What the hell?? Fierdsvain has 10000 troops

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Eschaton

So I'm near the endgame where it's just me who has half the map and the Fierdsvain who owns half the map...they waged war on me but I have a nice amount of very tough CKOs now, so I thought, what the hell, let's do it...so they were sieging Sarleon (one of my towns), and I've had no problems with sieges so far, easily repelling 2000 men with 200-300 of my own. I noticed there was an awful lot of lords though, so I quickly dashed into town, and as they went in to start the siege, I saw this:



What?????????

This number isn't a product of a unique spawn prisoner train capture. It's the 60 or so lords in the Fierdsvain put together; and even though some of them have no fiefs, they still field 60-90 troops. Put it all together...10000 troops in total, and that's not even all their lords.

How am I supposed to win the game now? Even if I had 200 Demonic Magni in my army it wouldn't work, because 1) of battle advantage, I can only have around 17 troops on the field whilst the Fierdsvain can have around 170 odd, and 2) Sarleon happens to be poor to defend in the first place, because unlike most towns with a narrow entrance to the ladder, Sarleon has a big hole in the wall where troops can just spill in.

The fact they can have so many lords is very upsetting to game balance. I only have 7 or 8 lords because it would be impossible to keep all lords happy as when defeated they lose a point of favour, and they get defeated incredibly often, thanks to unique spawns.

I feel like this is a reason to enable cheats but I don't want to lose the achievements by getting the cheater achievement.

Thoughts anyone?
 
should have made a pimped out knight hood order before. 200 knights of the trained by lethaldurien and 5 million gold investment would be able to combat some fierdsvain rabble
 
Malkav said:
My best advice would be to kill them in smaller groups.

Good idea, but the idea is I don't want to lose Sarleon :smile:

Also, given about two weeks, they would just regenerate all those troops again. There must be a better way.

Also the Noldor don't stand a chance against them. Aeldarian and Ithy are down to 100 or so troops each because Dread Legion spawned 3 or 4 times in two months so I lured Maltise into them and they're all used up.
 
Say goodbye to Sarleon?  :cry:  :grin:

Wait iˇve got an idea, siege one of their castles or try to raze one of their villages, and if you are lucky, they will go after you, and then leave to do something else :grin:
 
Eschaton said:
Also, given about two weeks, they would just regenerate all those troops again. There must be a better way.
1. Say goodbye to Sarleon
2. Kill them in smaller groups
3. Capture the lords
4. Throw them in prison
5. Throw the key away

They wouldn't regenerate all those troops again. Guaranteed.
 
Do you know how to edit scenes?

One of the problems I find in this game, is that some of the castles/towns are not really strongholds, they are just ramps guys fight on.  If you know how to edit a scene you can make some pretty cool Forts to defend. The catch 22 is, you have to take them as well.  Only castles and towns with siege towers can have siege towers, this is hard coded and without access to the module system files you can't add new ones, so towns with ladders always have ladders, towns with siege towers always need/have siege towers. 

Some may say this is an exploit, I disagree, anything you build is also something you will have to conquer later on in other games. Scene creating can be fun, but is very tedious.  Check out the Forge for some tutorials, or you could even check out some of the OSP scenes available, there are some really cool ones out there.

The OSP's may have some simple text editing, it's been awhile since I have done it. Other than that its just replacing scene files with new one.  Make sure you keep a copy of the vanilla files just in case you replace the wrong one. 
 
If you have some extremely good archers, you could pick off a few from range, retreat, and repeat. It'll take forever, but you'll get it done if you're persistant.
 
Eschaton said:
The fact they can have so many lords is very upsetting to game balance. I only have 7 or 8 lords because it would be impossible to keep all lords happy as when defeated they lose a point of favour, and they get defeated incredibly often, thanks to unique spawns.

Thoughts anyone?


You can't win with 7-8 Lords, even if the Fierdsvain numbers are reduced you will still be heavily outnumbered. Usually in the end game, the final war is determined when the marshal forces collide somewhere on the map, but in your case you don't have a chance vs a 10k stack.

Give up Sarleon for now and go hunt some of their isolated Lords and start capturing/recruiting the ones who have good relations with you.
 
