Idea for Bytenwalda Submod

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Redleg

Redleg

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Old Guard
I have enjoyed the Brytenwalda mod more than any other and was thinking about making a submod that moves ahead about 200 years to around 825 A.D. This year marked the defeat of the Mercian King by Egbert, the King of Wessex, which  ended  the Mercian "supremacy" in England and saw the emergence of the expanded Wessex, which had acquired Sussex, Kent, and most of Essex.

In this submod, I would have many fewer factions, since between 636 A.D. and 825 A.D. there had been a great deal of expansion by the major Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex, and East Anglia and the disappearance of less powerful Angle and Saxon kingdoms.  Having fewer factions is attractive to me because my only issue with Brytenwalda is that there are so many factions and at times you may be at war with 6 or 8 of them simultaneously, even if you are not playing aggressively.

I had also thought of treating the independent "Welsh" kingdoms as a unitary faction, and this would counterbalance the larger remaining Angle and Saxon kingdoms.  In the north of Britain would be the Pictish Kingdom and just south of that the Kingdom of Strathclyde, which was still mainly of Britons.

Since the Irish had not been very active invading Britain in the early 9th Century, I probably would not have an Irish faction and would focus solely on Britain.  This would make modding the factions more simple, at least in theory because I would have fewer to deal with. 

Since the Viking raiders became more aggressive and organized in the early 9th Century, I would retain the Dena raiders but probably not the Frankish raiders.

So all told, I would have 7 factions- Wessex, Mercia, East Anglia, Northumbria, Strathclyde, Pictland, and Wales.  I realize that the Welsh still had independent kingdoms in the early 9th Century but from a military perspective they were beginning to coalesce into a coalition against Anglo-Saxon incursion.

My question to you modding experts is this:  is my plan for an 826 mod even feasible?  It seems to me that the most work will have to do with the factions, parties, and party templates and I will try to do the modding using the Brytenwalda 1.41 module system.  Any tips or advice will be welcome.  Once I am ready to begin I will certainly request permission from the Brytenwalda modders.
 
Okey dokey.  It will be slow work since I am fairly new to the module system editing stuff.  I have most of the ideas written down so at least the planning phase is pretty much finished.
 
Redleg said:
Okey dokey.  It will be slow work since I am fairly new to the module system editing stuff.  I have most of the ideas written down so at least the planning phase is pretty much finished.
Click to expand...

Make sure you include all the features in brytenwalda that made it great. If possible also make a way to be evil without pissing off every lord, and a way to be good without becoming 99 relation with everyone. Those are the features that brytenwalda still needs.
By evil I mean you turn bandit lairs into little towns, where they have goods you can buy and sell from, and recruit units from as well.
Brytenwalda added a trade function with bandit and dena lairs but they never have any resources, and you can't recruit from them, so it feels only half implemented, or rather lazily implemented.
-
Balance the renown gained from performing as well, getting 20 renown per performance every few seconds is broken. I would say remove land owners too, because it makes the game so easy that it's the same as using the cheat menu. Instead increase the income from towns and fiefs and force the gameplay around holding castles and towns to keep your income rather than getting unlimited wealth from land owners and dyeworks.
 
overtyped said:
Redleg said:
Okey dokey.  It will be slow work since I am fairly new to the module system editing stuff.  I have most of the ideas written down so at least the planning phase is pretty much finished.
Click to expand...

Make sure you include all the features in brytenwalda that made it great. If possible also make a way to be evil without pissing off every lord, and a way to be good without becoming 99 relation with everyone. Those are the features that brytenwalda still needs.
By evil I mean you turn bandit lairs into little towns, where they have goods you can buy and sell from, and recruit units from as well.
Brytenwalda added a trade function with bandit and dena lairs but they never have any resources, and you can't recruit from them, so it feels only half implemented, or rather lazily implemented.
-
Balance the renown gained from performing as well, getting 20 renown per performance every few seconds is broken. I would say remove land owners too, because it makes the game so easy that it's the same as using the cheat menu. Instead increase the income from towns and fiefs and force the gameplay around holding castles and towns to keep your income rather than getting unlimited wealth from land owners and dyeworks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the ideas. Since I will be modding the v 1.41 module, the features of the original game will be included.  Once I have the factions and parties parts ironed out and tested for functionality, I will likely implement several of the TML tweaks and other changes that I consider appropriate.  There have been some interesting submods posted that change various aspects of the game that seem to make sense.
 
Alfredthegreat said:
You should do a danish invasion.
Click to expand...

Yes- I did want to increase the number and size of Dena raiders but it would be cool to allow them to conquer territories as well.  That will have to be phase 2 after I redo the main factions and parties.

I will probably tinker a bit with the troop trees, especially the lower-tier troops, since by the early 9th century the notion of the "general levy" with poorly-armed angle and saxon peasants had started to give way to smaller levies having better equipped soldiers.  I don't know whether that was true of the Welsh or the Picts, but for the sake of balance I may need to better equip their bottom tier troops too.

The Brytenwalda creators and other modders have done such a fine job building this wonderful mod and I am grateful for it.  There are many great features in the mod that make it immersive like few others. 
 
