[Werewolf] Crusade on Castle Mengelberg, (Werewolves Win!)

Llandy, that was very helpful, thank you. And I quite like your stance on the vote issue.

Ativan said:

Now read my question again, please. Why does this lower your suspicion about Sheep but Calodine doesn't get the same treatment?

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Why should it? Cal wasn't the target of any lynch attempt yesterday.

Context matters. This is why separating the quote above and this one doesn't make sense. I am asking where you put Sheep in this scenario. Your are suspecting Nipple of being scummy, that's fine but is he a packmate of Sheep in this scenario?

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I don't know. I don't care. I don't hunt packs, I hunt wolves. When I make associations between players to hunt, I only do it with dead proven wolves.

So there is Tuckles/Cal/Ativan pack and there is Tuckles/Cal/Sheep pack. What I am trying to say here is that the second pack doesn't make sense (Cal and Sheep in the same pack). I hope it is clear now but I guess the answer is the same: "You Cal trying to lynch Sheep doesn't exclude the possibility that you're packmates."

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Again, I don't look at pack possibilities. I don't believe you can successfully hunt the wolves doing that. I never could.

Pharaoh Llandy said:

me] The other potential scenario I see happening is that Sheep will wait for Adaham to get to 4 votes and then switch his vote to Adaham (just like he did during the Tuckles lynching)... [/quote] Just to clarify said:

Xardob said:

Adaham, I'm up for lynching either Cal, Ativan or CW. Point who and I'll start thinking of something. Unless you want me to help you get lynched. I can be of some use there as well.

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You are supposed to send these things in PMs at night, silly wolf.

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Silly is me having to deal with the ridiculous claim that me and Adaham are packmates. Again. I've lost count of how many times this happened. And no one has ever been correct with that particular accusation. The only game we played on the same pack was one of the few this wasn't brought up.

Adaham said:

@X-Man:

I'll probably make some LoS kind of thing about Cal, Ativan and CW (if I find the time), so I can put them into order of suspiciousness for myself. Each one of them has stuff that can be said about them. I'd like to know who you think would be the best guess of these three.

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I see CW with an outside possibility of being a wolf. If we weren't under so much pressure to lynch a wolf, I wouldn't mind risking her. As things stand, I'd prefer to leave her for later.

At least one of Ativan and Cal is a wolf, maybe both. I honestly can't decide who's more likely. But the more important question is who we can lynch. Do we have the vote to go for either one? We need five votes, and we have mine and yours. Sheep is going to vote for whoever gets him out of the noose, if he bothers to show up. Where are we going the get the other two? I don't trust Pilgrim to lynch a wolf. Llandy seems too set on her own suspicions to change her mind. Can we get Nipple's vote?

Our best chance would be to push the village into stalemate and hope someone from the other side will cave to avoid a no lynch. Most likely, whoever we can get five votes on is the one less likely to be a wolf.

Pharaoh Llandy said:

My first reaction to the whole Tuckles thing was "WTF, Xardob?!" because he was the one pushing the hardest for the lynching (going so far as to claim that "Tuckles is a wolf and anyone who thinks otherwise is his packmate") To me, them's fighting words. He was basically implying that he was going to be suspicious of anybody who disagreed with his decision on Tuckles. Which is fair enough, suspicion is natural. But the way he did it raised a big fat WTF with me, and that's one of the reasons I bumped him up to #1 suspect.

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That was just me pushing hard for the lynch. At that point, you either pressure everyone to vote your way or you see someone else get lynched. You shouldn't take it as a comment from me on anyone who didn't suspect Tuckles.



And now let's go for the main topic of my post. I want to lynch Pilgrim. Why? Because I have a hunch (or two). So, before I actually make the case against him, I want to know under what circumstances would everyone be willing to vote him.
Cal, Nipple, would either of you be willing to vote him if a reasonable case was made?
Ativan, is there any scenario you don't end the day voting Sheep?
Adaham, it's only a hunch, but I think it's a better option than failing to lynch either Cal or Ativan. Would you be wiiling to try or do you think it's better to get your role exposed?

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I'm trying to re-read the thread between studying for an exam tomorrow and composing something for a music class,  but our internet keeps cutting out, so I will quickly respond to a few things and then try to find a place where I will actually be able to focus more on this.

Adaham said:

The fact YOU - Mr. Alpha-Mega-Wolf - Ativan...

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Interesting phrasing with the use of "Alpha Wolf." The only way you would know if there is one is if you were actually a wolf. Slipping, Adaham?

I guess what saved you last night, was your dispute with Cal, probably the wolves didn't want to risk Cal being framed. Instead Soot was the best choice. No one suspected him and he was suspicious of Xardob and Adaham - perfect framing material.

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Why on Earth would have killing me over the night caused Cal to be framed? The whole kerfuffle was caused by misunderstandings and ended peacefully (roughly). The argument was not a threat to Cal, so killing me off due to it would have made no sense.

