Version 0.27 Development Feedback: Oathbound System

Would you want to use a feature like this?

  • Yes

    Votes: 157 93.5%
  • No

    Votes: 11 6.5%

  • Total voters
    168

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Windyplains

Grandmaster Knight
Before getting too excited over the title, I have to make a couple of things clear.  First, the freelancer system as you've seen it can't work in Silverstag and will not be included.  Second, I have begun talks with Taragoth, the Dev for Freelancer, to help build its next incarnation.

This freelancer system would focus on being more of a mercenary within the immediate service of a lord.  Imagine a setup where you still have a small retinue of soldiers, your companions, but that you still join a lord's army.  There would be no forced attribute or skill progression and you would not be restricted in what you could use in combat.  Instead you are more of a companion for that lord and are paid both a weekly salary as well as a bonus for each enemy dispatched in combat under that lord's banner.  Instead you would have rank determined by your repute based on deeds you have performed.

Repute would be improved by performing quests the Lord sends you and your companions on such as scouting another lord's army, sneaking into a future siege location to sabotage it , procuring supplies or chasing down deserters.  The higher your repute the higher a salary and larger band you can manage.  Eventually this could lead to being knighted or even offered vassalage within that faction if you serve a lord well enough and have a good reputation within that kingdom.

Thoughts?  Is this somewhere folks would like to see me focusing development once troops are done?  I am curious to what others think of this design revamp for freelancer?

Silverstag Wiki: Version 0.27 Development Log

As a recap on what I envision:
You will be able to join the party of a lord (and eventually bandit lords) bringing your companions with you.  Your companions are effectively your little mercenary squad within the lord's larger host.  You will be paid based on your level, your rank within the army, your skill with persuasion, your reputation as a mercenary and finally you'll be compensated for any party skill bonuses you bring.

You will be able to leave the party on unpaid leave (indefinitely) or be sent out on quest-based missions.  When you leave the main party your companions will come along with you so these missions are intended for small squads.  The frequency and type of missions you are sent on will depend upon your rank within the army.  Initially you will receive far less missions because you're a nobody and you'd probably get slaughtered wandering off on your own.  While leading your own mission party you will be able to hire troops as you see fit, but they will be lost upon rejoining your owner's host (they get absorbed).  The intent is to keep your core group down to just you and your companions.

Your equipment choices will be entirely your own.  You will not be given free equipment.  You will be able to collect battlefield loot initially and eventually will gain a larger selection of post-combat loot as well (based on rank).  This extends to your companions as well.

Your period of service will be based upon a contract.  It will have a period of time required so if you take leave that timer will stop.  Missions will not stop that timer as you are still acting under the direction of your contract owner.  The manner in which you account yourself while under contract will change how you gain rank (not experience) and will alter how you are paid.

Ranks (preliminary):
RANKPAYLOOTSPECIAL
Initiate100% BaseBattlefield Loot--
Regular120% BaseSmall choice of post-combat loot.--
Trained140% BaseMedium choice of post-combat loot.          --
Elite170% BaseLarge choice of post-combat loot.Offered a knighthood.
Hedge Knight        350% Base            ----
Elder Knight500% Base--Offered vassalage.
Note: Each rank you gain still receives the benefits of the previous ranks.


Initial Quest Ideas:
[*] Disclaimer: I need to revisit most of this thread to pick up previous suggestions (I didn't have them on hand when I wrote this.)
[*] Deliver message to another lord.
[*] Sneak into a city this lord intends to siege; to poison their wells, sabotage an improvement or capture a noble/lady.
[*] Represent your contract owner in a tournament (that he couldn't attend).
[*] Gather X recruits and bring them back.
[*] Reduce the bandit population around the contract owner's fiefs.
[*] Purchase some cattle and bring back fresh meat. (You'll be given money to purchase them)
[*] Track down an execute a band of deserters.

I've hosted a summary design on what I intend to build for folks can see how it will work and give feedback in advance.  You can get a copy of it here
[spoiler="8/21/2015 Screenshots]
Main%20Interface.PNG

Available%20Tasks.PNG

compensation.PNG

[/spoiler]
 
Two questions that crossed my mind:
1) What sets this apart from being a mercenary for a king?
2) How is the potential of this overshadowing being a mercenary for a king? In other words, are there plans to make this always objectively more rewarding than being a mercenary for a king?
 
sirballington said:
Two questions that crossed my mind:
1) What sets this apart from being a mercenary for a king?
2) How is the potential of this overshadowing being a mercenary for a king? In other words, are there plans to make this always objectively more rewarding than being a mercenary for a king?
That is a good question.  Being a mercenary is more like being a pirate with a letter of marque.  You can go about causing havoc in one kingdom's name against its enemies, but you have no real protection or focus in doing so.  This would be actively becoming a part of a lord's army so you do not need to maintain a large warband yourself.
 
