It's been a long time, Pendor (Possible spoilers)

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Argeus the Paladin

Grandmaster Knight
A long, long time ago in a place far, far away, I was a Pendorian. Been a king and all, because that's what hip players do, right? Due to a certain incident involving a certain board that does not warrant repeating, however, I'd sworn off Pendor and thought I'd never be back again.

Four years, many happenstances and a whole lot (as in a LOT) of growing-up to do later, I found myself accidentally dragged back into Saxondragon and the team's world again courtesy of a close friend. I am awed and amazed to find so many things has changed, for better or worse (mostly better, but we'll get to that later). So far, I've spent upward of 3000 days over the course of two RL months in three separate savegames in the New and Improved Pendor (TM) (Which has the effect of, among others, wrecking my social life and work, but that's a small price to pay).

My thoughts so far, both good and bad, are:

- Music: Some new music tracks are great (Jamaican Rum sticks out, as do Lind Erebros' Noldorin theme), some not quite so (certain generic battle themes whose name eludes me doesn't have quite the same feel as the others. Possibly a personal preference and nothing else, though).
- New troops, new factions, new items, new aesthetics, etc.: 

The first thing I noticed is that there are many, many great changes and additions. New hi-res armors are a joy to behold (I'm looking at you, Full Plate Armor/Asp Armor/whatever it is that Wolfbode wears). Bearclaw Berserkers are awesome, as are the armor they wear (Though that does beg the question: If the MM barbarians have the tech necessary to make etched plate armor in the thousands, why are they barbarians again?).

At the same time, there are also many low-res armor and equipment (everything Noldor that isn't horses, the Rune Armor, Longsword or Runesword could use improvement in one way or another. The Enchanted Shield, for instance, is horribly low-res while the Noble Armor is just distorted. Same with the Jatu Lamellar. I guess that is a problem encountered during porting?)

New items are plentiful and nice to experiment with, though I guess the focus was much, much more on swords than anything else (Ebony swords of DOOM come to mind). Said Ebony, unfortunately, also means Noldor gear are more or less outclassed (Strange Ebony Saber > Noldor Rune/Longswords as I've found out. Not a good thing that they tend to be used by my enemies) I personally wouldn't mind more blunts, pierces and axes, because by mid-late game that's what you'll be using a lot of, especially blunt for obvious reasons.

KO sergeants: Love them for the most part. They add another tier of strategizing and depth to the orders, and some of them are almost too cool to live on this sinful earth (Eventide Ghilmen, for instance), though some are meh (I used to think Shadow Legion Marinae are awesome, until I took a Bearclaw Berserker in the face. Axes beat lances indeed.)

- New features: Another thing well done. I personally LOVE the minor faction sneak-attacks (If you time it right - if - it becomes easy exp for you and your folks, especially if the other guy is Wolfbode).

KHO quests make the world that much more immersive. The GM quest is the pinnacle of epic and pretty much means if you aren't shooting for aesthetics there is no reason not to deck yourself, Siggy, Freddy and maybe Kaverra in Lordly Full Plate Armor (Lordly Ebony Platemail for yourself) + Lordly Hourglass Gauntlet + Lordly Eventide Helm combo for 70+/90+.

I found CKO more questionable though, as are the Knight Commander quest. Suddenly the game becomes way easier than it should be: 100+ Order troops, free of charge, at your beck and call is more than most lord without a crown on his head can handle (aside from a few knight-killer lords - Caliph Bahman and the Vanskerry Jarl guy, and even these aren't that much likely to win). The possibility that the survivor of THAT company would join you after you win is just the icing of the cake.

That and the auto-spawn troops mean that now KO troops aren't that rare and special any more. I remember back in 3.01, I once rode with a small (as in less than a dozen) KotF and felt awesome about myself, or "Run - don't walk" at the mere sight of Syla Uzas and his immortal army of Immortals or stare in horror as Boris' Ravens single-handedly destroy my garrison with no real way of fighting back. Not the case any more when I can have more immortals than one of the scariest special spawns in all of Pendor.

Case in point: In my current game running at day 1100 I've got 200 immortals, 30 KotL and 100 SLC without anything to use them on (roleplaying a honorable, loyal Roman Cincinatus crossed with Elendil - as in 100 Noldor relation all day everyday) while I almost *never* recruit nobles aside for a certain time I spent ~8500 on 17 nobles to help kill the bloody snake stronghold. That's almost overkill for anything that isn't led by Demonic Magni, Eyegrim or Maltise: my army of 200 PMAA, 200 Immortals and 100 SLM (SLM, not SLC) tore apart the rogue Barclay general's army before the Immortals even spawn (150 Battlesize). Maybe a "No nobles, EVER" playthrough is in order?

(Oh, and just in case someone says "Now try Elacrai": It's meant to be a hopeless boss fight, and as much as I'd like to neglect my job there's a certain limit, and I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice the entirety of my social life trying to crack open a nut made of unobtainium-adamantium alloy containing stuff man isn't meant to know.)

Certain new Warband features also interferes with balance: For instance, Instant Noldor, Just Add Lethaldiran As Lord. Enough said. No point in gemming (People call them cabbages now, apparently?) Noldor adventurer, EVER. Speaking of which, with such a thing called ebony weapons and Noldor tourneys, there's seemingly (as in, my personal opinion) no point in runed weapons any more unless you want to make an obscenely powerful character that has one of everything under the heaven.