Redleg said:
I have enjoyed the Brytenwalda mod more than any other and was thinking about making a submod that moves ahead about 200 years to around 825 A.D. This year marked the defeat of the Mercian King by Egbert, the King of Wessex, which  ended  the Mercian "supremacy" in England and saw the emergence of the expanded Wessex, which had acquired Sussex, Kent, and most of Essex.

In this submod, I would have many fewer factions, since between 636 A.D. and 825 A.D. there had been a great deal of expansion by the major Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex, and East Anglia and the disappearance of less powerful Angle and Saxon kingdoms.  Having fewer factions is attractive to me because my only issue with Brytenwalda is that there are so many factions and at times you may be at war with 6 or 8 of them simultaneously, even if you are not playing aggressively.

I had also thought of treating the independent "Welsh" kingdoms as a unitary faction, and this would counterbalance the larger remaining Angle and Saxon kingdoms.  In the north of Britain would be the Pictish Kingdom and just south of that the Kingdom of Strathclyde, which was still mainly of Britons.

Since the Irish had not been very active invading Britain in the early 9th Century, I probably would not have an Irish faction and would focus solely on Britain.  This would make modding the factions more simple, at least in theory because I would have fewer to deal with. 

Since the Viking raiders became more aggressive and organized in the early 9th Century, I would retain the Dena raiders but probably not the Frankish raiders.

So all told, I would have 7 factions- Wessex, Mercia, East Anglia, Northumbria, Strathclyde, Pictland, and Wales.  I realize that the Welsh still had independent kingdoms in the early 9th Century but from a military perspective they were beginning to coalesce into a coalition against Anglo-Saxon incursion.

My question to you modding experts is this:  is my plan for an 826 mod even feasible?  It seems to me that the most work will have to do with the factions, parties, and party templates and I will try to do the modding using the Brytenwalda 1.41 module system.  Any tips or advice will be welcome.  Once I am ready to begin I will certainly request permission from the Brytenwalda modders.
Click to expand...

Do you know how to actually code though? i got some pretty unique ideas, like non linear renown scaling, as opposed to set scaling. Well, i actually ranted about all this in a thread.

overtyped said:
Idibil said:
overtyped said:
Would anyone know which trigger is used for ai lord and town/castle troop experience?
There is a guide for the native on how to change it, however brytenwalda is a total conversion.

I thought it would be cool to make ai lords and castles to only start with recruits, but the exp rate currently is not sufficient. :sad:
Click to expand...

You can change this as native  :grin:
Click to expand...


yes.. anything can be changed, even the rent income from fiefs and towns.
What I currently do to make up for the slow recruit upgrades on npcs is giving them a ton more troops. So instead of like 200 decent troops on an npc, he will have like 500 fodder troops.
Same goes for towns. They upgrade even slower than npcs do.
They have like a garrison of 800-1000. I like that it's more realistic, but fights take forever. But if you enjoy huge bloodbaths like I do, then it isn't such a big deal.
Edit: I gotta say it's entertaining fighting colossal armies of pure fodder recruits. If an army has not fought in a long time, he would have some stronger units. So the way this system works, the longer they don't fight the stronger they get. It reminds me of something I heard some time ago. 3 starving lions in a cage won't fight, because they know if two fight each other and wear down their strength, then the third lion will be the victor. So they sit and wait.
-
There is so much amazing things that could be done with warband that people don't even think about.
Like what about basing ai lords upgrade rate for their troops to the amount of income they gain. There can be balancing problems, like one nation getting out of control and taking out all others, but you can counter that by making countries more likely to war with larger nations to stifle their growth, and when they shrink, they are more inclined to make peace. However one nation could still take out all others, and isn't that fun in and of itself?
-
The way the system works currently, npcs armies stay stagnant at around the same size, because they don't gain renown like the player does. So eventually the player can overpower all lords by ending up with 2000 troops, when they can only field armies of like 300. This kind of ending leaves me with an empty feeling.
But what if .... Lords gain a certain amount of renown a week based on their total income. Like say... 10 renown a week for a fief, 15 for a castle and 25 for a town. If a lord takes over several cities and holds them for a long period of time, why should he stay at the same power as every other lord?
What if.. player renown scales down based on how much you have. For example when you are just starting with 1 renown you have a 1-2 party size to renown ratio. Then eventually ending up around 2000 renown being 100-1 ratio.
This would make it feel like you aren't just brute force grinding your way to beating  the game. The game would shift from grinding to holding castles to reap the renown and bonus party size benefits from holding them, and since getting bigger would make more nations want to stunt your growth, then that would push the game in an even a cooler direction.
Lets think bigger though. Population has been implemented some time ago for a few mods, where you can see the population of a town.
What if we made use of that. You could have demographics of men- women- children- and the elderly. When you recruit from a town, then the amount of men in a town goes down. However in order for that to be relevant, you would first have to bind yourself to a nation at the start of the game, where you can only recruit from them. So you would think twice before sending all the men off to battle. You could damage your own nations work force economy, perhaps increasing how much it costs to recruit, because of supply and demand.
Anyways, I ranted off there a bit.. You probably won't read all this though XD It's just the game seems so short sighted to me, and no coders seem to care at all about warband, so i always seem to have a lot to say about it's short comings >.>
Click to expand...
 