I was not a big fan of the old Freelancer. I did use it on occasion in Floris, however, I didn't like that it took away your control of the party, and the rewards also seemed more meager, than, er, actually freelancing. The game is not necessarily even easier, as lords sometimes make poor decisions, except at the earliest point of getting on your feet. On the other hand, I feel that a new incarnation could be interesting if it had echoing effects later on in the game, and also offered a bit of immediate new content and choices. For example,

At a certain rank, the lord who employs you starts asking for various strategic input, and then may follow through on your advice. Simple A vs B type decisions, often preceded by scout quests and possibly followed by independent raids or missions. Raids vs sieges, following the marshall or not, aggressive or defensive behaviour, when to ask the king to make war or peace.

Serving in the army gives you long-lasting military connections, which influence the game later. Depending on rank, it could include special mercenaries, bonus influence with lords of martial personality, access to armory surplus shops, mercenaries seeking you out more frequently later, and so on.

Of course, there should be pros and cons. Perhaps some similar style bonuses could be set up for merchant and bandit type plays - so that a military history gives you some of the above bonuses, but you lose out on a new, very lucrative caravan mission type for merchants, or raiding mission, hiring merchant bodyguards, quests for dishonorable players to raise up bandit armies in enemy territory, and so on.

In fact, maybe Freelancer should expand beyond just becoming part of a military, and present the players with the choice to instead hire themselves out to a merchant lord's bodyguard, or to a robber knight's band? Access to just one out of three sets of later perks would help it feel more meaningful.
 
To be honest, I am craving for something like this. The possibility to join various groups WITH your whole group would be highly appreciated by me. And I'm not speaking only about lords. Damn, give me an option to join bandits, or, better, manhunters! Or why not some caravan master, riding with his caravan through Calradia.

I would definitely like a feature that allows you to join someone as you could in freelancer, but to be able to use your equip and your troops as well. And of course, there should be some bonuses as mentioned before. You'll join some caravan? Well, you get your pay and your share of loot if someone tries to rob your caravan. But you may also became known to other merchants possibly unlocking new quest and gaining discounts for completing these quests. And there's much more that can be squeezed out of this concept...
 
Pretty much agree with what others said, would love for this to be more than lords and kingdoms. RP wise some character make sense running with the bandits, ect. There are lots of features one could do with this to really expand game-play. The only thing I can say is make sure that the end game is meaningful, if you put in all the work and effort to gain those ranks, when you make it to the top there needs to be a lot of depth & features to really represent your new power and rank.

If you ever played Elder Scrolls, you know what I mean... put in all the effort to reach the top of a faction, only to realize your new rank as leader of them all mounted to only being able to do very little...  :roll:
 
There isn't really bandit lords yet to join which would make it difficult to run that correctly.  I've actually been of the opinion of building a setup where you could affiliate with a bandit camp (as your own war party) and build up prestige there.  The idea would be that this would give you a place to fence your goods, hide cash and store items you don't want to get lost if you're captured.  Yet that is a different system and would need its own feedback thread.
 
Windyplains said:
There isn't really bandit lords yet to join which would make it difficult to run that correctly.  I've actually been of the opinion of building a setup where you could affiliate with a bandit camp (as your own war party) and build up prestige there.  The idea would be that this would give you a place to fence your goods, hide cash and store items you don't want to get lost if you're captured.  Yet that is a different system and would need its own feedback thread.
I like that idea but i want to join bandits army too, and add a scene for visiting the hideout.
 
Windyplains said:
There isn't really bandit lords yet to join which would make it difficult to run that correctly.  I've actually been of the opinion of building a setup where you could affiliate with a bandit camp (as your own war party) and build up prestige there.  The idea would be that this would give you a place to fence your goods, hide cash and store items you don't want to get lost if you're captured.  Yet that is a different system and would need its own feedback thread.

Yes, that sounds interesting. What if Taragoth built the next incarnation of Freelancer with this in mind? If you could co-opt that system, would it make it easier to let merchants and bandits hire you into their factions in the future, instead of the typical military start?
 
Back to Topic ...  :grin:

Eventually this could lead to being knighted or even offered vassalage within that faction if you serve a lord well enough and have a good reputation within that kingdom.

divide et impera ... Eventually you can help your lord to strengthen his position in the realm of his king. Maybe somehow other lords begin to follow him (not only his family) and he can raise up to a claymant of this realm.
 
I think this is an extremely good idea, I usually like to RP quite a bit when i'm in single player and I find the Freelancer system of being a part of a lords army very useful for gaining skill early on and building relationships with nobels without having to do annoying deliver message or upgrade top tier troop quests. It's good to offer people more route's to play the game without having to be a Lord straight off the bat.
 
