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The Harry Potter one was mind-blowing tho
OurGloriousLeader said:
I'm not certain what "Flag location changes deterministically based on which team wins" means and don't like either outcome... If it spawns in an advantageous position to the loser of the previous round, they'll be more likely to just camp the flag with a crossfire since the opposing side has an advantage in gear. If it spawns in an advantageous position to the winner, they'll just be more likely to steamroll, since they have an advantage in both flag position and gear.
Sure, it will probably cause the disadvantaged team to just run for the flags in an effort to make it before the "defending" team can position itself to the best of its ability, but my expectations are it will just result in lengthened haphazard encounters where teams keep sending more and more people into the first engagement in an effort to get kills. This might make it more pleasant for the casual viewer, but it would to a certain degree take away from the matches' tactical enjoyment.
Well, I could be wrong. Just conjecture.
OurGloriousLeader said:
I've considered quite a few systems, but I think the more objectives you add, the more the game will come about avoiding each other and winning through taking the flags (or destroying the catapults or whatever). The nice thing about having only a single one is that it forces a showdown. Even if you have defenders and attackers though, that will still have flag fights occur as the attackers will have to force the defenders off the flag.
I think with an initially slow raise time on the flag, teams will focus more on holding and taking important positions around it for the first minute or two and only once the raise time increases focus more on the flag, so I would expect less flag fighting with this system, not more since I would expect that some of the positions around the flag will be considered critical enough that teams have to fight for them.
Also when warband is played well it often isn't about the flags at all, usually flags only come into it to force a fight where you want or where your opponent wants, if someone is actually winning on flags you're doing something wrong.
We might as well move to Conquest rather than making Battle so complicated.OurGloriousLeader said:
Shemaforash said:Ceasar said:
Shema ur irrelevant anyways
Ceasar said:Shema ur irrelevant anywaysShemaforash said:Ceasar said:
Lord Rich said:
Although sure, in most cases the winning team is winning down to kills rather than flags, at the moment when sufficiently equal teams are facing each other there are almost always several rounds where flag presence is the deciding factor. As players have got better at surviving, and large numbers of cav becomes the norm (who are often more survivable just because they can run away from poor situations), rounds ending due to time are common enough. It's compounded by many teams determined to establish flag presence as early possible, putting pressure on, and while everything else is all about engagements, it can still end up with a mad 30 second dash into the grinder on the flag, possibly in some metaphor for the futility of conflict. I'd guess maybe 3 out of 8 rounds end up like this on open maps right now.
I guess it would come down to the balancing of how slowly the flag is raised initially, I'm actually warming to the idea of having 4 mins to fight it out, I just like that at the moment you can end up with fights nowhere near the flag, whereas with an instant flag, even if certain positions end up being fought over instead of the actual flag spawn, it's probably going to define the engagements more than we see now. Worth a try though, don't think anyone thinks the current system is optimal.
I think you would still get fights that are off the flag, for instance in some cases a team might be able to cut off the other team from getting to the flag and force an engagement earlier. Verloren is an example of that since if it comes up in market or attackers spawn teams will often engage well away from the flag to 'ambush' the other team and fight in a more favourable location.
My plan in terms of raise time was basically to increase the raise time after each minute has passed. For each minute you stand on it, it would raise the flag a set percentage:
4:00 -> 3:00 - 30%
3:00 -> 2:00 - 60%
2:00 -> 1:00 - 90%
1:00 -> 0:00 - 120% (This is our normal raise time since it usually takes 50 seconds to fully raise)
So if you managed to spawn instantly and go on the flag instantly, you could raise it 30% in the first minute, then a further 60% in the second minute. So even under ideal conditions you wouldn't be able to get the flag fully raised until a bit into the third minute of the round. Actual play will likely mean you will lose about 30 seconds or more of time on the flag initially, so it would be later into the third minute of play for the earliest possible flag captures and that also assumes you can successfully fight your opponent and dedicate someone to being sat on the flag. But basically the flag raise time would not be like now until the final minute. This is obviously quite open to balance and it may be that different values work out better, just picking a linear increase as a simple starting point.
The final change of the five I have mentioned will also remove quite a lot of the scenarios where one team manages to basically kill every enemy but then the final enemy jumps on the flag and steals the win. It will also allow final duels to continue for a bit more and reduce slightly the advantage of having the flag up higher at the end of the round (since it only gives your opponent less time and does not instantly grant you the win).
My plan in terms of raise time was basically to increase the raise time after each minute has passed. For each minute you stand on it, it would raise the flag a set percentage:
4:00 -> 3:00 - 30%
3:00 -> 2:00 - 60%
2:00 -> 1:00 - 90%
1:00 -> 0:00 - 120% (This is our normal raise time since it usually takes 50 seconds to fully raise)
So if you managed to spawn instantly and go on the flag instantly, you could raise it 30% in the first minute, then a further 60% in the second minute. So even under ideal conditions you wouldn't be able to get the flag fully raised until a bit into the third minute of the round. Actual play will likely mean you will lose about 30 seconds or more of time on the flag initially, so it would be later into the third minute of play for the earliest possible flag captures and that also assumes you can successfully fight your opponent and dedicate someone to being sat on the flag. But basically the flag raise time would not be like now until the final minute. This is obviously quite open to balance and it may be that different values work out better, just picking a linear increase as a simple starting point.
The final change of the five I have mentioned will also remove quite a lot of the scenarios where one team manages to basically kill every enemy but then the final enemy jumps on the flag and steals the win. It will also allow final duels to continue for a bit more and reduce slightly the advantage of having the flag up higher at the end of the round (since it only gives your opponent less time and does not instantly grant you the win).
Yeah I was thinking of Verloren as already one of the maps where it's common to use the flag spawn as a way to get in front of the enemy rather than fighting on the flag. Fort of Honour also. But alternatively Sandiboush would likely see more focused fights, although flag spawns could be rebalanced I guess.
I wonder also if the range of flag influence could be changed slightly, right now you have to be fighting practically inside the banner half the time. If the area was larger, a la Conquest size in Battlefield, this would make the flag height advantage even less...advantageous.
I wonder also if the range of flag influence could be changed slightly, right now you have to be fighting practically inside the banner half the time. If the area was larger, a la Conquest size in Battlefield, this would make the flag height advantage even less...advantageous.
Leonemo said:
I have actually already made a mod which incorporates some of the things mentioned but not others, the flag system is something it already covers. You can have between 1 and 5 flags on a map, it doesn't have to be the same number for every map. I'm not sure 1 flag would be a good idea, but I included the option just for simplicities sake.
EDIT: Just realised you asked me to recommend a number, I would say 2 would be viable on small maps and 3-4 on medium to larger maps. 5 Might work on a particularly large map.
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