Prestige cost of troops vs prestige decay

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Lord Rust

Grandmaster Knight
I'm about to launch into another campaign of PoP, but I'm wondering about the whole prestige thing. I've never cared much about knighthood orders before however I intend to this time. If I recall correctly they cost prestige to make, now while it doesn't remove your prestige it counts how much prestige you've spent vs how much you've gained.

What happens when my spent prestige hits my total prestige? Given prestige decay, this will happen sooner or later. At which point I would have to grind quite a few battles to gain the prestige required to train one knight. Thus if you were to use your knights in combat, you would lose them faster than you could regain the prestige capital to replace them.

Let's ignore how über you can make them, they will never be immortal and a couched jatu lance is a couched jatu lance. How do you get around this? can you? Or is this just a big glaring issue with the whole system?
 
El-Diablito said:
I'm about to launch into another campaign of PoP, but I'm wondering about the whole prestige thing. I've never cared much about knighthood orders before however I intend to this time. If I recall correctly they cost prestige to make, now while it doesn't remove your prestige it counts how much prestige you've spent vs how much you've gained.

What happens when my spent prestige hits my total prestige? Given prestige decay, this will happen sooner or later. At which point I would have to grind quite a few battles to gain the prestige required to train one knight. Thus if you were to use your knights in combat, you would lose them faster than you could regain the prestige capital to replace them.

Let's ignore how über you can make them, they will never be immortal and a couched jatu lance is a couched jatu lance. How do you get around this? can you? Or is this just a big glaring issue with the whole system?

Your CKO troops are generated automatically at the locations where the orders are based in addition to spending prestige to cultivate nobles into this unique unit.
Ergo.. you never run out of potential replacements, it just may take a while to replace them.

Regards,

Saxondragon
 
Don't suppose you could link me to an overview of items you can equip them with, if such a thing exists? If not, could you just tell me if, as far as you know, there are a few blunt options for prisoner farming?

Glad to see you're still active on the forums btw Saxon, this mod really is an absolute gem. Don't suppose you could give me a quick update on what you and the team are doing these days? Are we likely to see the next version or any updates to PoP you think? As I gathered, things had wound down and I can't say I blame any of you. It's hard time consuming work after all and it's impressive you put this much together.
 
El-Diablito said:
Don't suppose you could link me to an overview of items you can equip them with, if such a thing exists? If not, could you just tell me if, as far as you know, there are a few blunt options for prisoner farming?

Glad to see you're still active on the forums btw Saxon, this mod really is an absolute gem. Don't suppose you could give me a quick update on what you and the team are doing these days? Are we likely to see the next version or any updates to PoP you think? As I gathered, things had wound down and I can't say I blame any of you. It's hard time consuming work after all and it's impressive you put this much together.

No such link exists unfortunately.  and almost all weapons can be used by your cko's.  The exception may be some specialty weapons.

Yes, it is hard work and the demands of real life and making a living have reduced the ability to spend so much time on such leisure activities.  I check the forums usually once a day but rarely interject myself due to time constraints.

There is on the preliminary planning phases for a future POP.. actually a full game not just a mod.  It is quite a ways out and in the discussion phases on platform, technology and scope right now.  There are many options. 

In the mean time my own development team, which includes some of the folks who were on this team, have been working on commercial offering in our collective spare time.  It is pre-alpha now and you can look in on the concept at www.stariumxcv.com..  I personally believe we are redefining the concept and quality of Web Based games with this offering, and I am interested in seeing how it is plays out.

Kindest regards,

Saxondragon


 
saxondragon said:
El-Diablito said:
Don't suppose you could link me to an overview of items you can equip them with, if such a thing exists? If not, could you just tell me if, as far as you know, there are a few blunt options for prisoner farming?

Glad to see you're still active on the forums btw Saxon, this mod really is an absolute gem. Don't suppose you could give me a quick update on what you and the team are doing these days? Are we likely to see the next version or any updates to PoP you think? As I gathered, things had wound down and I can't say I blame any of you. It's hard time consuming work after all and it's impressive you put this much together.

No such link exists unfortunately.  and almost all weapons can be used by your cko's.  The exception may be some specialty weapons.

