Now now, let's not be so quick to judge-Austupaio said:
...*sigh*Cernunos said:
Equality, or Freedom ?
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Flin Flon
First of all, it doesn't.Cernunos said:
Absolute freedom often results in the strongest party dominating and limiting the freedom of the masses. For everyone to be able to profit from freedom, equal rights for every individual are required so they may practice said freedom. The two aren't exclusive, but even somewhat required. I guess it all depends on definitions and scenarios, but the OP isn't very informative.
SovietWafflez
Recruit
Gestricius said:
You're too late! MUAHAHAH!...MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!
personal thoughts thou..both are used as tools for brainwashing a populace
Ambalon
Marquis
What is this false dichotomy here? Where's the option to let everyone equally fling ****?
Anyway, the way we face equality, oft attempting to make the unequal equal, is inadequate. On the other hand, giving out your freedom is part of the social contract, so...
Neither equality nor freedom?
Anyway, the way we face equality, oft attempting to make the unequal equal, is inadequate. On the other hand, giving out your freedom is part of the social contract, so...
Neither equality nor freedom?
I personally don't think we can be free without being at least mostly equal, not sure why they have to be mutually exclusive, but alright.
I see all people as being radically different, yet equally valuable. Everyone's good at different things and we all complement each other. If we would all just cooperate a little more/better we could solve a lot of the world's problems, but instead everyone seems to be stuck in the whole 'we need to compete' mindset which isn't going to be sustainable forever. If people have freedom, then we are free to cooperate, so yay.
I see all people as being radically different, yet equally valuable. Everyone's good at different things and we all complement each other. If we would all just cooperate a little more/better we could solve a lot of the world's problems, but instead everyone seems to be stuck in the whole 'we need to compete' mindset which isn't going to be sustainable forever. If people have freedom, then we are free to cooperate, so yay.
Swissky
There is a disputed quote by Rosa Luxemburg that goes :
So I guess we need both.
So I guess we need both.
Cernunos said:
Freedom.
And with my freedom I rise to become a benevolent iron-fisted dictator and force all people to be equal.
Freedom is awesome like that. I wouldn't be able to force people to be equal if I wasn't free to become a dictator.
Eh, people are not equal. That's not what I wish or dread, it's simply an observation. Rights, liberties and wealth beyond basic sustenance are wasted on most people. They just keep living their boring, uninspired, meaningless lives with or without them. That being said, certain kinds of equality - under the law and some level of material equality - have been proven to work as a mechanism that allows the dummies who were just born lucky to be out-competed by those who are superior to them in everything but the birth lottery.
Flin Flon
What's that?kurczak said:
Flin Flon said:
She said rights, liberties and wealth beyond basic sustenance are wasted on most people because they just keep on living their boring, uninspired, meaningless lives regardless of them.
Personally, I feel quite privileged to have the rights, liberties and wealth of basic sustenance to enable me to live a boring, uninspired, meaningless life in which I can do what I want, go where I want and read what I want. I mean, can you imagine if I wasn't fortunate enough to be born with those rights inherent in the system? I'd have to be an uneducated, indentured servant working in the mines if I didn't have those rights! Mining is very dangerous work, certainly not boring, what will all the cave-ins and the CO/CO2 poisoning.
Those people who have to fight for their rights, like gay people or women in oppressed societies, must lead such exciting, inspired, meaningful lives.
Swissky
Are you calling my freedom freedumb? 
Flin Flon said:
The opposite of - to quote the classic - seeing the world, things dangerous to come to, seeing behind walls, drawing closer, finding each other, and feeling. It is a life that either refuses to see challenges, opportunities and potential or when facing them, just shrugs and goes on about its routine. It is basically what the cool kids these days refer to as staying in the comfort zone. It is a refusal to go further, it is being content with what is, instead of pursuing what could be. It is a resignation to and betrayal of life.
Pharaoh X Llandy said:
What is up with this place and people jumping to conclusions all over it? I didn't say or even imply that one must struggle with reaching basic humane living conditions or be oppressed to live a meaningful, inspired, exciting life. On the contrary, I said that equality under the law (not being persecuted for victimless and harmless actions or opinions - such as being a woman, gay, of the "wrong" skin color or ethnicity etc.) and not having to worry about what you are going to eat tonight are prerequisites for living life to its full potential.
However, *goes into grandma mode* back in de old kountrrry....I spent a good part of my life in a totalitarian regime that restricted about all civil liberties as the term is understood in the West. No freedom of press, no freedom of thought, no freedom of movement, no freedom of enterprise. However, it also provided for its
That, sadly, is the human nature for most people. The particular political or social system is irrelevant as long as it satisfies their essential needs. There are no horizons to expand, let alone to conquer. They are just worker bees. Dying as inconsequential as they lived. Cursed with consciousness and fighting it their whole life, retreating to routine and safety. Kidding themselves they matter anyway. They don't.
Cernunos
Banned
@ kurczak, this sounds like a pessimistic/sad vision of human beings, that I tend to follow. but didn't this "system" crumble to some points? Isn't Freedom a greater motivation for improvement, than Equality ? But yeah, freedom probably implies a more "active" view of life to really enjoy it.
Actually, Freedom isn't a motivation, while equality can be. Aw well...
In my short view, equality tend to make lazy people still lazy, and to change hard working people into lazy people. Freedom allows lazy people to stay lazy, and hard working people to get some benefits for them.
@ Jhessail, sure, whatever, I am not as smart as you obviously. Not your equal. But so glad I am free to learn and try to improve myself . I don't think many people give a **** wether you are voting or not anyways...
Actually, Freedom isn't a motivation, while equality can be. Aw well...
In my short view, equality tend to make lazy people still lazy, and to change hard working people into lazy people. Freedom allows lazy people to stay lazy, and hard working people to get some benefits for them.
@ Jhessail, sure, whatever, I am not as smart as you obviously. Not your equal. But so glad I am free to learn and try to improve myself . I don't think many people give a **** wether you are voting or not anyways...