Overtyped,
I don't know much about coding but I have had some success with making some small changes to the modules or to the text files.  Non-linear renown would be cool if you could figure out how to do it. 

For my part, I would like to see an upper limit placed on how many troops a party can have, including the player party.  I just wish I had more time to mod and to play and to accomplish stuff at work. 
 
Redleg said:
Overtyped,
I don't know much about coding but I have had some success with making some small changes to the modules or to the text files.  Non-linear renown would be cool if you could figure out how to do it. 

For my part, I would like to see an upper limit placed on how many troops a party can have, including the player party.  I just wish I had more time to mod and to play and to accomplish stuff at work.
Click to expand...

Upper limit is a bad idea. Dimishing returns is the only way to go without making the player feel like he isn't progressing.
 
Redleg said:
Alfredthegreat said:
You should do a danish invasion.
Click to expand...

Yes- I did want to increase the number and size of Dena raiders but it would be cool to allow them to conquer territories as well.  That will have to be phase 2 after I redo the main factions and parties.

I will probably tinker a bit with the troop trees, especially the lower-tier troops, since by the early 9th century the notion of the "general levy" with poorly-armed angle and saxon peasants had started to give way to smaller levies having better equipped soldiers.  I don't know whether that was true of the Welsh or the Picts, but for the sake of balance I may need to better equip their bottom tier troops too.

The Brytenwalda creators and other modders have done such a fine job building this wonderful mod and I am grateful for it.  There are many great features in the mod that make it immersive like few others.
Click to expand...
I say you create a how danish faction that comes from the seas. they  should be friendly to the dena, huowever, have their own king, and in a huge campaign stuff, with vassals. and a new troop tree. Give them best infantry. That is, if you can do it.
 
Alfredthegreat said:
Redleg said:
Alfredthegreat said:
You should do a danish invasion.
Click to expand...

Yes- I did want to increase the number and size of Dena raiders but it would be cool to allow them to conquer territories as well.  That will have to be phase 2 after I redo the main factions and parties.

I will probably tinker a bit with the troop trees, especially the lower-tier troops, since by the early 9th century the notion of the "general levy" with poorly-armed angle and saxon peasants had started to give way to smaller levies having better equipped soldiers.  I don't know whether that was true of the Welsh or the Picts, but for the sake of balance I may need to better equip their bottom tier troops too.

The Brytenwalda creators and other modders have done such a fine job building this wonderful mod and I am grateful for it.  There are many great features in the mod that make it immersive like few others.
Click to expand...
I say you create a how danish faction that comes from the seas. they  should be friendly to the dena, huowever, have their own king, and in a huge campaign stuff, with vassals. and a new troop tree. Give them best infantry. That is, if you can do it.
Click to expand...

I might do this at some point after I get the initial phase of changes done.  In 825 the Vikings in Britain were mainly still hit-and-run raiders rather than an army seeking land of its own.  As it is in the original game, I think the Dena raiders are already quite powerful infantry, even relative to the Angles and Saxons, who were no slouches.  When I mod the Dena raiders, I will give them both lower and higher end troops rather than all elite.
 
I wanted to add that I am currently working on modifying the campaign map to provide less rugged battle fields.  First, I used Thorgrim's map editor to lower the z vertices and absolute height of all the points.  That left hilly areas but they are less rugged in appearance.  Those changes didn't seem to make much of a difference in the battle terrain as I was still getting some really hellish looking battlefields even in relatively flat areas. 

I then made some changes to the scenes.txt file using Swyter's online map generator.  That seemed to help a little bit. 

Finally, in the section of the map that I am working in, I changed the mountain terrain squares to steppe squares.  That had a huge impact on the hilliness of the battle fields and produced fields with more rolling hills that steep inclines.  On the campaign map it also permits troops to move through those areas now instead of making them go around from moving.  The disadvantage, from a reality standpoint, is that on the campaign map, troops can move through the more hilly areas with no less speed than on flat ground.

The next step will be to finish the rest of the map and see how it works.  Once I have done this, if anyone would like to try out the modded map, I would be happy to post it.
 
Hey Tocan,
Nice job on your mod.  I like it a lot- you included a lot of good minimods in it and did a nice job with the troops trees, factions, etc.  I just wish the bandit gangs weren't so tough or large!
 
I have completed my modification of the Polished Brytenwalda map.  The battle fields seem much less rugged and extreme.  Now I get nice rolling hills in the hilly parts of the map and smoother but not completely flat terrain in the flatter parts of the map.  My list of changes:
1.  Lowered the z vertices for all points.
2.  Lowered the absolute height of all points.  The hills and mountains are still seen on the campaign map but they are less rugged.
3.  Changed all mountain textures to plains texture.  The upside is that the battle fields are less rugged and crazy.  The downside is that you can move across hills and mountains without impedance.
4.  I haven't noticed any glitches or problems in any parts of the map, including Ireland.

If anyone would like to try it out, I will post the map.txt and parties.txt.  How do I post them here?
 
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