Adaham said:

If it was malicious, Sheep would have constructed much more out of it. And if he was a wolf, I seriously think he would have read the whole thing more careful. Despite what some think, I believe that wolves pay much closer attention to every single bit that's written than innocents.

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First, why do you think Sheep would have constructed more out of it as a wolf? He says that this is only his second game, and when I looked up the first one he played in, he was innocent. Do you not think that he could just be an inexperienced wolf?

Second, why do you think that wolves pay much closer attention to every single bit that is written than innocents? I would believe that a wolf-hunting innocent worth his salt would want to analyze everything to try an pick out the wolves. As a wolf, reading closely to what people think of you is rather important, but I know in times I have played a wolf in the past (despite a lot of those games happening early on when I was less familiar with the game), I found myself focusing less on the big picture in terms of what people have posted and more on going with the flow and being "laid-back" until there was something to latch onto which I could attempt to convince people is wolfy about a player. It all boils down to depending on the player, who is in the game, and what is happening in the game. This sounds like a convenient excuse.

Xardob said:

I'm only saying that Nipple didn't change his vote because he didn't want to decide who would be lynched. He wanted to leave the decision to the rest of the village. He was fine with either one being lynched.

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Oh please, I'm perfectly fine with deciding who gets lynched and defending my actions the next day (if still alive) if it comes to that. I already explained that I wanted more discussion from everyone and to not have a Sheep wagon right after switching my vote to him (had that happened). In any case, it sounds like you are suggesting that if I voted for Sheep he would have been lynched, but since I didn't, Tuckles got lynched, which means my vote was the one that "made the decision" anyways.  From your posts earlier in the day, it seems that you wanted me to switch my vote over to Sheep. Why is that?

Pharaoh Llandy said:

I've even toyed with the idea that Sheep is the Alpha wolf and Adaham, in a normal wolf role, is trying to throw himself onto the fire so that the wolves have still got their role-block for the Night phase.

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As I said above to Adaham, why are you so fast to assume there is an Alpha wolf when the only way to know 100% that there is one is to be in the pack? Adaham may have used it jokingly, but your consideration of it here makes me wonder...

I also don't want Pilgrim and Nipple to think "It's okay, I don't need to vote, Llandy will change her mind and vote Sheep at the last minute" because that's not likely to happen. I firmly believe everybody needs to use their vote this time, and use it wisely.

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If you didn't notice on the last day, I am of the mindset that not voting is one of the worst things to do. Worry not.

Calodine said:

Even if I'd convinced Nipple to switch, we were one short. Xardob wasn't budging, Soot was asleep and woke up, and was already on Sheep anyway.

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You didn't need to convince me; there just weren't enough people at the end of the day for it, as you say.


As mentioned, I will re-read the thread and try to get an LoS up either tonight or tomorrow.

EDIT: Xardob just posted. My vote is not yours to "get."

Nipplemelter said:

Pharaoh Llandy said:

I've even toyed with the idea that Sheep is the Alpha wolf and Adaham, in a normal wolf role, is trying to throw himself onto the fire so that the wolves have still got their role-block for the Night phase.

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As I said above to Adaham, why are you so fast to assume there is an Alpha wolf when the only way to know 100% that there is one is to be in the pack? Adaham may have used it jokingly, but your consideration of it here makes me wonder...

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It would make sense given Adaham's sudden trek to martyrdom. I believe the whole purpose of this was to get attention drawn away from Sheep's impending lynch and onto himself. By posting that, I would think  that group would be split between continuing the hunt on Sheep and pursuing Adaham. Putting his LoS's together and the seemingly innocent vibe he gets from Sheep, he would make an interesting target to go after.

I am betting that Adaham thinks that the village would not suddenly turn on him, but rather split between him and Sheep, resulting in a no lynch and heading straight into Night 2.

Makes sense to me anyways.

Nipplemelter said:

Oh please, I'm perfectly fine with deciding who gets lynched and defending my actions the next day (if still alive) if it comes to that. I already explained that I wanted more discussion from everyone and to not have a Sheep wagon right after switching my vote to him (had that happened). In any case, it sounds like you are suggesting that if I voted for Sheep he would have been lynched, but since I didn't, Tuckles got lynched, which means my vote was the one that "made the decision" anyways.  From your posts earlier in the day, it seems that you wanted me to switch my vote over to Sheep. Why is that?

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I wanted you to make a decision. The way you played, you were fine with whoever was lynched. You claimed Sheep and Pilgrim were your top suspects, but never made a move against them. You kept your vote on Tuckles, but never attempted to convince anyone your vote was justified or the get others to vote with you.

ComingWinter said:

Nipplemelter said:

Pharaoh Llandy said:

I've even toyed with the idea that Sheep is the Alpha wolf and Adaham, in a normal wolf role, is trying to throw himself onto the fire so that the wolves have still got their role-block for the Night phase.

