavic languages, Slavicists use č in accordance with the scientific transliteration system for Cyrillic.

While the patronym in Modern Croatian uses ć and does not end in a vowel, that wasn't the case in early Old East Slavic, aka Old Russian, which is some 1000 years and one language subfamily apart from Croatian :wink:. I haven't done any real research into the South Slavic branch around the 10th/11th centuries, but at least in 9th-century Old Church Slavonic, the patronym would be -ичь, transliterated as -ičĭ and ending in a short vowel. That's also the form it would have in early Old East Slavic. See for example the Russian Primary Chronicle entry for the year 1033:
Мьстиславичь Єоустафии оумре [Mĭstislavichĭ/Mьstislavičь Eustafii umre], "Evstafiy son of Mstislav died"
Click to expand...
Nowadays, Volodymyr and Vladimir may be seen simply as variants, but 1000 years ago things may have been different. Volod- shows the effects of pleophony, an exclusively East Slavic phenomenon; meanwhile, Vlad- lacks pleophony and is an example of the influence of Old Church Slavonic (a South Slavic language) in lands of Kievan Rus'. While you could orobably use the form in Vlad- for a Rus' (and hence East Slavic) character and explain it as OCS influence, the reverse wouldn't work - hence a character called Volodimirŭ or Володимиръ would be unambiguously of East Slavic stock (similar to how nowadays a guy called Владимир/Vladimir could come from a number of countries, but a Володимир would be Ukrainian). Since your first pick was Zvonimir, I thought that maybe you were going for a Croatian rather than a Rus' character :smile:.

So, to summarize, the options here would be:
1. Volodimirŭ Svarogovichĭ (modified BGN/PCGN system used by Víkingr)
2. Volodimirъ Svarogovičь (scientific transliteration)
3. Volodimir" Svarogovich' (vanilla BGN/PCGN system)
4. Volodimir Svarogovich (modernized forms)
1-3 are the historically accurate ones, but they would require editing a .dat file. Not hard to do, though.

I hope you don't mind the lecture!
Click to expand...

I am just suprised and it's overall unusual to me because I play mainly cRPG, and we got 100+ players on every day yet some people feel like going on the forums and saying how much the game is dead. But then .. I look at Vikingr, and yeah. I almost wish it had Singleplayer mode. I'm not that sure of the history of this game but it's been out since 2011 and should not be dead if you ask me. It's a good game with great historical accuracy.

By the way I do not mind the lecture, in fact I didn't know about the vowel thing. Today I just can't imagine putting a vowel on ć. My main point though was that č and ć are absolutely different letters and ć is used for surnames. For example like Svarog's kids are named Svarožić. Difficult to explain but if you use google translator for the following two words: ćevapi and čaša you'll hear all the difference. Today in Russian language (ч) is used for both however.
 
Víkingr has always had a relatively small but very committed playerbase. With its emphasis on teamwork and its slow pace, it's never been for everyone. Most mods aren't as successful as cRPG, after all. ^_^
My main point though was that č and ć are absolutely different letters and ć is used for surnames.
Click to expand...
Yes - in Modern Croatian, but not in Old East Slavic. Proto-Slavic *-itjь becomes -ić in Modern Serbo-Croatian, but -ичь/-ičь in Old East Slavic (after some research, I don't think it was **-ичь in Old Church Slavonic either; I think it would have been -ищь/-ištь). We come again to the question of where your character comes from: if he's a Volodimirъ (no matter the spelling), he's East Slavic and uses a patronym in -ičь. I don't know enough about Old Church Slavonic and its immediate descendants (or, well, nieces) to know what the patronym would be if your character was a Croat, though, but personally my money would be on Svarogovištь (at least it seems I'm not completely alone on this, since there's actually Google hits for Svarožištь and, way more dubiously, for Сварожищь :mrgreen:

(Seriously though don't trust me too much on the Old Church Slavonic stuff)
 
hrotha said:
Víkingr has always had a relatively small but very committed playerbase. With its emphasis on teamwork and its slow pace, it's never been for everyone. Most mods aren't as successful as cRPG, after all. ^_^
My main point though was that č and ć are absolutely different letters and ć is used for surnames.
Click to expand...
Yes - in Modern Croatian, but not in Old East Slavic. Proto-Slavic *-itjь becomes -ić in Modern Serbo-Croatian, but -ичь/-ičь in Old East Slavic (after some research, I don't think it was **-ичь in Old Church Slavonic either; I think it would have been -ищь/-ištь). We come again to the question of where your character comes from: if he's a Volodimirъ (no matter the spelling), he's East Slavic and uses a patronym in -ičь. I don't know enough about Old Church Slavonic and its immediate descendants (or, well, nieces) to know what the patronym would be if your character was a Croat, though, but personally my money would be on Svarogovištь (at least it seems I'm not completely alone on this, since there's actually Google hits for Svarožištь and, way more dubiously, for Сварожищь :mrgreen:

(Seriously though don't trust me too much on the Old Church Slavonic stuff)
Click to expand...

I would say you are right, I just haven't studied it to it's absolute depths and that's my problem. However it's not just used in Croatia (ić) is the modern standard for all Slavic surnames although the occasional ič does come by. But 90% of the time it is not so.

Volodimir can be used as a name in Croatia but it isn't a Croatian name and neither my character a Croat. I tried to make him an Eastern Slavic Rus. Making him a Croat would not be all that accurate in terms of historical things and the Rus. Considering Croatians migrated very early from the Proto-Slavic lands and were Catholic some 90 years after that.

But thanks for the explenations.
 
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