Yes, it is hard work and the demands of real life and making a living have reduced the ability to spend so much time on such leisure activities.  I check the forums usually once a day but rarely interject myself due to time constraints.

There is on the preliminary planning phases for a future POP.. actually a full game not just a mod.  It is quite a ways out and in the discussion phases on platform, technology and scope right now.  There are many options. 

In the mean time my own development team, which includes some of the folks who were on this team, have been working on commercial offering in our collective spare time.  It is pre-alpha now and you can look in on the concept at www.stariumxcv.com..  I personally believe we are redefining the concept and quality of Web Based games with this offering, and I am interested in seeing how it is plays out.

Kindest regards,

Saxondragon

Given that both fire and sword and that pirate mod seems to have sold well, I for one think there could be a case made for a commercial version of PoP based on the Warband engine. With kickstarter and what not you might be able to get the required funding for it as well. I'd spend money on it and I have no doubt quite a few others would too.

I imagine Taleworlds would be happy to back people with a track record like PoP's as well so given that they are licencing the tech it should be possible. You could probably use a lot of mod resources as well, shouldn't be too hard to pay the various mod makers a fee for some of the things they've put in the public domain, have them tweak it a bit.

I could be wrong of course, but having bought with fire and sword, I feel I would have spent my money better if that was the free one and PoP had cost me money. Regardless of what happens good luck.
 
You could always change the battle size to smaller and only take a small elite group of units with you and fight some of the spawns that have grown in size due to liberating captives if you find renown/prestige farming to be a challenge in the later game, since it is based on the sizd of your army vs the size of the opposing army. You'll get more renown/prestige per combat round this way.
 
antlan87 said:
You could always change the battle size to smaller and only take a small elite group of units with you and fight some of the spawns that have grown in size due to liberating captives if you find renown/prestige farming to be a challenge in the later game, since it is based on the sizd of your army vs the size of the opposing army. You'll get more renown/prestige per combat round this way.

I have it set to 700 and the only reason I don't have more, is because the game goes bonkers in a siege (siege scenes just aren't large enough to fit more men in, it becomes a buggy mess).

But yes, that will be my plan, it's doable without a smaller battle size as well.
 
If you got enough honor the limiting factor won´t be prestige, it will be upkeep and recruíting/upgrade fees.


Not to mention that you´ll get a lot of free troops of the knighthood order quests and telling you from experience that you won´t need more than a total of  400 ckho troops through a long playthrough (high surgery skill granted).

For your other questions, please refer to the knighthood order faq created by MV, it should answer a lot of your questions.
 
El-Diablito said:
antlan87 said:
You could always change the battle size to smaller and only take a small elite group of units with you and fight some of the spawns that have grown in size due to liberating captives if you find renown/prestige farming to be a challenge in the later game, since it is based on the sizd of your army vs the size of the opposing army. You'll get more renown/prestige per combat round this way.

I have it set to 700 and the only reason I don't have more, is because the game goes bonkers in a siege (siege scenes just aren't large enough to fit more men in, it becomes a buggy mess).

But yes, that will be my plan, it's doable without a smaller battle size as well.
Aye for me it gets really buggy at 509, there are so many men in such tiny little castles..
 
Bmen said:
El-Diablito said:
antlan87 said:
You could always change the battle size to smaller and only take a small elite group of units with you and fight some of the spawns that have grown in size due to liberating captives if you find renown/prestige farming to be a challenge in the later game, since it is based on the sizd of your army vs the size of the opposing army. You'll get more renown/prestige per combat round this way.

I have it set to 700 and the only reason I don't have more, is because the game goes bonkers in a siege (siege scenes just aren't large enough to fit more men in, it becomes a buggy mess).

But yes, that will be my plan, it's doable without a smaller battle size as well.
Aye for me it gets really buggy at 509, there are so many men in such tiny little castles..

I did have 2.000 men on a battlefield once though. Had to mod the battle field to fit it properly but it was glorious.

When Bannerlord is out and I get a new computer...well, I'm going to make some EPIC battles.
 
El-Diablito said:
I did have 2.000 men on a battlefield once though. Had to mod the battle field to fit it properly but it was glorious.