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As I said above to Adaham, why are you so fast to assume there is an Alpha wolf when the only way to know 100% that there is one is to be in the pack? Adaham may have used it jokingly, but your consideration of it here makes me wonder...

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It would make sense given Adaham's sudden trek to martyrdom. I believe the whole purpose of this was to get attention drawn away from Sheep's impending lynch and onto himself. By posting that, I would think  that group would be split between continuing the hunt on Sheep and pursuing Adaham. Putting his LoS's together and the seemingly innocent vibe he gets from Sheep, he would make an interesting target to go after.

I am betting that Adaham thinks that the village would not suddenly turn on him, but rather split between him and Sheep, resulting in a no lynch and heading straight into Night 2.

Makes sense to me anyways.

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There are a lot of better ways to deflect attention away from a packmate. Adaham would get a better result pushing for someone else lynch instead. You don't save a packmate by defending him or by attracting attention to the pack. You do it by convincing the village someone else is more suspicious.

Like I said, it's just a theory.

Oh, I forgot, Unvote, Vote Pilgrim.

Nipplemelter said:

Interesting phrasing with the use of "Alpha Wolf." The only way you would know if there is one is if you were actually a wolf. Slipping, Adaham?

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Really, Nipple? That's just poor play.

EDIT: Xardob just posted. My vote is not yours to "get."

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Won't stop me from trying. Would be just as happy to bully it from you, like I did with Cal last lynch. 

Xardob said:

And now let's go for the main topic of my post. I want to lynch Pilgrim. Why? Because I have a hunch (or two). So, before I actually make the case against him, I want to know under what circumstances would everyone be willing to vote him.

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Would you like to explain this?

I will, but first I want to know who would vote with me. Would you?

So what are you saying? You aren't going to vote for him unless everyone else makes a satisfactory case against him?

No, I'm not going to make the case unless there's a chance to get him lynched.

Besides, I've already voted him.

Xardob said:

No, I'm not going to make the case unless there's a chance to get him lynched.

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Xardob said:

Besides, I've already voted him.

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These two statements contradict each other. You aren't going to make a case for him unless there's a chance for him to get lynched but you've already voted for him. Your words.

Maybe. I prefer to view it as a sign of my intention to lynch Pilgrim. I'm basically saying 'I'm willing to lynch Pilgrim, is there any point to build a case against him or is everyone dead set on Sheep?'

And you're dodging the question. What do you think about Pilgrim? Would you consider voting him?

Xardob said:

I wanted you to make a decision. The way you played, you were fine with whoever was lynched. You claimed Sheep and Pilgrim were your top suspects, but never made a move against them. You kept your vote on Tuckles, but never attempted to convince anyone your vote was justified or the get others to vote with you.

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I already went over this.

Xardob said:

Really, Nipple? That's just poor play.

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It's true. Even if he is joking, nothing wrong with prodding to see how people are going to react.

Xardob said:

No, I'm not going to make the case unless there's a chance to get him lynched.

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Vote: Xardob

I'm not going to make the case against you unless there's a chance to get you lynched.

Well, that's one. I'm betting at least two more before I wake up tomorrow.

I think Pilgrim is shifty as ****, given my challenge to his LoS about me - he then disappears.

Honestly, both you and him hold #3 position as who to go after next, the first one being Sheep obviously and #2 goes to Adaham, again obviously. The only reason I switch my vote to Sheep is 1.) I think he's a wolf and 2.) I think Adaham is a wolf too but the odds of lynching Sheep are much higher.

So, back to Pilgrim. I cannot decide if he's being a dumb wolf or a dumb villager. There are only three wolves in the game, two of which I have named, but #3 is a bit harder to figure out.

You seem to tie yourself very neatly to Adaham here:

Xardob said:

Adaham, I'm up for lynching either Cal, Ativan or CW. Point who and I'll start thinking of something. Unless you want me to help you get lynched. I can be of some use there as well.

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You seem to imply you have no leads of your own but waiting for direction from the group and then deciding then. You previous posts about Pilgrim seem to agree with your implication.

I cannot simply disregard Pilgrim either, he has contributed seemingly nothing to the game, hiding only to surface to make random innocuous musings about people before disappearing again.

The only saving grace for you is you have been much more active and somewhat logical putting your game together.

So to answer your question, I don't know. He's well on his way to becoming wolf in my book but you waving your red flags everywhere aren't helping either.

Nipplemelter said:

Vote: Xardob

I'm not going to make the case against you unless there's a chance to get you lynched.

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I'm willing to lend you my vote. I'm pretty sure Ativan would be more than happy to lynch me. You only need to find two more vote. Easy enough.

Who else is willing to claim innocence by voting for themselves? I know I am! It's all the rage now.