The Charlie Hebdo attack
- Thread starter masterborn12
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Also Indonesia.
Leonidas300
Banned
It is wrong to affirm that the national parties like the National Front of Marine Le Pen or UKIP are more dangerous than the radical islamists. If you actually read properly the electoral program of these democratic parties you will notice that they don't base their objectives in political correctness, they base them in objectives that should've been added to EU countries long time ago. If you accuse someone about being this and that cos yeh know the media says so... then it is because you don't have self determination and you follow the leftist PC media lies.
Vermillion_Hawk said:
The difference is, with European far-right we're talking about hypothetical threats. With Islamic extremism we're talking about threat and attacks that are actually happening right now.
Europe has not been radicalizing. The only two political subjects of any relevance that might be described as "radical" are UKIP and FN. And the latter has gotten a great deal more mainstream since Marine took over after her father. Even then, both UKIP and FN advocate some sort of civic nationalism. They love to parade and showcase their non-white party members to demonstrate that. They also don't really have anything in common except for their distaste for federalization of Europe. And again, they differ on what is their preferred alternative.
No serious European political entity advocates the kind of ethnic nationalism that was responsible for the second if not both world wars. Yes, there are lumpenproletariat morons spouting their xenophobic bull**** in the comment sections of their favorite tabloid site, but they hold zero political power.
krik said:
Yea somehow u forgot Breivik who was responsible for 77 kills personally.
And yes Europe is Secular but the thing is how long will that last for, if a Right extremist party somehow got in power, you can change that secularism to Fascism
77 kills, 319 injured.
Also he was a lone gunman, not part of an actual organization that is hellbent in killing people to further its goals.
Doesn't make it anywhere more right, but you can't compare the two directly.
Also he was a lone gunman, not part of an actual organization that is hellbent in killing people to further its goals.
Doesn't make it anywhere more right, but you can't compare the two directly.
masterborn12 said:
That's a pointless argument. You could say something like that about anything. Oh, sure Turkey is secular, but what if the islamists somehow got in power?? Oh sure, Sweden is a welfate state, but what if a Thatcherite party somehow got in power? Oh sure Russia is ****ed up, but what if it somehow wasn't? Oh sure I make ridiculous arguments, but what if I somehow didn't?
Cookie Eating Huskarl
Marquis
It'll be a lot more expensive.
I have to say though, when it comes to effective oppression and genocide, we Europeans pretty much mastered the art ages ago. "I was born in the darkness you merely adapted to it" and so on.kurczak said:
I wonder if those terrorists ever even consider what would happen if Europe went full retard, I'm thinking the Middle East would turn into glass in the matter of hours.
Cookie Eating Huskarl
Marquis
If you promise them the oil fields and the Suez canal, they'll probably not glass it. But if we assume genocide was acceptable, genocide would probably happen if we go with your idea of poking the sleeping bear.
Verbeek
kurczak said:
Obviously no serious political entity advocates the same brand of ethnic nationalism, but I'm not talking necessarily about the "serious political entities". I'm talking about the spreading popular support for xenophobic and "nativist" groups which has only been growing in Europe in the past decade, and has been identified as a trend as far back as two decades ago. Whether or not these groups hold significant political power, or for how long they manage to hold it, is ultimately irrelevant to the fact that the constant resurgence and increase in popularity of these parties signifies that they manage to hold some considerable popular support already.
And yes, there's always the minority who will go out and spout blatantly xenophobic or racist political drivel, and it's largely not them that is concerning but rather the numbers of moderate people who are willing to support parties which often include these types of people or have a watered-down version of their ideals, purely on a reactionary basis to some perceived threat from "foreigners". It's exactly what's happening in the Muslim community, except from a different but no less dangerous ideological perspective.
As I've said, the far right in Europe's comeback is not something that's even remotely up for debate. It's been documented extensively in political science and is now becoming one of the more relevant topics in that field. If you're interested, here's some more articles on the subject, although admittedly The Economist, while decent, is not an academic source. If you think the radicalization towards the right in Europe doesn't exist then you're either blind or in willing disbelief.
krik said:
It's the difference between letting a fire burn and pouring gasoline on it. Reacting in such a way to a terror attack only fortifies the battle lines on both sides, which is significantly worse.
No, I just fail to see how that's worse than I dunno, 9/11 or the endless ****ing suicide bombings that still occur over there.masterborn12 said:
Vermillion_Hawk] [quote author=krik said:
It's the difference between letting a fire burn and pouring gasoline on it. Reacting in such a way to a terror attack only fortifies the battle lines on both sides, which is significantly worse.
[/quote] I'm not trying to advocate the far right here, the worst I could see happening in a far right controlled nation is some expulsion of noncitizen muslims. Which would be a travesty but to say it's worse than going out and murdering people, sometimes few sometimes many, it's a real stretch in my mind.
Vermillion_Hawk said:
The only actual far right party is Golden Dawn (and maybe Front National in the 80s). The rest is just misapplying the far right label to scare the voters away. Just because "a lot" (depending on the perspective) people in Europe take issues with the current immigration policies doesn't make them far right. It's just closing eyes before an actual problem - that the integration is now working out as intended - and pretending that calling anyone who is willing to admit the problem or who thinks that "just be more tolerant" is not the only solution imagineable a fascist will do the trick.