When Bannerlord is out and I get a new computer...well, I'm going to make some EPIC battles.

splooge
 
noosers said:
If you got enough honor the limiting factor won´t be prestige, it will be upkeep and recruíting/upgrade fees.


Not to mention that you´ll get a lot of free troops of the knighthood order quests and telling you from experience that you won´t need more than a total of  400 ckho troops through a long playthrough (high surgery skill granted).

For your other questions, please refer to the knighthood order faq created by MV, it should answer a lot of your questions.

Not true, if the game gets long enough, no amount of honor will save you. The longest running game I've played was at around 1500 days. By about 1k days my prestige 'stablized' at around 10k and no amount of fighting can get it above that. For reference, I was at war with all of the nations all at once (I made an effort to keep them all alive but fighting in order to extend the game). I was getting about 50-100 renown per day from all the castle defenses and sieges I was doing (taking a single castle lands you about 15 renown, I was taking 3+ a day). Your prestige decay so fast that even getting 1k+ every two weeks is not enough to push it above 11-12k.
 
If you grind 1k prestige per two weeks thats 1000 new points to be spent on honor troops.  That should be more than enought to cover any losses you may have had.

Decay is 0,5% per week, so 12k leads to 600 lost rekown per week, which is pretty much near the obvious and playable maximum for non masochists when decay is larger than the possible gain per week - if you play on regular 150 battlesize.

It would be higher if you play on smaller battlesizes or lower if you play with the battlesizer mod and increase the amount of troops over the regular MnB 150 heads skirmishes.

Most reknown is usually grinded of field battles, sieges gain very little prestige wise compared to the amounts you can carry off lord and unique battles.

But since reknown and prestige are handled differently you´ll gain 600 fresh prestige to be spent on honor troops each week. Just add up your used prestige and your actual reknown, it should total to more than your current reknown as prestige does not decay.

And even then, 12k prestige spent on honor troops would purchase you something like 240-1000 knighthood order troops (if my memory serves correctly and prices range from 50-12 prestige for zero to 250 honor per head)

So in any of my games and experience money´s the limiting factor, not reknown. I even dare to say that it was designed to be limited by money rather than reknown beeing the one who supported far higher costs in money and prestige ever since they were invented.

So be glad for both Treebeards and MV´s soothing palms :wink:

And a total 1000 knights of the anything is more than suitable to ROFLSstomp anything and beyond on the map. IF you can afford the upkeep.
 
noosers said:
If you grind 1k prestige per two weeks thats 1000 new points to be spent on honor troops.  That should be more than enought to cover any losses you may have had.

Decay is 0,5% per week, so 12k leads to 600 lost rekown per week, which is pretty much near the obvious and playable maximum for non masochists when decay is larger than the possible gain per week - if you play on regular 150 battlesize.

It would be higher if you play on smaller battlesizes or lower if you play with the battlesizer mod and increase the amount of troops over the regular MnB 150 heads skirmishes.

Most reknown is usually grinded of field battles, sieges gain very little prestige wise compared to the amounts you can carry off lord and unique battles.

But since reknown and prestige are handled differently you´ll gain 600 fresh prestige to be spent on honor troops each week. Just add up your used prestige and your actual reknown, it should total to more than your current reknown as prestige does not decay.

And even then, 12k prestige spent on honor troops would purchase you something like 240-1000 knighthood order troops (if my memory serves correctly and prices range from 50-12 prestige for zero to 250 honor per head)

So in any of my games and experience money´s the limiting factor, not reknown. I even dare to say that it was designed to be limited by money rather than reknown beeing the one who supported far higher costs in money and prestige ever since they were invented.

So be glad for both Treebeards and MV´s soothing palms :wink:

And a total 1000 knights of the anything is more than suitable to ROFLSstomp anything and beyond on the map. IF you can afford the upkeep.

No, if you spend 12k worth of renown, it takes you a week just to get back to where you've last spent it. So you can never have any more troops once you've spent about 11-12k renown in total.

For example:

Wk1: 12000 renown, earn 600, spend all of it. now total spent renown 12600
Wk2: You need to earn 600 renown just to get back to the amount you've spent already. so you need 12601 renown to spend any more renown on knights.