Wow....that's a nice unique wtf screenshot I'd never thought I'd see...10.000! That's just hilarious!

In any case, the above situation is why I recommend keeping 3-4 factions alive to prevent this, and rushing the map once you think you can go for large-scale war.
If you give the PC too much time (1 month or more), then that's what happens. The largest army I've ever fought was 2-3k strong only (so about 1:1 vs mine).

Actually it should be such a huge delightful battle to play with such numbers...alas it's not fun on Warband.

Good luck with the campaign!
 
It's not really a balancing problem. As you defeat other kingdoms, the lords from those kingdoms will want to join another kingdom, if you do not make any lords join yours, they will all join one of the remaining kingdoms.

Btw, you want good-natured/honorable lords. (The ones you gain relation with, when your honor increases.)
You do not lose relation with those lords, when assigning a fied to another lord, or even if they lose a battle. You can easily have 20-30 lords endgame and never lose relation with any of them.
Just stay clear of any lord, that sounds angry, mean, opportunistic or warloving, when you talk to them. 
 
Bravado said:
Eschaton said:
Also, given about two weeks, they would just regenerate all those troops again. There must be a better way.
1. Say goodbye to Sarleon
2. Kill them in smaller groups
3. Capture the lords
4. Throw them in prison
5. Throw the key away

They wouldn't regenerate all those troops again. Guaranteed.

Problem with that is they tend to escape most of the time I defeat them. And even if I do take them prisoner they escape after a period of time (in a town with prisoner tower), or the Fierdsvain will ask for them back for a price, and I'll lose honour if I don't give em back. They have 59 lords, and many of them have 100, 200, 300 troops.

I managed to defeat all the other factions without any lords at all, it's just the Fierdsvain that are ridiculous. They seem to field more troops than average compared to other factions...even early on in the game.

Rezialn said:
If you have some extremely good archers, you could pick off a few from range, retreat, and repeat. It'll take forever, but you'll get it done if you're persistant.

I think I'll be doing just that. However there's always that risk of losing one from a stray arrow or bolt.

Vades said:
Do you know how to edit scenes?

One of the problems I find in this game, is that some of the castles/towns are not really strongholds, they are just ramps guys fight on.  If you know how to edit a scene you can make some pretty cool Forts to defend. The catch 22 is, you have to take them as well.  Only castles and towns with siege towers can have siege towers, this is hard coded and without access to the module system files you can't add new ones, so towns with ladders always have ladders, towns with siege towers always need/have siege towers. 

Some may say this is an exploit, I disagree, anything you build is also something you will have to conquer later on in other games. Scene creating can be fun, but is very tedious.  Check out the Forge for some tutorials, or you could even check out some of the OSP scenes available, there are some really cool ones out there.

I do indeed know fully well how to edit scenes, as I have been doing so in my own mod I've been working on for vanilla Warband in adding 3 additional factions. That's an idea, but I still only have 17 troops on the siege ramp vs 177...17 highly elite troops, but 17 nonetheless.

shoshuro said:
You can't win with 7-8 Lords, even if the Fierdsvain numbers are reduced you will still be heavily outnumbered. Usually in the end game, the final war is determined when the marshal forces collide somewhere on the map, but in your case you don't have a chance vs a 10k stack.

Give up Sarleon for now and go hunt some of their isolated Lords and start capturing/recruiting the ones who have good relations with you.

Well the problem is I have about 30 lords in my court waiting to join me, but none of them are friendly with the current lords I have, and they'll all start hating me if I do so. I don't have any more fiefs to give them either because I've given all the castles and towns to the 8 lords.

Fire_and_Blood said:
It's not really a balancing problem. As you defeat other kingdoms, the lords from those kingdoms will want to join another kingdom, if you do not make any lords join yours, they will all join one of the remaining kingdoms.

Btw, you want good-natured/honorable lords. (The ones you gain relation with, when your honor increases.)
You do not lose relation with those lords, when assigning a fied to another lord, or even if they lose a battle. You can easily have 20-30 lords endgame and never lose relation with any of them.
Just stay clear of any lord, that sounds angry, mean, opportunistic or warloving, when you talk to them. 