Windyplains said:
There isn't really bandit lords yet to join which would make it difficult to run that correctly.  I've actually been of the opinion of building a setup where you could affiliate with a bandit camp (as your own war party) and build up prestige there.  The idea would be that this would give you a place to fence your goods, hide cash and store items you don't want to get lost if you're captured.  Yet that is a different system and would need its own feedback thread.

Why do I see ideas from my wall of text ticket on assembla in here? :grin: Glad you liked at least smthing from it :smile:
 
D3monic said:
Windyplains said:
There isn't really bandit lords yet to join which would make it difficult to run that correctly.  I've actually been of the opinion of building a setup where you could affiliate with a bandit camp (as your own war party) and build up prestige there.  The idea would be that this would give you a place to fence your goods, hide cash and store items you don't want to get lost if you're captured.  Yet that is a different system and would need its own feedback thread.

Why do I see ideas from my wall of text ticket on assembla in here? :grin: Glad you liked at least smthing from it :smile:
Because even if I do not disposition tickets immediately I read all of them and try to see how I can build a themed update from ones of a similar idea.  It has been a popular request so folks can almost certainly expect an update devoted to bringing bandit play to life.  I've just been stuck in this troop/item revamp for far too long.  It has held up getting on to the more exciting aspects of feature modding.
 
I never really liked the Original freelancer mod for the following reasons..

  • It didn't seem very rewarding and was quite lacklustre.
  • You had no control over your character's equipment.
  • It didn't give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside your stomach that tells you that your time and effort has actually amounted to achieve something.

What I would have liked to have seen (most of which has been mentioned in the OP and other replies)

  • Instead of being a just another 'soldier' you are a 'companion' to that Lord
    • Meaning you control your equipment and attributes.
    • You build a reputation with your Lord, meaning you can 'rise in power' and hold a position of of authority within the Army
    • You are given awards/accolades/medals/rewards in return for your service which increases your 'position' or 'reputation' within the Realm/Kingdom/Army
    • You are given unique opportunities such as convincing your lord to start his own Kingdom with yourself becoming a part of it.
  • You can control your own little (or large) platoon of troops within the Army (Troops you decide to recruit independently or even assigned to you by your Lord as you rise in position?)

.. but yes I would like to see some form of this within the mod! xD

Obviously this would be extremely time consuming and I suggest to only use my ideas as a reference point for simpler features!
 
I think I'd enjoy the system you're describing, Windy.  Everything you mentioned had me thinking "hey, that would be cool".

I tried  out Freelancer in the AD 1257 mod, joining the crusaders. I stuck around long enough to get promoted to the highest knight class, then left with the armour and horse they gave me :smile:
I'm not sure if it's all Freelancer, or just the version they had in that mod, but when it forcibly equipped me for my ranks, it ignored the strength requirements. As long as I never took my armour off, I got really good armour at really low level. That's really all I remember about it.
 
braingamer said:
I think I'd enjoy the system you're describing, Windy.  Everything you mentioned had me thinking "hey, that would be cool".

I tried  out Freelancer in the AD 1257 mod, joining the crusaders. I stuck around long enough to get promoted to the highest knight class, then left with the armour and horse they gave me :smile:
I'm not sure if it's all Freelancer, or just the version they had in that mod, but when it forcibly equipped me for my ranks, it ignored the strength requirements. As long as I never took my armour off, I got really good armour at really low level. That's really all I remember about it.

I'm sure that Thomo was using an early version of the code with AD 1257, the newest version had the correct requirements ( v1.6 ).

TripleThreat said:
I never really liked the Original freelancer mod for the following reasons..

  • It didn't seem very rewarding and was quite lacklustre.
  • You had no control over your character's equipment.
  • It didn't give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside your stomach that tells you that your time and effort has actually amounted to achieve something.

What I would have liked to have seen (most of which has been mentioned in the OP and other replies)

  • Instead of being a just another 'soldier' you are a 'companion' to that Lord
    • Meaning you control your equipment and attributes.
    • You build a reputation with your Lord, meaning you can 'rise in power' and hold a position of of authority within the Army
    • You are given awards/accolades/medals/rewards in return for your service which increases your 'position' or 'reputation' within the Realm/Kingdom/Army
    • You are given unique opportunities such as convincing your lord to start his own Kingdom with yourself becoming a part of it.
  • You can control your own little (or large) platoon of troops within the Army (Troops you decide to recruit independently or even assigned to you by your Lord as you rise in position?)
 
@TripleThreat, are you inside my head??


Windy and I have begun , (as he stated) talks of integrating a new 'type' of Freelancing into his mod with more freedom for the player and more of a 'feeling' that you are part of something. My biggest problem with our original mod was the lack of realism and a lack of a sense of achievement. A lord would never talk to some low life cannon fodder and the low life cannon fodder would not get told he can go on leave when he asks for it. Anyone with coin in an army can buy better weapons or armor.. anywho, personally I just want to know what you guys think of the idea or if you guys have any other ideas ( within reason) 

-G :mrgreen:
 
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