For any reasonable player, you basically stop recruiting knights at around 9-10k renown spent, since you'd normally only get a couple of fights a week. my 'average' renown earned in most of my games is something like 150-200 a week, not enough to keep up with the renown decay.

This is why you spend your money and blue cabbage on setting up chapters early on so you don't have to use renown to get knights all the time.
 
I´ve ceased drafting knights altogether in my current game (1,5k+ days) as I´m strong enough to destroy anything on the map even withou using excessively amounts of honor troops, despite having like 500+ noble recruits in the pool.

650+ party size is enough to smack anything and Eyegrim back into the netherworld.

I reckon anyone hits the point of no return where the PC is so dominating he can steamroll anything far earlier than the point where reknown decay/honor troop attrition may become a recognizable problem.

And even before any player hits the Might Spike he´ll be broke if he fields too many elite units. Which is the reason why the PC shouldn´t found too many knighthood orders and do something useful with blue cabbages, like hiding them securely and comforting and fondling them in those long, cold and dark nights in the treasure chamber. :wink:
 
The reason I ask is because I intend to make my custom knights slavers. Blunt weapons for mass prisoner farming. I do this in other mods where there are cavalry units with blunt weapons and boy, let me tell you. You don't lack for cash!
 
noosers said:
I´ve ceased drafting knights altogether in my current game (1,5k+ days) as I´m strong enough to destroy anything on the map even withou using excessively amounts of honor troops, despite having like 500+ noble recruits in the pool.

650+ party size is enough to smack anything and Eyegrim back into the netherworld.

I reckon anyone hits the point of no return where the PC is so dominating he can steamroll anything far earlier than the point where reknown decay/honor troop attrition may become a recognizable problem.

And even before any player hits the Might Spike he´ll be broke if he fields too many elite units. Which is the reason why the PC shouldn´t found too many knighthood orders and do something useful with blue cabbages, like hiding them securely and comforting and fondling them in those long, cold and dark nights in the treasure chamber. :wink:

1.5k+ days that's the spirit! (i am close to 1.9k)

I have been grinding enemy Lords non-stop with a party of 70 (companions + CKO) and just hit 7500 renown. The few losses of honor troops (14+ surgery) are easily recovered from the 2 chapters and some inductions from rescued D'Shar Noble Cavalry.

Trying to win as a D'Shar vassal and surprisingly the map is still kinda balanced with non-stop wars going on 24/7.

I guess when i am bored i ll spend my remaining ~ 5.5k prestige, take ~ 450 Knights and roflstomp everything moving on the map.
 
shoshuro said:
noosers said:
I´ve ceased drafting knights altogether in my current game (1,5k+ days) as I´m strong enough to destroy anything on the map even withou using excessively amounts of honor troops, despite having like 500+ noble recruits in the pool.

650+ party size is enough to smack anything and Eyegrim back into the netherworld.

I reckon anyone hits the point of no return where the PC is so dominating he can steamroll anything far earlier than the point where reknown decay/honor troop attrition may become a recognizable problem.

And even before any player hits the Might Spike he´ll be broke if he fields too many elite units. Which is the reason why the PC shouldn´t found too many knighthood orders and do something useful with blue cabbages, like hiding them securely and comforting and fondling them in those long, cold and dark nights in the treasure chamber. :wink:

1.5k+ days that's the spirit! (i am close to 1.9k)

I have been grinding enemy Lords non-stop with a party of 70 (companions + CKO) and just hit 7500 renown. The few losses of honor troops (14+ surgery) are easily recovered from the 2 chapters and some inductions from rescued D'Shar Noble Cavalry.

Trying to win as a D'Shar vassal and surprisingly the map is still kinda balanced with non-stop wars going on 24/7.

I guess when i am bored i ll spend my remaining ~ 5.5k prestige, take ~ 450 Knights and roflstomp everything moving on the map.

How do you have 14+ surgery?
 
I just realised I can easily counter this by tweaking the maximum prestige gain cap per battle. Is that going to have any other major effects though that might be game breaking? I'm not thinking bugs, I'm thinking game perks that'd make it too easy.
 
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