This doesn't work for me. In my game, Lord Eric apparently is 'honourable' because his relationship with me goes up by 1 every few days gradually from -86 to -70 (he was pissed I was dishing out fiefs to old D'Shar lords). And he's not the only 'honourable' lord that gets pissed when I hand out fiefs. For my game it looks more like lords from a certain faction like only certain lords from their own old factions.

If all else fails, I'll spend the next hour pressing Alt+F4 and knocking out every attacker one by one. I wouldn't even count this as cheating as there is no way the Fierdsvain, if it was a human player, could field that many lords. Also, they would just go home and regenerate all those troops.

I don't like the way you 'have' to not 'waste time'. I enjoy taking my time in the game, and I don't think it's something the AI should be able to take an incredible advantage of.

 
Why do they have 60 lords in the first place, while you have only 10?
It seems you screwed up recruiting the disgruntled lords of the fallen kingdoms. Of course you cannot hold against such odds.
 


That's quite many of them  :???:

However, All factions have the same things in common which are Lords/Lady, King/Queen and Marshal.

Without Marshal, it is impossible to assemble large army and I heard that if King/Queen is captured, the relation
between ruler and vassals may be decreased rapidly (I am not sure if it is true for PoP but it is still worth to try)

Good luck in the fight. May the force be with you.  :wink:
 
iskar said:
Why do they have 60 lords in the first place, while you have only 10?
It seems you screwed up recruiting the disgruntled lords of the fallen kingdoms. Of course you cannot hold against such odds.

See above for logistical reasons I can't recruit new lords.
 
You can - divide and conquer.

If the siege hasn´t progressed much yet there´s plenty of time to leave the castle, hurry for your closest stronghold, empty it´s garrison and fill Sarleon up with rescue troopers to straighten the odds a bit.

If you´re lucky, you´ll be even able to lure a few of the more hateful lords away killing them off on your own. All it needs is a single 50men lord following you just outside gangbang range of the full horde - 200+ CMKHO´s should be easily able to kill off 500-600 Fierdswine at a time.

If you haven´t meddled with the occult, all it takes is to defeat some 250 troopers to ward off the inital siege. So the key to do this is to lower battlesize to it´s minimum. Which means you´ll end up against 24 lords. Knock out as many as possible by vicious fleeing and shooting the sods, or if you´re good enough, block the chokepoint and skewer them.

Screw the honor loss of rejecting ransom for imprisoned lords. You can easily outgain that by having a high enough prisoner skill AND not capturing every single frigging lord but only those with huge armies or a certain amount of annyoing specials, like 150 Blademasters or 200 Western Knights or whatever annoys you.

Keep the remaining lords with easier to defend troops because you want to grind prisoners, honor and loot off them.

The winner is to keep their Koningur imprisoned and their marshall defeated. He won´t be marshall any longer after he´s defeated and without a present monarch a new one won´t be elected.

Afterwards, take a couple of towns off them - that will make the vast manority of their lords landless and even weaker.

Great fun to be had out of your game.
 
Eschaton said:
Well the problem is I have about 30 lords in my court waiting to join me, but none of them are friendly with the current lords I have, and they'll all start hating me if I do so. I don't have any more fiefs to give them either because I've given all the castles and towns to the 8 lords.

I have more lords on my side, but still the last remaining faction has more. I figured I could just take those disloyal quarrelsome lords who end up in my court and not give them any fief. That should deny their troops to the enemy and give me an extra 60/70 troops per lord. If they betray me, I'll just lose them and those troops again, but then I'm not any worse off then I was in the first place. Aside from being likely to betray you, are there any other downsides to bad-tempered lords who don't like you all that much?
 
noosers said:
The winner is to keep their Koningur imprisoned and their marshall defeated. He won´t be marshall any longer after he´s defeated and without a present monarch a new one won´t be elected.

This, this is the piece of information I was looking for! I didn't know that marshalls couldn't be elected if the monarch was imprisoned. Logically it wouldn't be able to happen but I wasn't sure if this was true in-game as well.

Thanks noosers.
 
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