As a closing comment, I realize most of the things I've mentioned here may sound like either entitled whining, but I assure you they aren't: I very much appreciate the work everyone has done on the project, and am extremely glad to find that other people who weren't around back in the day continuing on it against all odds. Always have, always will. The mod is not perfect: Nothing manmade is. But this mod have always been and perhaps will continue to be the first among the imperfects and the closest to absolute flawlessness for many years to come.
 
Welcome back!
This thread made me more thankful for the latest version.

Recently I found out that a lot of the untitled soundtracks come from an old medieval-strategy called Knights of Honor. I'd never know how they did it though because the file type the music was put in was really weird...
 
Simply check the credits in your module folder and you´ll know the origin of every piece of music.

Welcome back, Argeus!

Once you pop, you´re hooked and forever spooked.

200 PMMA and 200 Immortals and 100 SLM and you´re complaining that you aren´t scared of anything anymore? You´ve pretty much beat the game anyways beeing able to field 500 men and shouldn´t be scared of anything anymore. All that´s left is to either rush the map or restart from scratch.

The availability of honor troops has been reduced though there are still ways to obtain a halfton of them but well, wether or not you use them is up to you and noone else. E.g. I´ve got like 700 noble recruits in the pool in my current 1,5k+ day game.

They aren´t needed at all. And I´m too much of a miser to spend 500gc on a single recruit, even with having 600k+ in the treasury.

But a nice assessment and great to hear again from you.
 
Okay, light-hearted debate coming up:

200 PMMA and 200 Immortals and 100 SLM and you´re complaining that you aren´t scared of anything anymore? You´ve pretty much beat the game anyways beeing able to field 500 men and shouldn´t be scared of anything anymore. All that´s left is to either rush the map or restart from scratch.

That's not really the point, TBH. The point I'm trying to make is how *easy* it is to amass 200 Immortals at 300+ Honor. Not even going into the fact that Empire Knights are a dime a dozen and every Noldor/Snake Cultist party worth their salt would tow around several, you have many ways you can get these guys on your side that are even easier than just prisoner rescue them had it been possible.

Case in point: In that savegame I also have a troop of 93 SLC - used to be 120+; the difference being the casualties in the Snake Cult Stronghold siege. Every single of those SLC were Knight Commandeered (Pun, not typo) or Bounty'd, which means essentially free (except for a 1200+ layout for the former each, but at that point fifty thousand denars is chump change). The only reason I stopped getting more is I was running a 20000 denar deficit every week (Because Sarleon deserves 1000 elite troops garrison just because I can). The best part? You can start doing this from early-mid game, at about the point you start politicking for fun and profit.

Both of these translate into, "There's no reason not to run around with an all-Order Knight party from mid-game onwards (Assuming you are doing some heavy fighting)" (Even more so with 14 Surgery). Upkeep might be an issue since a mounted Order Knight cost more than double that of a top-tier faction commoner troop, but 10 SLC is objectively *better* than 20 Legionnaires against most enemies (Not true for all Orders, of course, but the force multiplier is there). Gets even worse when we go into the Totally-Not-Noldor-Twilight-Knight CKOs.

Also shrine/cathedral is objectively overpowered. Enough said. You don't even have to build them most of the time!

If I could change something (I can't, by the way) I'd make it so that the knight commander quest (i) yield a much lower number of knights, and (ii) has a chance of giving you Balanced/Masterwork/Reinforced/Lordly faction gear (and/or a Qualis Gem) instead. In fact, I'd change it so that each Order quest that can give you Order knights and sergeants will have a chance to grant you gear rather than people.

To sum it up, my philosophy since day one is "The underdog shall have an use". It's not a serious problem as it is - while commoners are inferior a non-noble army is still VERY viable (Fierdsvain Berserker/Empire Gladiator/Sarleon Halberdier/D'Shar Scorpion Assassins + Ravenstern Rangers work surprisingly well against mostly every non-spawn, for one. The latter shoot everything down, and the former mercilessly chop down everything threatening the latter). I would love to see noble troops being much rarer and valuable. Like almost on a Noldorin level.
 
Argeus the Paladin said:
In fact, I'd change it so that each Order quest that can give you Order knights and sergeants will have a chance to grant you gear rather than people.

In my last game while doing bounty quests for the Eventides, i got in return a lordly eventide plate when i asked the guard to collect the reward. In other cases i got troops or the helmet, so it is random.

As far as the game goes if you want to make it harder you can add restrictions on how you play ie:

- no points in leadership, no point in INT, only use mercs etc.
 
The bounty quest IS random AFAIK: You can get gear, knights or sergeants or none at all. The Knight Commander quest isn't: You'll always get some of your survivors.

Again, the point I'm making has nothing to do with actual difficulty or self-imposed challenge, but more like how easily available order knights are to people who are playing the game normally: Doing quests, building up villages and towns and founding KO chapter houses. 

(On a side note, no-INT, no-CHA build means massive Noldor tourney gear-hoarding and riding around knocking bandits unconscious in your lonesome. It might not be viable reuniting Pendor with that, but it WILL be fun. Not in the Dwarf Fortress sense, fortunately.)
 
You´re deserving a medal for mentioning Dwarf Fortress Fun most eloquently in one sentence with Warband:razz:oP.

A normal game - playing 1k+ day games isn´t considered normal by some people, otherwise you´re pretty precise and correct with your observations - noble troops and knighthood troopers are pretty easy to amass, especially the Empire Knights are a dime a dozen.

Though things can look quite differently if the Empire has a strong marshall and is lucky with the SNC spawns.
 
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